Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[BigZiti09]

The only problem with the offense is that we seem to try and go vanilla from the start sometimes and it bogs it down.

North Texas, Ohio, App State, etc.

That's a HC thing and not an OC thing IMO. OC's want to score points.

 

[Glitch]

Because reasons.

Offense hasn't really been the issue.

Many on here want Butch the bring in a new guy and allow him to run a new offense because they seem to think that Butch's isn't cutting it. I was pointing out that there are four guys that are in the top 10 in points scored at UT. I think we just need someone to make minor tweaks and keep running Butch's offense. I'm much more interested to see the QB coach and the changes to the defensive staff. Especially DBs. Our DBs were awful this year. It seemed like they were coached to not turn their heads because it almost seemed that they refused to do it. It was awful.

 

[Dust10]

The only problem with the offense is that we seem to try and go vanilla from the start sometimes and it bogs it down.

North Texas, Ohio, App State, etc.

That's a HC thing and not an OC thing IMO. OC's want to score points.

Agreed. It's almost like we are scared of showing too much. I say, in football if you're good, just run your offense and challenge a defense to stop it.

 

[VolGee4]

Observations. JMO.

Rock G - Rams haven't been much, but then Jeff Fisher was just fired so there's that. Nobody can deny they are not physically strong or explosive at some positions. They just need roster development and good schemes. Rock helped develop a 13-3 with GB in 2007 in his 3 years with them. He helped develop the first 3 years in a 5 year run in the playoffs for Seattle including a 13-3 in 2005 when they lost in the SB with Holmgren. He was with them for 6 years until going to GB. He's from Kentucky and went to Morehead, so I'm guessing he's probably closing out his career more near to home. Power and explosiveness guy - but most claim that. "Rock" solid hire IMO.

Jimmy Johnson always said to design your team to beat the best opponent on your schedule. Bama. Power and explosiveness, not overloaded with gazelles and trick offenses. How did Louisville finish out with that? Also, smaller speed guys wear down in the second half on D. Ziti has been pounding the posts about having enough big, strong DT's. That also applies at LB, hence Bituli's promotion and Ignont's recruitment. Ziti's right and Jimmy Johnson always did that with DT's and LB's. On O we know Butch loves the run game and set up his scheme for it to thrive. Now he needs the players developed that can accomplish it. In a DT QB offense you better have a good DT QB coach, whether the OC does it or somebody else. I disagree with Butch in recruiting a million WR's. A solid rotation of 6-7 are plenty when you plan to run the ball close to 60% of the time - which Butch does. That means you recruit 9-10, not a dozen. Use those 2-3 scholarships on more DT's and big LB's. You can always run more two TE sets with the passing TE(s) in the slot(s) if there are significant injuries.

If Scott's the guy as OC, I can live with it. Not overly enthusiastic about it because I am not totally sold on Butch's O and that's what his hire would mean - just tweaks and play calling changes. I will never be a fan of wasting plays, time, and injuries on middle school level gap scheme runs that are not going to win games in the SEC. Which was what they made Hurd run over and over. Yes, RB's like Kelly and Kamara can make more with their jukes and quickness, but they also take a pounding in the process. If the D does its job that play design will only work occasionally when the RB is lined up in the pistol and can have enough time see how the gaps develop. Even with that, the D also has more time to outflank the O-line and cave the play from the outside. The counter to their crashing down is the man in motion and jet sweep stuff for which Jake was famous. He was only responding with what Butch gave him in that system, which may have contributed to why he left for the NFL. Four years of watching it has been one of the most frustrating things to watch as a lifelong Vol fan.

FWIW, David Blackburn would know all this.

Great stuff.

 

[InVOLuntary]

The only problem with the offense is that we seem to try and go vanilla from the start sometimes and it bogs it down.

North Texas, Ohio, App State, etc.

That's a HC thing and not an OC thing IMO. OC's want to score points.

The passing routes drive me crazy at times. Too many times we have receivers so close together they can slap hands. We're supposed to spread people out but our routes don't reflect that.

 

[McGeesPub]

Really? Elaborate please. Did you see issues with the offense other that what Newt just mentioned?

Our offense was good this year. Other than some mental break downs by players on occasion, the main problems were getting into a rut of predictable play calling and/or not being aggressive enough. I actually liked DeBord, but those are the exact two things that I would say needed to be fixed too. Even with DeBord...when he called unpredictable games and/or got more aggressive, our offense went from good to great.

Not flaming. Curious as to your opinion on as to why it's an oversimplification.

Come on. "All you need to do is call better plays and be more aggressive." Tell me how that's not an oversimplification. How about, "All you need to do is score more points"? Was DeBord calling plays from the Not Quite Good Enough playbook? I mean, I think that's what all OCs probably strive for, to call better plays. It's not a given that it will happen.

He's not wrong, per se, but it doesn't happen just like that.

If you don't agree that sentence is vast oversimplification on its face, that's fine, but we aren't going to agree on this point, and I'm not going to try to convince you. Probably best to just move on.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

Yeah. Reports have been that Helfrich, not Butch, was the guy who cooled on the deal. Whether that's because he just wants to take it easy for a season or two or because he's not interested in working with Butch is what I'd like to know.


But you've gotta think Butch should be able to find an experienced who would want to come here if he was willing to be let the guy have control and be hands off.

I think LA Vol reported the issue was the buyout. Helfrich doens't want one and UT does.

 

[Glitch]

The only problem with the offense is that we seem to try and go vanilla from the start sometimes and it bogs it down.

North Texas, Ohio, App State, etc.

That's a HC thing and not an OC thing IMO. OC's want to score points.

I agree. Stop holding back. Stop trying to save plays for later games. Go balls out from the jump and scare the heck out of your opponents with how many points you score. Line up and make them stop everything you can throw at them.

 

[BigZiti09]

The passing routes drive me crazy at times. Too many times we have receivers so close together they can slap hands. We're supposed to spread people out but our routes don't reflect that.

That's so when Dobbs overshoots his target it looks like a season saving completion to Josh Smith!!! 😂

 

[bignewt]

Come on. "All you need to do is call better plays and be more aggressive." Tell me how that's not an oversimplification. How about, "All you need to do is score more points"? Was DeBord calling plays from the Not Quite Good Enough playbook? I mean, I think that's what all OCs probably strive for, to call better plays. It's not a given that it will happen.

He's not wrong, per se, but it doesn't happen just like that.

If you don't agree that sentence is vast oversimplification on its face, that's fine, but we aren't going to agree on this point, and I'm not going to try to convince you. Probably best to just move on.

All I will say on this is DeBord's shortcomings came from his playcalling, not the system. We still set a record for points. Is that due to the athletic ability of our skill positions to make the most out of nothing? Probably has something to do with it but the system worked. The play calling was frustrating at times to many fans. The explosive plays are there we need an OC that can call them to exploit the defense and the players to execute them. A new system? There are a lot more variables.

 

[tn4elvis]

My take is that we will be developing a new QB next year. QD is more of a pocket passer who happens to be able to pull the rock down and run. JG may be in that same mold, or he could be more like JD and will be affective in CBJ's zone read offense. I happen to think he fits the former mold rather than the latter, but time will tell.

Since we have to develop a new QB, now would be the time to tweak the offensive scheme.

Bama has historically ran a pro-style offense. However, this past year they incorporated more zone read plays into their offense. That fit with their new QB, Jalen Hurts.

Thus, that is the difference between Saban and CBJ. Saban is willing to adjust his offense to fit his players' skill sets while CBJ wants the players to adjust their skill sets to fit his offense. Who would you rather have as your coach?

Don't read me wrong, I am pro CBJ, but this is one of his short-comings.

Great post .I was amazed at all the zone read plays Bama ran this year.Great coaches do adapt their systems to the talent they have.

 

[utvolmaniac]

I think the staff is actually recruiting way too many linebackers. If every thing holds in the recruiting class, then we will have 13 LB's on scholarship next year for 2 spots.

Our LB's get a lot of run in Special Teams, but in general, I agree.

That's because we have too many DB's converted to LB's, IMO. They have the speed, but not the bulk. There are the exceptions, like JRM (actually recruited as a 198# athlete), but for the most part that doesn't work well. We need the big guys who can also run. Hopefully, Bituli and Ignont fit the bill.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

I think the staff is actually recruiting way too many linebackers. If every thing holds in the recruiting class, then we will have 13 LB's on scholarship next year for 2 spots.

I don't think all 4 of the current commits will stick. Thought I'd seen where JHenderson was unlikely to end up here.

I'd think the goal would be to have around 10 on the roster. Maybe a spot to watch in terms of attrition this offseason.

And last I'd read, Blakely was likely to grow into a DE. I'm pretty sure he was signing autographs with the DL table when they went to Gatlinburg last month.

 

[Volator]

The passing routes drive me crazy at times. Too many times we have receivers so close together they can slap hands. We're supposed to spread people out but our routes don't reflect that.

Completely agree on the single branch route trees. Make any phone calls?

 

[SSVol]

Just increases the perception that he's unwilling to make hires he can't keep pinned under his thumb.

Butch is an offense guy. He has strong opinions and he wants people that reflect his values. It's not necessary to keep someone "pinned under his thumb" if you trust them. Since the offense is clearly not an issue, I really don't understand this narrative.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I'm excited to see the impact that rock has on our players.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I think LA Vol reported the issue was the buyout. Helfrich doens't want one and UT does.

That is true. But think about why he doesn't want a buyout... so he can go with Chip Kelly wherever he gets HC gig next year.

 

[Volnukem]

I don't think all 4 of the current commits will stick. Thought I'd seen where JHenderson was unlikely to end up here.

I'd think the goal would be to have around 10 on the roster. Maybe a spot to watch in terms of attrition this offseason.

And last I'd read, Blakely was likely to grow into a DE. I'm pretty sure he was signing autographs with the DL table when they went to Gatlinburg last month.

That's good news. Thank you. We definitely need DE's this class.

 

[UT4LIFE86]

On my Facebook feed...it says BREAKING: Tennessee close to naming new oc ..picture of Larry scott

 

[Nash_Vol97]

The passing routes drive me crazy at times. Too many times we have receivers so close together they can slap hands. We're supposed to spread people out but our routes don't reflect that.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

On my Facebook feed...it says BREAKING: Tennessee close to naming new oc ..picture of Larry scott

Yup. I just got an alert from Bleacher Report saying Tennessee Asst. Larry Scott top in house candidate for OC gig, ex-Oregon HC Mark Helfrich not being considered.

Really doesn't tell us much more than we already know though.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Let me just go on record: I like Larry Scott. I think he will do a good job if he's the guy. I think he's a good recruiter too.

But I don't think hiring him makes Butch any more likely to keep his job next season.

 

[Rishvol]

Your logic eludes me.

New starting QB. New system and terminology. Even playing round for all QBs. May the best man win.

 

[Glitch]

I'm excited to see the impact that rock has on our players.

He's already started to toughen them up with Wrench Therapy.

 

[NMVol]

Nice conversation on the offense here. Do think Oline development will continue to be an issue. Pass protection seemed better this year but we didn't show the ability to take over games in the 4th quarter on the LOS down the stretch.