Cover 3 Pattern Match

#26
#26
Vol8188 said:
The issue with man is that defenders can be picked off on rub routes. Banjo is designed to give defenders the best leverage to play a give route (the guy outside of the two WRs will take any outside cut and the guy inside will take any inside cut).

The issue with true zone (spot dropping) is that I can flood your zone and put more players in it than you can defend. This is where route reading becomes advantageous and teaching players to recognize and react to common route combinations.
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Wait, theres someone on here who knows what hes talking about? How does he not have his own thread?
 
#27
#27
Vol8188 said:
I'll run 2, 3, 4 and man (regular or banjo) in the course of a game.

Regular man or banjo is a check between the safety and the corner. I just call our man color. That tells them to play man, but they'll then make a banjo or lock call before the play based on how close the WRs are to each other (close WRs are more likely to cross and require a banjo call).

Cover 4 is our base but sometimes a formation will dictate we have to roll a safety down to one side to prevent the offense from out flanking or out numbering us(11 or 12 personnel 3x1 sets for example).

Cover 2 is something I'll call from time to time as a change up because of how soft a cover 4 team is in the flats. You try to call it in when you their tendencies tell you they'll try to throw to the flats (3rd and 4 for example) in hopes of picking one and scaring them away from the weak spot in our base defense.

Cover 3 and 2 are also used for blitzing. If I blitz from one side, I'll normally roll the safety to replace the blitzers zone (cover 3). If I blitz from both sides I'll drop both corners (cover 2).

I'll normally only use man when I'm sending 6 or more (goalline or 3rd down).
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4 over top is your base? Y'all must be playing pass happy teams

Your statement about tendencies needs to be highlighted. Flooding a zone isn't complex but can be defensively attacked with film study and jumping routes.

We played mainly a cover 2 and some cover 3 when I was in high school. Cover 2 when I coached. A lot more man coverage on the 1's nad picking up first and second man through on the inside.
 
#28
#28
Caleb59seal said:
Ya I don't know how much you keep up with high school football but their has been a lot more complexity to both sides of the ball in the past five years that I know of.... As opposed to line up and play man.
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Yes, I know the spread has gotten down to the high school level and things have opened up since the days everybody was running the Veer. I've just been on a lot of sidelines and heard the wide variation in how sophisticated systems are from team to team. It's pathetic how simple some are and it's sometimes amazing how complex some guys get.

I was a little surprised when he talked about a Cover 4 shell being his base defense.
 
#29
#29
LittleDTO said:
4 over top is your base? Y'all must be playing pass happy teams

Your statement about tendencies needs to be highlighted. Flooding a zone isn't complex but can be defensively attacked with film study and jumping routes.

We played mainly a cover 2 and some cover 3 when I was in high school. Cover 2 when I coached. A lot more man coverage on the 1's nad picking up first and second man through on the inside.
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I feel like I'm better against the run in c4 than 2. Essentially cover 4 becomes cover 0. We actually see a lot of run. I love seeing i formation or any 2 back set. Free's the safeties up to be active in the box and they can play flat footed because they don't have an immediate run threat over them.
 
#30
#30
GAVol said:
Yes, I know the spread has gotten down to the high school level and things have opened up since the days everybody was running the Veer. I've just been on a lot of sidelines and heard the wide variation in how sophisticated systems are from team to team. It's pathetic how simple some are and it's sometimes amazing how complex some guys get.

I was a little surprised when he talked about a Cover 4 shell being his base defense.
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The key is having high carry over in everything you teach. Cover 4 and 3 is the same for everyone except for the safeties. So we can very easily move in and out of those. The corners and safeties have different responsibilities in 2. Lb zones stay the same in all of my coverages (if a DB has their zone, it's because they're blitzing or playing DE).
 
#31
#31
Other_Guy said:
Wait, theres someone on here who knows what hes talking about? How does he not have his own thread?
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I've done a few before. I did a decent thread on zone read when CBJ was first hired. Didn't realize he'd run so many man read concepts when Debord got hired.
 
#32
#32
To elaborate on my preference of C4 against the run:

C4 safeties are 8-12 yards off the ball.

C1/C3 free safety is normally 12-15 yards off.

C2 safeties are 12-15 yards off.

Since C4 safeties divide the middle of the field between two people, they don't have to play as deep and can be more aggressive.

C4 is also extremely versatile. I can easily roll a safety down to a 1 high look or squat both corners to take away the flats. It's much harder to roll a LB back to play safety if you're in a 4-4 for example.
 
#33
#33
Caleb59seal said:
Thank you man I am an upcoming coach and love talking X and O's this board makes it hard to find sometimes.... So what do you do with china/ smash concept? Does Corner drop smash and drop to corner route? Or do you have the flat player (linebacker or nickle) take #7 route all the way and corner drops down and cuts the curl or smash route?....

Also what about crossers I think I understand but which LB takes the crosser would it be the weak side of the crosser so you don't make them run with the crosser as soon as he breaks because that would automatically take you from a less then advantageous postion with more of a trail technique with a backer on a slot or X/Z receiver....

Do you make a push call or "under" call when one breaks to let them know one is going so one is coming?

Or what do you do if trips.... I like the Mable check because it gives you a push call so it's four defenders on three receivers with the weak side backer taking the 4/1st crosser?
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In trips we either play cover 2 or 4. Mainly 4. Sometimes we will man up if it's not a bunch set, but that's rare and situational (some teams use trips to limit blitzes on short yardage). If we play 2, I put my OLB inside #3 and my CB outside #1. As the play develops they'll press those wr's and turn their hips so they can see all three (hips outside for the lb and inside for the corner), then they'll take any route that breaks to them. My trips side safety will play over 2 at 12-15 yards and my backside safety will play middle of the field unless there's a backside speed threat (RB aligned opposite trips). In that case he plays 12-15 over weakside B gap so he can react quicker.

We are a base 3 man front but will slide to or sometimes even away from trips. We may also play bear or just blitz one of the olb's. Typically when we do that we are playing quarters and just rolling the safeties.

For example:

We will line up in cover 2 (puts the olb inside of #3 so it's easier to blitz him) and be in a base 3-4 look. Then we will send the strong side LB and slant the front weak. This requires our safeties to roll strong to replace the lb in flats and we check to cover 4. So both safeties end up moving to the trips side before the snap (backside safety over 3, strong side rolled up and over 2, and the corner playing over 1 and deep).
 
#34
#34
Here's the different ways we align to trips. From there we can move the front and/or secondary and we use a few different blitzes. If we stay in our 3-4 we will either blitz the buck (easier to do because he doesn't have a #2 backside) or we will slide the safeties and blitz the Sam. Sometimes we may keep both in and blitz the will. In our under and bear fronts we are less likely to blitz unless we are having issues getting to the passer or its short yardage.
 

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#35
#35
GAVol said:
Yes, I know the spread has gotten down to the high school level and things have opened up since the days everybody was running the Veer. I've just been on a lot of sidelines and heard the wide variation in how sophisticated systems are from team to team. It's pathetic how simple some are and it's sometimes amazing how complex some guys get.

I was a little surprised when he talked about a Cover 4 shell being his base defense.
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Yea me too but he said it Becomes like man straight across.... Maybe he lines up in a right cover 4.... Would explain why he prefers it against the run.... Why not cover 2 with your corners down low as force players.... Found that it gets a safety in nickel some more space to make plays.... My safety is really good...
 
#36
#36
Caleb59seal said:
Yea me too but he said it Becomes like man straight across.... Maybe he lines up in a right cover 4.... Would explain why he prefers it against the run.... Why not cover 2 with your corners down low as force players.... Found that it gets a safety in nickel some more space to make plays.... My safety is really good...
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I feel like the ball normally cuts up before that corner ever gets there and I don't like how deep the safeties have to be in C2. By the time my safeties get down, the ball has already cut up the field.

In C4 the safety can be the aggressor and the corner has more time to react because of the safety filling the alley quicker (essentially since the corner has the final gap, it takes longer for the ball to get to him so he can play pass first and still give decent run support).
 
#37
#37
You line those safety's on the 2 closer to the line of scrimmage when you are running 4 high. Forcing execution on short routes, still being overtop but close for run support.
 
#38
#38
LittleDTO said:
You line those safety's on the 2 closer to the line of scrimmage when you are running 4 high. Forcing execution on short routes, still being overtop but close for run support.
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Pretty much. On passing downs I play more cover 1. Closes off the middle of the field and forces teams to throw outside.

If a team is running four verticals for example, cover 4 is truly cover 0.

But 1 gives me 5 DBs on 4 WRs. Also allows me to send 5-6 players (sometimes the edge rusher has the RB in coverage).
 
#39
#39
Vol8188 said:
Pretty much. On passing downs I play more cover 1. Closes off the middle of the field and forces teams to throw outside.

If a team is running four verticals for example, cover 4 is truly cover 0.

But 1 gives me 5 DBs on 4 WRs. Also allows me to send 5-6 players (sometimes the edge rusher has the RB in coverage).
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Ahhh makes perfect since to me now.... What if they start lighting up the underneath throws for example (I don't know if you guys see this or not) #1 runs a 10 yd out #3 runs a vert in the seam and #2 runs a snag (stems inside and goes anywhere from 5-7 yds deep and stops with the RB working as a trailer behind the seam....? Basically te snag concept with a trailer... But the trailer is running more of an option route depending on what he sees.
 
#40
#40
Vol8188 said:
Here's the different ways we align to trips. From there we can move the front and/or secondary and we use a few different blitzes. If we stay in our 3-4 we will either blitz the buck (easier to do because he doesn't have a #2 backside) or we will slide the safeties and blitz the Sam. Sometimes we may keep both in and blitz the will. In our under and bear fronts we are less likely to blitz unless we are having issues getting to the passer or its short yardage.
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Do you ever get burned on bang 8's backside? What technique does that corner weak use?
 
#41
#41
Vol8188 said:
Pretty much. On passing downs I play more cover 1. Closes off the middle of the field and forces teams to throw outside.

If a team is running four verticals for example, cover 4 is truly cover 0.

But 1 gives me 5 DBs on 4 WRs. Also allows me to send 5-6 players (sometimes the edge rusher has the RB in coverage).
Click to expand...

Also anytime if you could or ever felt like it help me learn some defense.... I know a little but you know more than me.... So I would Iove to learn...
 
#42
#42
Love this. Would love to hear how you defend your run of the mill RPO (LB drops, give; LB attacks, dump short route)
 
#43
#43
Caleb59seal said:
Do you ever get burned on bang 8's backside? What technique does that corner weak use?
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He's inside leverage man about 5-7 off unless we play under weak or base (allows the Buck to help him underneath).

We see some slants. Not a lot of post. I'll start out playing under weak if they like slant. If it's a deeper slant or a post I'll play more of our regular under with cover 4 (may slant to under by lining up in base and bringing a buck blitz, keeps more people back side presnap and makes that throw less likely). This puts the backside safety in a better position (under weak requires him to go trips side) allowing him to stay over the backside Tackle.

In C4 that backside safety is a free player. I teach him to play run first. If it looks or smells like run, fill your alley or replace the inside Lb it flow is away.

Then play the qb's eyes looking for quick slant to 3 vertical.

Haven't had a ton of issues against it and either staying in base and then slanting (so backside numbers look better pre snap) or running under weak (leaving an OLB walked out to that side) typically does the trick. If it doesn't, we have ran under weak and locked up press man with the OLB(or next best DB) and allowed the corner to play over the top.
 
#45
#45
Coach_Z said:
Love this. Would love to hear how you defend your run of the mill RPO (LB drops, give; LB attacks, dump short route)
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Honestly, we man up on RPO teams. They try to put my inside defenders in a bind with their run/pass responsibilities. So I just take away their pass responsibilities and let the inside linebackers play run. We will either play C1 or C0 if we see a lot of RPO's.
 
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#48
#48
Vol8188 said:
I've done a few before. I did a decent thread on zone read when CBJ was first hired. Didn't realize he'd run so many man read concepts when Debord got hired.
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Hey have you ever heard of Slow shuffle before as a DB technique?
 
#50
#50
Vol8188 said:
I have. I prefer back pedal. I want their hips parallel to the line of scrimmage as long as possible
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What is slow shuffle? And I like back pedal too but I am a Cover 3 side shuffle so there is no "T" turns I think the less you have to completely flip your hips the more likely you are to be successful as a CB... The only thing with the Half turn on a WR is you have to be really good at feeling the Receiver...
 
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