Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[Bassmaster_Vol]

He's already started to toughen them up with Wrench Therapy.

😂. Won't be any guy being lazy with a man named Rock in the room!

 

[bignewt]

New starting QB. New system and terminology. Even playing round for all QBs. May the best man win.

If CBJ wasn't on the hot seat I would agree with you. It lost Fulmer his job.

 

[JacketVol]

GE built many of the TVA reactors that power East Tennessee.

Hope they do a better job with them than with the fridges.

 

[BaldBiker]

Come on. "All you need to do is call better plays and be more aggressive." Tell me how that's not an oversimplification. How about, "All you need to do is score more points"? Was DeBord calling plays from the Not Quite Good Enough playbook? I mean, I think that's what all OCs probably strive for, to call better plays. It's not a given that it will happen.

He's not wrong, per se, but it doesn't happen just like that.

If you don't agree that sentence is vast oversimplification on its face, that's fine, but we aren't going to agree on this point, and I'm not going to try to convince you. Probably best to just move on.

By "call better plays" I assumed he meant stop being so predictable in what you are going to call. That's not an oversimplification. It's simply what needs to be done. Regardless of who the play caller is. We had a very similar problem with our last OC. He seemed to really enjoy calling jet sweeps. Other teams really enjoyed us running them all the time too, because they were ready for it.

I was never trying to convince you to differ your opinion. As I stated in my post, I was just curious as to why you felt differently. What else you thought needed to be changed besides what Newt had said, because I felt he was pretty spot on in his remark. Wasn't intended to turn in to a snarkfest. :hi:

 

[utvolmaniac]

If CBJ wasn't on the hot seat I would agree with you. It lost Fulmer his job.

If 2017 is anything like 2016, it will be the defense that could cost CBJ his job, not the offense.

First and foremost, you have to stop the run. DT's have to stay healthy. LB's have to make plays.

Love Kirkland, but if we were to ever run a conventional 4-3, he should be on the outside. Most of his tackles at the line of scrimmage were on the outside. He has great pursuit. However, most of his tackles when the ball was run between the tackles were 8-10 yards down the field. We need an inside LB who can step into the gaps and make the plays at or near the line of scrimmage.

That, and of course, we all know the DB play MUST improve.

 

[SSVol]

But what are her intentions? Does she really want to hire the best AD or is there an agenda?

To me it isn't about "ability to hire the right person", but rather is that what she is really after?

No clue. Contrary to those who have cast me into the "it'll all work out" pumper role, I'm not making predictions, I'm just pushing back against the illogical hand wringing that says she can't get it right because she would like to see UT become academically relevant. She may well stink it up and she may well be completely out of her depth, but up to this point, I don't think there is enough established truth to make that call.

There are those is business who believe in "hire slowly, fire quickly". If you do the prior, you tend to do less of the latter. Last time I checked, we actually still had an AD, so we are trying to fill a position that isn't actually open yet.

And for the record: Pessimists are the "half empty" guys and optimists are the "half full", right? Well, I'm an engineer, and engineers are generally neither. We're more the "glass is twice the size it needs to be" group. I refer to them as pragmatists, and I happen to be a positive leaning, forward thinking, pragmatist. Is that a pumper? Compared to some of the "glass is half empty, cracked, and leaking through a hole in the bottom" crowd, then perhaps. I've just lived long enough to realize that it costs me nothing to focus on the more positive outcome, and it makes me happier to do so.

 

[BaldBiker]

Nice conversation on the offense here. Do think Oline development will continue to be an issue. Pass protection seemed better this year but we didn't show the ability to take over games in the 4th quarter on the LOS down the stretch.

I agree with the O-line statement, but it is getting better. Both pass pro and run pro seemed better this year to me. Still not where we want it to be, but at least it is improving. I think, short of a set-back, our O-line could actually take the next step and be good next year.

 

[SSVol]

Hope they do a better job with them than with the fridges.

GE also built the ones in Fukushima, so...

 

[bignewt]

If 2017 is anything like 2016, it will be the defense that could cost CBJ his job, not the offense.

First and foremost, you have to stop the run. DT's have to stay healthy. LB's have to make plays.

Love Kirkland, but if we were to ever run a conventional 4-3, he should be on the outside. Most of his tackles at the line of scrimmage were on the outside. He has great pursuit. However, most of his tackles when the ball was run between the tackles were 8-10 yards down the field. We need an inside LB who can step into the gaps and make the plays at or near the line of scrimmage.

That, and of course, we all know the DB play MUST improve.

That is why I am saying the offense should remain largely intact.

 

[Volnukem]

GE also built the ones in Fukushima, so...

I know you are saying this in jest, but it irks me when people skip over the fact that the Tsunami that hit the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was the largest to ever hit Japan in recorded history. It killed over 150,000 people along the coast. Only a handful of those died at the Power Plant.

 

[amavol2]

The only problem with the offense is that we seem to try and go vanilla from the start sometimes and it bogs it down.

North Texas, Ohio, App State, etc.

That's a HC thing and not an OC thing IMO. OC's want to score points.

You get it, this is why an internal hire will be more of the same. Debord went conservative when he was told to. I believe this is what is meant by the "right fit".

 

[JacketVol]

Observations. JMO.

Rock G - Rams haven't been much, but then Jeff Fisher was just fired so there's that. Nobody can deny they are not physically strong or explosive at some positions. They just need roster development and good schemes. Rock helped develop a 13-3 with GB in 2007 in his 3 years with them. He helped develop the first 3 years in a 5 year run in the playoffs for Seattle including a 13-3 in 2005 when they lost in the SB with Holmgren. He was with them for 6 years until going to GB. He's from Kentucky and went to Morehead, so I'm guessing he's probably closing out his career more near to home. Power and explosiveness guy - but most claim that. "Rock" solid hire IMO.

Jimmy Johnson always said to design your team to beat the best opponent on your schedule. Bama. Power and explosiveness, not overloaded with gazelles and trick offenses. How did Louisville finish out with that? Also, smaller speed guys wear down in the second half on D. Ziti has been pounding the posts about having enough big, strong DT's. That also applies at LB, hence Bituli's promotion and Ignont's recruitment. Ziti's right and Jimmy Johnson always did that with DT's and LB's. On O we know Butch loves the run game and set up his scheme for it to thrive. Now he needs the players developed that can accomplish it. In a DT QB offense you better have a good DT QB coach, whether the OC does it or somebody else. I disagree with Butch in recruiting a million WR's. A solid rotation of 6-7 are plenty when you plan to run the ball close to 60% of the time - which Butch does. That means you recruit 9-10, not a dozen. Use those 2-3 scholarships on more DT's and big LB's. You can always run more two TE sets with the passing TE(s) in the slot(s) if there are significant injuries.

If Scott's the guy as OC, I can live with it. Not overly enthusiastic about it because I am not totally sold on Butch's O and that's what his hire would mean - just tweaks and play calling changes. I will never be a fan of wasting plays, time, and injuries on middle school level gap scheme runs that are not going to win games in the SEC. Which was what they made Hurd run over and over. Yes, RB's like Kelly and Kamara can make more with their jukes and quickness, but they also take a pounding in the process. If the D does its job that play design will only work occasionally when the RB is lined up in the pistol and can have enough time see how the gaps develop. Even with that, the D also has more time to outflank the O-line and cave the play from the outside. The counter to their crashing down is the man in motion and jet sweep stuff for which Jake was famous. He was only responding with what Butch gave him in that system, which may have contributed to why he left for the NFL. Four years of watching it has been one of the most frustrating things to watch as a lifelong Vol fan.

FWIW, David Blackburn would know all this.

Yes he would. Thanks David

 

[BaldBiker]

You get it, this is why an internal hire will be more of the same. Debord went conservative when he was told to. I believe this is what is meant by the "right fit".

We don't actually know this. It's an assumption made by a lot, but we don't know it as fact. Has DeBord come out and said this?

 

[Catbone]

The main reason the offense was record breaking is because Dobbs making something after nothing constantly. DeBord wasn't great or terrible imo. The lack of deep balls to Jennings and Malone are mind boggling

 

[seaofORANGE22]

Rock is a killer name for a strength coach

 

[Dust10]

The main reason the offense was record breaking is because Dobbs making something after nothing constantly. DeBord wasn't great or terrible imo. The lack of deep balls to Jennings and Malone are mind boggling

While true, we also had a ridiculous number of lost fumbles. The 2 sort of cancel each other out, imo.

 

[amavol2]

We don't actually know this. It's an assumption made by a lot, but we don't know it as fact. Has DeBord come out and said this?

Debord won't come out and say anything, Butch hired him when no one else would. OCs want to score as many points as they can, Fulmer pulled the reigns on Cut at the end of games, I remember hearing Cut say Fulmer would just say let's get physical. OCs job is to score points;

Until someone tells them to stop.

 

[SSVol]

I know you are saying this in jest, but it irks me when people skip over the fact that the Tsunami that hit the Fukushima-Daiichi plant was the largest to ever hit Japan in recorded history. It killed over 150,000 people along the coast. Only a handful of those died at the Power Plant.

It was jest. Sorry if it offended you, since I'm guessing you are in the business. I certainly wasn't making light of the tsumami, only that the reactors around here are of a similar design and vintage to those in Japan. My father-in-law retired from TVA and happened to spend most of his career working on electrical systems in GE BWRs throughout the southeast. I'm on your side.

 

[BaldBiker]

The main reason the offense was record breaking is because Dobbs making something after nothing constantly. DeBord wasn't great or terrible imo. The lack of deep balls to Jennings and Malone are mind boggling

I remember Josh saying in an interview after the MCB that that was actually part of the game plan...and that it was always pretty much a part of the game plan throughout the season. It was an aspect that was left up to him a lot of the time, as the man on the field, to decide (based off formation and what happened after the snap) as to whether he ran the ball or not.

Would have liked to have seen more deep balls too, but I was happy that the ones we did see this year were at least caught for the most part. That was a major improvement over last year.

 

[seaofORANGE22]

The main reason the offense was record breaking is because Dobbs making something after nothing constantly. DeBord wasn't great or terrible imo. The lack of deep balls to Jennings and Malone are mind boggling

My biggest problem was the constant throws right at the 1st down marker on 3rd downs. Corners never respected the deep ball cause they never had to. They knew we would try to get just enough. That may have been a product of Dobbs not being able to consistently hurt teams down the field though.

Little stuff like that kept defenses playing downhill against us. Really great tackling teams would just suffocate our offense. If the opposing defense had deficiencies then we could always take advantage. But if they were locked in or had overwhelming talent, we could rarely ever use that aggressiveness against them. Even though we have great talent too.

The bottom line is we have to find a way to hang with Bama. Which comes down to moving the ball and getting first downs and keeping our defense off the field. We failed miserably at that. Granted, a lot of teams did. But to get shut down a week after a record breaking performance against A&M is unacceptable to me.

 

[BaldBiker]

Debord won't come out and say anything, Butch hired him when no one else would. OCs want to score as many points as they can, Fulmer pulled the reigns on Cut at the end of games, I remember hearing Cut say Fulmer would just say let's get physical. OCs job is to score points;

Until someone tells them to stop.

It's still just speculation. Not saying you are wrong, just that we do not know this to be fact.

The ultimate outcome for any coach should be to win. How that is done actually changes week to week and even during the game itself. There is no head coach that makes every call during a game. If there was, he would be the only coach standing on the sideline.

Another thing to think about...DeBord is being replaced. Maybe that is the reason why? Once again. Just speculation.

 

[utvolmaniac]

That is why I am saying the offense should remain largely intact.

Not that I am in disagreement, as "largely intact" suggests some changes need to be made. The offense needs tweaking to fit the skill set of either QD or JG, whoever wins the job. I don't think either will run the zone read nearly as effective as JD did. He was special with the ball in his hands (not so much as a passer; although he had a heck of a bowl game). QD and/or JG appear to me more of pocket passers with the abilities to pull down the ball and run vs running the zone read. That's not to say we should eliminate zone read plays...just a lot fewer of them. Tweak the system.

That, and GET UNDER CENTER on short yardage situations (i.e. 3rd and 1).

 

[butchna]

I think that's the biggest problem with moving him to OC. Tennessee isn't a place to figure out whether you can be a good OC or not. Honestly, it would be malpractice to put someone in that position at UT, against SEC defenses, that has never done it before.

Not jazzed if it ends up being Scott, but there's no absolutes on OC's. They all have to start somewhere and we just saw what a newbie could do when given their first chance in Tee Martin.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Swain's podcast is so garbage

 

[utvolmaniac]

Swain's podcast is so garbage

And, in other breaking news......