Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[Vols4us]

I feel incredibly pessimistic about Tennessee football now. Just don't think Butch is going to get it done and don't think we have the leadership or the "all hands on deck" approach necessary to be relevant again in the near future. Depressing.

Understandable. I have tried to ignore what he says as Ziti said. But he just keeps digging deeper holes in the media, which is hurting the program. He was on last night with a remark about there being 7 coaches that now say "champions of life". Which is the point - he actually knew there were now 7 other coaches that said it. He doesn't get that his CoL comments were a big deal because he blew off winning the division as a stated goal for the season. Somebody needs to tell the guy to just go full Belichick with the media since he is so thin skinned.

IMO if he doesn't make serious positive staff/S&C changes - he gone. The recruiting will continue to tank without it.

 

[Vols4us]

He'll either be LSU head coach in two years or that entire staff will be out of work. Lol

lol. UT needs to keep close tabs on him for future reference.

 

[Skullbone]

I don't know if this is so or not, but I get the sneaking suspicion that for whatever reasons the powers at be don't like anyone with strong Tennessee ties or emotional attachment for AD or Chancellor. It seems like they prefer the cold, sterile leadership of a non-attached outsider to keep things strictly business. I don't know if there's anything to that or not, but it sure feels that way. I do know that if the Blackburn fellow doesn't get the job there will be a volnation and twitter meltdown.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I feel incredibly pessimistic about Tennessee football now. Just don't think Butch is going to get it done and don't think we have the leadership or the "all hands on deck" approach necessary to be relevant again in the near future. Depressing.

That's kinda my feeling as well. Don't think enough people care about it over there. It's a necessary evil in many people's eyes over there.

 

[BigZiti09]

I don't know if this is so or not, but I get the sneaking suspicion that for whatever reasons the powers at be don't like anyone with strong Tennessee ties or emotional attachment for AD or Chancellor. It seems like they prefer the cold, sterile leadership of a non-attached outsider to keep things strictly business. I don't know if there's anything to that or not, but it sure feels that way. I do know that if the Blackburn fellow doesn't get the job there will be a volnation and twitter meltdown.

Yep. Liberal elitist school of thought that is taking over that university it seems. Nobody who is from Tennessee could possibly be smart enough to be in charge at Tennessee.

 

[NMVol]

You know that I was interested in that Mississippi running back. Was thinking him choosing the Vols would give some lacking sizzle. But the truth is that the Vols are set up to take a step up with the running game. Chandler is noted to be a back with great balance among the elite in this recruiting class. Kelly has shown that no one hits the hole harder. And if CFA beats out Chandler one knows that he has shown something. The Vols may be poised for a quiet line of scrimmage based move in 2017. But the hype train gonna slow down a bit.

 

[vol2002]

That's kinda my feeling as well. Don't think enough people care about it over there. It's a necessary evil in many people's eyes over there.

My optimism is that UT football is an obvious money machine for the university that someone someday will recognize again and invest heavily into its success. I concur though that the current crowd appears to see it largely as a distraction from other "loftier" university goals.

 

[McGeesPub]

Find a meeting to go to.

I think he's here. We are about to get started. Help yourself to a jelly doughnut.

 

[vol2002]

You know that I was interested in that Mississippi running back. Was thinking him choosing the Vols would give some lacking sizzle. But the truth is that the Vols are set up to take a step up with the running game. Chandler is noted to be a back with great balance among the elite in this recruiting class. Kelly has shown that no one hits the hole harder. And if CFA beats out Chandler one knows that he has shown something. The Vols may be poised for a quiet line of scrimmage based move in 2017. But the hype train gonna slow down a bit.

The potential is there for sure next year. Who knows where the team's head will be after what will inevitably be a highly negative offseason of "coach on the hotseat" nonsense.

Sigh. Football plays too few games, leaving too much airtime for painstaking over analysis.

 

[volinexile17]

The potential is there for sure next year. Who knows where the team's head will be after what will inevitably be a highly negative offseason of "coach on the hotseat" nonsense.

Sigh. Football plays too few games, leaving too much airtime for painstaking over analysis.

As long as QB is decent, our offense should put up good numbers. Just a matter of getting the defense figured out and staying healthy.

 

[InVOLuntary]

My optimism is that UT football is an obvious money machine for the university that someone someday will recognize again and invest heavily into its success. I concur though that the current crowd appears to see it largely as a distraction from other "loftier" university goals.

They're raking in the cash regardless of the results currently. No one is giving up there season tickets yet. The way they do things over there is different than most places. Not sure whether than they take the loyalty of the fan base for granted. Their modus operandi is they hire a coach on the cheap, let him stay until attendance/revenue drops to where it cost more to keep him than sending him on his way and paying the buyout. Hire a new up and comer on the cheap. Fans/revenue returns for a few years until results don't meet expectations. Fire the coach. Was, rinse, repeat. It's a formula.

 

[McGeesPub]

They're raking in the cash regardless of the results currently. No one is giving up there season tickets yet. The way they do things over there is different than most places. Not sure whether than they take the loyalty of the fan base for granted. Their modus operandi is they hire a coach on the cheap, let him stay until attendance/revenue drops to where it cost more to keep him than sending him on his way and paying the buyout. Hire a new up and comer on the cheap. Fans/revenue returns for a few years until results don't meet expectations. Fire the coach. Was, rinse, repeat. It's a formula.

My question is how, and why. How, as in, how has this been the MO across several ADs, presidents and boards? You would think things wouldn't be so consistent across the terms of so many different stakeholders. Second, why? Everyone knows how powerful big money donors are at any university, not just UT. At most places, these people are competitive with respect to athletics. They aren't worried about value propositions and the bottom lines with respect to AD budgets.

There has to be constants here. So many consider Big Jim to be the patron saint of UT athletics. Is he actually the one holding us back? Is another booster the constant in this line of thinking?

 

[Nashvegas31]

I expect a bunch of shenanigans lol

groupies!!!!

 

[mr.checkerboards]

They're raking in the cash regardless of the results currently. No one is giving up there season tickets yet. The way they do things over there is different than most places. Not sure whether than they take the loyalty of the fan base for granted. Their modus operandi is they hire a coach on the cheap, let him stay until attendance/revenue drops to where it cost more to keep him than sending him on his way and paying the buyout. Hire a new up and comer on the cheap. Fans/revenue returns for a few years until results don't meet expectations. Fire the coach. Was, rinse, repeat. It's a formula.

Agree they know they can do this and put the rest of the money into academics. Until this fan base quits showing up at the beginning for these up and comers nothing will change

 

[VolGee4]

My question is how, and why. How, as in, how has this been the MO across several ADs, presidents and boards? You would think things wouldn't be so consistent across the terms of so many different stakeholders. Second, why? Everyone knows how powerful big money donors are at any university, not just UT. At most places, these people are competitive with respect to athletics. They aren't worried about value propositions and the bottom lines with respect to AD budgets.

There has to be constants here. So many consider Big Jim to be the patron saint of UT athletics. Is he actually the one holding us back? Is another booster the constant in this line of thinking?

Up until 2008, we had 2 coaches in 30 years, so I doubt very many people involved knew ho to hire a new coach. Then, you throw Kiffin out because he left after a year. If this is indeed the process, it's only happened over 2 coaches, which is not really a pattern yet. Although 2012 was hyped, I am not sure Dooley did a whole lot to raise the level of money. Butch certainly did, but that was from him really improving the brand, despite a disappointment this year.

IMO, it will continue to happen that UT will not be able to hire an elite level coach. We will have to hire someone that has to prove himself, and that is fine if you find the right one. But, Oregon hired Taggart; LSU retained Orgeron. These are huge schools without big names. Times have changed.

 

[InVOLuntary]

My question is how, and why. How, as in, how has this been the MO across several ADs, presidents and boards? You would think things wouldn't be so consistent across the terms of so many different stakeholders. Second, why? Everyone knows how powerful big money donors are at any university, not just UT. At most places, these people are competitive with respect to athletics. They aren't worried about value propositions and the bottom lines with respect to AD budgets.

There has to be constants here. So many consider Big Jim to be the patron saint of UT athletics. Is he actually the one holding us back? Is another booster the constant in this line of thinking?

I don't know if this is correct but in regards to Big Jim, I was told he is not as driven when it comes to athletics as much as he used to be.

As to the donors, I was told that there has been a concerted effort to reduce booster influence. They want their money unconditionally. An example of this was when Cuonzo was here. Many wanted him gone but Hart wouldn't fire him. Very similar to the Texas/Strong situation where Cuonzo wasn't much for rubbing shoulders with the boosters. So when Hart refused to fire him, certain boosters said "fine but he ain't using my plane".

Also, if you look at it from a pure business perspective, it's a winning formula, for the books anyway. From a simple profit standpoint it's hard to argue with it. My question is, how long will that formula hold up? When will UT fans say screw it I'm done?

 

[McGeesPub]

Up until 2008, we had 2 coaches in 30 years, so I doubt very many people involved knew ho to hire a new coach. Then, you throw Kiffin out because he left after a year. If this is indeed the process, it's only happened over 2 coaches, which is not really a pattern yet. Although 2012 was hyped, I am not sure Dooley did a whole lot to raise the level of money. Butch certainly did, but that was from him really improving the brand, despite a disappointment this year.

IMO, it will continue to happen that UT will not be able to hire an elite level coach. We will have to hire someone that has to prove himself, and that is fine if you find the right one. But, Oregon hired Taggart; LSU retained Orgeron. These are huge schools without big names. Times have changed.

Football, yes. But the MO is also reflected in basketball hires. My comment was not exclusive to football.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Up until 2008, we had 2 coaches in 30 years, so I doubt very many people involved knew ho to hire a new coach. Then, you throw Kiffin out because he left after a year. If this is indeed the process, it's only happened over 2 coaches, which is not really a pattern yet. Although 2012 was hyped, I am not sure Dooley did a whole lot to raise the level of money. Butch certainly did, but that was from him really improving the brand, despite a disappointment this year.

IMO, it will continue to happen that UT will not be able to hire an elite level coach. We will have to hire someone that has to prove himself, and that is fine if you find the right one. But, Oregon hired Taggart; LSU retained Orgeron. These are huge schools without big names. Times have changed.

I agree with you but I throw in Kiffin too. He was not a big name, established, throw the bank at soneone hire. I do think this risk vs reward philosophy has been going on for the last few years.

 

[McGeesPub]

I don't know if this is correct but in regards to Big Jim, I was told he is not as driven when it comes to athletics as much as he used to be.

As to the donors, I was told that there has been a concerted effort to reduce booster influence. They want their money unconditionally. An example of this was when Cuonzo was here. Many wanted him gone but Hart wouldn't fire him. Very similar to the Texas/Strong situation where Cuonzo wasn't much for rubbing shoulders with the boosters. So when Hart refused to fire him, certain boosters said "fine but he ain't using my plane".

Also, if you look at it from a pure business perspective, it's a winning formula, for the books anyway. From a simple profit standpoint it's hard to argue with it. My question is, how long will that formula hold up? When will UT fans say screw it I'm done?

Thanks for the response. Sounds like we just need to say screw it and get a new president.

 

[VolGee4]

Football, yes. But the MO is also reflected in basketball hires. My comment was not exclusive to football.

Well, that's even another discussion. Basketball is never really going to draw a huge name because it is second fiddle to football. However, it is very similar to football in that the money is there for everyone, so coaches are willing to sit at their current jobs.

I though Rick Barnes was a coup for what we needed at the time- stability, reputable name, success at a prior huge school. He may not win us a championship, but who has?

Unfortunately, the fair weather basketball fans want to compare everyone to Pearl. He was a once in a generation type coach at UT. You just can't compare everyone to him. If you do, you will never be satisfied. Heck, at this point, he hasn't been able to do much at Auburn.

 

[Rishvol]

Thanks for the response. Sounds like we just need to say screw it and get a new president.

Trump not good enough?!?!? In all seriousness though a new president would affect a lot more than utk.

 

[BigZiti09]

Well, that's even another discussion. Basketball is never really going to draw a huge name because it is second fiddle to football. However, it is very similar to football in that the money is there for everyone, so coaches are willing to sit at their current jobs.

I though Rick Barnes was a coup for what we needed at the time- stability, reputable name, success at a prior huge school. He may not win us a championship, but who has?

Unfortunately, the fair weather basketball fans want to compare everyone to Pearl. He was a once in a generation type coach at UT. You just can't compare everyone to him. If you do, you will never be satisfied. Heck, at this point, he hasn't been able to do much at Auburn.

We can hire another Pearl. We've passed on better than Pearl.

 

[VolGee4]

I agree with you but I throw in Kiffin too. He was not a big name, established, throw the bank at soneone hire. I do think this risk vs reward philosophy has been going on for the last few years.

I was throwing him out with the notion that people quit spending a few years after hiring a less established coach. He wasn't here long enough to prove that.

We really got behind when Hamilton hired Dooley. Partly poor timing and partly Hamilton.

 

[Skullbone]

Well, that's even another discussion. Basketball is never really going to draw a huge name because it is second fiddle to football. However, it is very similar to football in that the money is there for everyone, so coaches are willing to sit at their current jobs.

I though Rick Barnes was a coup for what we needed at the time- stability, reputable name, success at a prior huge school. He may not win us a championship, but who has?

Unfortunately, the fair weather basketball fans want to compare everyone to Pearl. He was a once in a generation type coach at UT. You just can't compare everyone to him. If you do, you will never be satisfied. Heck, at this point, he hasn't been able to do much at Auburn.

Because he left his heart at Tennessee.

 

[VolGee4]

We can hire another Pearl. We've passed on better than Pearl.

Oh, there is one out there. But his 6 year run was phenomenal, and his last year would have been better without the cloud.

I just believe it will be hard to replicate that run.