UTC's David Blackburn says no official contact with UT on job

[patrick]

agreed. but even the ones we offered, muschamp comes to mind, he didn't sign with FL a year later for all that much a different price than was offered to him from us? or am i remembering that wrong?

Glad we didnt hire that sideline maniac ---- actually we did hire a sideline maniac AKA Butch Jones.

:loco:

 

[patrick]

I could believe that LSU offered Jimbo $6.5 million, and if Herman learned of that offer then it would be hard for LSU not to make him the same offer if they were serious in pursuing him.

Herman isnt getting 6.5 mill from Texas.

 

[patrick]

Tim Murphy went 17-37 or .314 (pre Minter) :sick:

Maybe you got confused on who turned around what. lol:

For winning percentage sakes. Kelly was .850
Jones followed that with .621

I been telling people since Jones was hired that he, Jones, did less with more there than did his predecessor, Kelly. Interesting......

 

[82_VOL_83]

So, again I will ask "if" they have whatever money they need to hire the best coach they can then why is it that we generally end up with coaches that are on the lower end of the pay spectrum? I have never suggested paying Jones 5 million he is not worth it but I am suggesting that if you were to offer a coach with a decent resume 5-6 million we wouldn't be settling for the Kiffin, Dooley, Jones' of the World. It's funny we want to be an elite program but we want to do it on a middle of the road SEC budget. We are generally behind the curve on salaries not ahead of it. You can't say on one hand that all resources are available but we just "couldn't" do any better than our 5-6 best option. We generally come in on the cheap side with offers.

What makes you think UT wants to be an elite program?

 

[butchna]

I been telling people since Jones was hired that he, Jones, did less with more there than did his predecessor, Kelly. Interesting......

I thought Notre Dame's record was "interesting" this season. Fun fact: Tennessee has NEVER lost 8 games.

 

[jakez4ut]

Thoroughly entertaining .... Thanks fellas👍

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Thoroughly entertaining .... Thanks fellas👍

Seems as if I've missed a good time

 

[jakez4ut]

Seems as if I've missed a good time

Last 2-3 pages was like .gif wars... Lol

 

[patrick]

I thought Notre Dame's record was "interesting" this season. Fun fact: Tennessee has NEVER lost 8 games.

quite interesting and unexpected.

Fact is though Kelly's record was much better than Jones at Cinci.

Kelly career winning % 71.8

Jones career winning % 62.2
______________________________________________

Kelly at ND winning % 65.5 (before this yr 70.5%)

Jones at Tenn winning % 58.0

 

[MrVolton]

That is just silly. Michigan hired Hoke because he was a "Michigan" guy. Mcelwain had turned around Colorado State in 2 years. Brian Kelly had turned around Cincinnati. Muschamp was the hottest coordinator at the time and was the coach in waiting at Texas. We hire guys with no track record of success at any level and then claim there are no big names.

Your last sentence certainly applies to Dooley, but Lane Kiffin was just about the hottest name in coaching in 2008 and Jones won 2 conference championships at each of his last 2 stops. None of the guys you mentioned had significantly better resumes than Jones did before they landed their current jobs. It's easy to blame the University for being cheap, but the reality is that there are very few guys out there that any rational decision maker could justify giving $5-6 million per year at the outset.

 

[jakez4ut]

Your last sentence certainly applies to Dooley, but Lane Kiffin was just about the hottest name in coaching in 2008 and Jones won 2 conference championships at each of his last 2 stops. None of the guys you mentioned had significantly better resumes than Jones did before they landed their current jobs. It's easy to blame the University for being cheap, but the reality is that there are very few guys out there that any rational decision maker could justify giving $5-6 million per year at the outset.

Agreed. And at the time, perception wise, it was fairly widely accepted that we made a "good" hire, in a world of "no sure things"...

 

[utmba93]

if they had an opening, they might.. there was nothing open on the staff in the couple weeks he was out of a job.

Thanks, Larry.

That's reassuring as I wasn't thinking only about Strong, but about the way good coaches often get in bad situations and things simply don't work out (Texas appears to be a mess, but there are others). There seems to be too much reluctance to give that coach a second chance, often favoring a less proven alternative.

I'm glad the Vols are giving CBJ another year, and agree with your points that we need to pay his staff and give him the funds needed to hire and retain the best assistant coaches he can.

 

[landscapingvol]

Your last sentence certainly applies to Dooley, but Lane Kiffin was just about the hottest name in coaching in 2008 and Jones won 2 conference championships at each of his last 2 stops. None of the guys you mentioned had significantly better resumes than Jones did before they landed their current jobs. It's easy to blame the University for being cheap, but the reality is that there are very few guys out there that any rational decision maker could justify giving $5-6 million per year at the outset.

Lane Kiffin "hottest" name, we will have to agree to disagree. He had accomplished nothing prior to the disaster in Oakland. Tom Cable was a failed coach at Oakland, is he a hot name too? Kiffin had no other NFL offers and was passed on by Oregon and Washington. CBJ took over for Kelly who had taken Cincy to crazy heights and CBJ could not maintain it. As I stated, he had a decent record but the Kiffin embelishments are non-sense. He was replacing a hall of fame coach and virtually no experience as a a head coach or sole coordinator. We went the easy, cheap route never counter-offering or making an offer that would make us competitive against the upper echelon SEC.

 

[MrVolton]

Lane Kiffin "hottest" name, we will have to agree to disagree. He had accomplished nothing prior to the disaster in Oakland. Tom Cable was a failed coach at Oakland, is he a hot name too? Kiffin had no other NFL offers and was passed on by Oregon and Washington. CBJ took over for Kelly who had taken Cincy to crazy heights and CBJ could not maintain it. As I stated, he had a decent record but the Kiffin embelishments are non-sense. He was replacing a hall of fame coach and virtually no experience as a a head coach or sole coordinator. We went the easy, cheap route never counter-offering or making an offer that would make us competitive against the upper echelon SEC.

Revisionist history dude. Lane Kiffin was as hot a name as anybody in 2008. Bringing him and his NFL Hall of Fame dad in as DC was a total power move (on paper). It was more of a power move (on paper) than any of the hires you mentioned in the previous post.

Nobody is disputing that Dooley was a panic hire or claiming that he had anything in his resume to justify him becoming the head coach at UT. But to say UT has consistently been hiring unworthy candidates because they've been cheap is not entirely accurate. Recent hires by USC, LSU, and Florida should tell you it's not as easy as you suggest. At the time they were made, none of those hires looked significantly better (on paper) than UT's hires of Kiffin and Jones did. Sure, you can sit here and split hairs about how McElwain and Kelly were so much better hires in order to fit your narrative about UT being cheap, but there's really no substance to your argument.

You keep criticizing UT, but you never offer any alternatives. Who would have been your "realistic" lead pipe lock, $6 million dollar man in 2008? Who would be your "realistic" lead pipe lock, $6 million dollar man if we were to part ways with Jones?

 

[landscapingvol]

Revisionist history dude. Lane Kiffin was as hot a name as anybody in 2008. Bringing him and his NFL Hall of Fame dad in as DC was a total power move (on paper). It was more of a power move (on paper) than any of the hires you mentioned in the previous post.

Nobody is disputing that Dooley was a panic hire or claiming that he had anything in his resume to justify him becoming the head coach at UT. But to say UT has consistently been hiring unworthy candidates because they've been cheap is not entirely accurate. Recent hires by USC, LSU, and Florida should tell you it's not as easy as you suggest. At the time they were made, none of those hires looked significantly better (on paper) than UT's hires of Kiffin and Jones did. Sure, you can sit here and split hairs about how McElwain and Kelly were so much better hires in order to fit your narrative about UT being cheap, but there's really no substance to your argument.

You keep criticizing UT, but you never offer any alternatives. Who would have been your "realistic" lead pipe lock, $6 million dollar man in 2008? Who would be your "realistic" lead pipe lock, $6 million dollar man if we were to part ways with Jones?

Facts are not revisionist. How about not counter offering Strong? Muschamp? Golden? Fedora? Never offering Patterson? Slow playing other more proven coaches like Cutcliff and Calhoun? Splitting hairs, umm Jones had never turned around a single program and followed successful coaches at every stop. His only other major offer was Colorado. UT settled on Kiffin before seriously interviewing anyone else. They butchered the Kiffin hire so poorly no one would touch the job in 2010 other than Dooley. Revisionist history would be comparing Kiffin to Tom Herman at the time and comparing Jones' resume to those of Mcelwain or Kelly. Kiffin had no other major offers except plan b for Washington. Wouldn't you think a "highly" coveted coach would have at least a single NFL offer following Oakland? UT went the safe/budget friendly route as they generally do. There are no guarantees but there are also no rewards without making serious investments in coaches.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Lane Kiffin "hottest" name, we will have to agree to disagree. He had accomplished nothing prior to the disaster in Oakland. Tom Cable was a failed coach at Oakland, is he a hot name too? Kiffin had no other NFL offers and was passed on by Oregon and Washington. CBJ took over for Kelly who had taken Cincy to crazy heights and CBJ could not maintain it. As I stated, he had a decent record but the Kiffin embelishments are non-sense. He was replacing a hall of fame coach and virtually no experience as a a head coach or sole coordinator. We went the easy, cheap route never counter-offering or making an offer that would make us competitive against the upper echelon SEC.

The overwhelming national opinion in November 2008 was that Kiffin had done a good job under impossible circumstances in Oakland, that his firing was more evidence of Al Davis's senility, and that Kiffin was a great young coach with a fantastic career in front of him. I specifically remember Chris Mortenson raving about him on Atlanta sports radio when Tennessee was rumored to be pursuing him. "That would be a great, great hire for Tennessee," I remember him saying at the time. I'm certainly not defending the hire but you are dramatically understating how high Kiffin's reputation was at the moment we hired him.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Kiffin had no other major offers except plan b for Washington. Wouldn't you think a "highly" coveted coach would have at least a single NFL offer following Oakland?

Tennessee and Washington were the only two major college jobs open when Kiffin was hired. He had offers from both of them.

The NFL still had a month left in their regular season.

UT went the safe/budget friendly route as they generally do.

UT was willing to give Kiffin's staff a bunch of huge two-year contracts that turned around to bite us in the ass. Whatever you think of the grand Kiffin plan, it wasn't undertaken because it was "budget-friendly."

 

[landscapingvol]

Tennessee and Washington were the only two major college jobs open when Kiffin was hired. He had offers from both of them.

The NFL still had a month left in their regular season.



UT was willing to give Kiffin's staff a bunch of huge two-year contracts that turned around to bite us in the ass. Whatever you think of the grand Kiffin plan, it wasn't undertaken because it was "budget-friendly."

I thought he had a great staff and am not criticizing the money offered there. I am criticizing the rush to hire Kiffin and him running the staff. Yes Washington offered Kiffin as a backup to Sarkisian. Oregon was also open and had zero interest. Simply because a coach is hired and fired in the NFL doesn't magically make them a great college head coach. UT supplied more money for his staff to offset his known shortcomings as a head coach. Hamilton spear headed the Kiffin hire as soon as Fulmer was forced out in November no real search was ever conducted even though others within the AD tried to persuade him to thoroughly interview all possibilities giving UT a head start in hiring a new head coach. He did not and got Kiffin on a relative bargain which drew the ire of several within the AD because he did not consider any other coaches so concessions were made to make it possible to fund a great staff. As soon as Kiffin bolted the athletic department imploded and the finger pointing/divisions erupted which still exist to this day. Which gets us back to my original point, Kiffin was hired due to relative ease and budget friendliness. No real search was ever created, he was informally hired in November and one of his big selling points to Hamilton was his willingness to take less money. Hamilton really thought he had struck coaching gold and sold it to the AD and boosters as such, "all at a relative bargain" his words not mine. And here we are repeating the same mistakes again hoping for a better result instead of investing the money necessary to compete with the Bamas of the World. I am not suggesting money cures everything but you are never going to attract the type of coach who could beat Bama with the 8-10th highest salary in the league

 

[Vercingetorix]

I thought he had a great staff and am not criticizing the money offered there. I am criticizing the rush to hire Kiffin and him running the staff. Yes Washington offered Kiffin as a backup to Sarkisian. Oregon was also open and had zero interest. Simply because a coach is hired and fired in the NFL doesn't magically make them a great college head coach. UT supplied more money for his staff to offset his known shortcomings as a head coach. Hamilton spear headed the Kiffin hire as soon as Fulmer was forced out in November no real search was ever conducted even though others within the AD tried to persuade him to thoroughly interview all possibilities giving UT a head start in hiring a new head coach. He did not and got Kiffin on a relative bargain which drew the ire of several within the AD because he did not consider any other coaches so concessions were made to make it possible to fund a great staff. As soon as Kiffin bolted the athletic department imploded and the finger pointing/divisions erupted which still exist to this day. Which gets us back to my original point, Kiffin was hired due to relative ease and budget friendliness. No real search was ever created, he was informally hired in November and one of his big selling points to Hamilton was his willingness to take less money. Hamilton really thought he had struck coaching gold and sold it to the AD and boosters as such, "all at a relative bargain" his words not mine. And here we are repeating the same mistakes again hoping for a better result instead of investing the money necessary to compete with the Bamas of the World. I am not suggesting money cures everything but you are never going to attract the type of coach who could beat Bama with the 8-10th highest salary in the league

The Kiffin plan was based on hiring one of the best recruiters in the country and surrounding him with an NFL-quality staff, including the legendary Monte Kiffin. Whatever you think of the plan, it wasn't done to be cheap.

I doubt you and I disagree much on the quality of the hiring we've done; we just don't agree on cause and effect. I don't think we're hiring mediocre coaches because we're only willing to pay low-ish salaries; I think we've been paying lower salaries because various other circumstances and/or incompetences have meant that we've only been able to hire mediocre coaches.

 

[MrVolton]

Hamilton was in over his head and nobody denies that. The revisionist history part is claiming that hiring Kiffin and his hall of fame daddy was viewed as anything other than a big league hire at the time. And considering what was paid out for Lane, Monty, and O, the situation is definitely not a good example of the University going cheap either. Even today, it would probably still be a splashier hire than Golden or Fedora, not that Fedora is a bad coach or anything. And by the way, I do believe Jones had more conference championships going into the UT job than Golden and Fedora combined.

 

[jakez4ut]

Facts are not revisionist. How about not counter offering Strong? Muschamp? Golden? Fedora? Never offering Patterson? Slow playing other more proven coaches like Cutcliff and Calhoun? Splitting hairs, umm Jones had never turned around a single program and followed successful coaches at every stop. His only other major offer was Colorado. UT settled on Kiffin before seriously interviewing anyone else. They butchered the Kiffin hire so poorly no one would touch the job in 2010 other than Dooley. Revisionist history would be comparing Kiffin to Tom Herman at the time and comparing Jones' resume to those of Mcelwain or Kelly. Kiffin had no other major offers except plan b for Washington. Wouldn't you think a "highly" coveted coach would have at least a single NFL offer following Oakland? UT went the safe/budget friendly route as they generally do. There are no guarantees but there are also no rewards without making serious investments in coaches.

What good what it have done to offer any of those guys 5-6 million? None of them are/were worth that kind of money, and Patterson's bridge was burned on the 2nd attempt at him.

Sounds like you just want to spend a crap load of money, regardless.

Kiffin was a commodity at the time, BECAUSE of the staff he was bringing with him.

 

[MrVolton]

I thought he had a great staff and am not criticizing the money offered there. I am criticizing the rush to hire Kiffin and him running the staff. Yes Washington offered Kiffin as a backup to Sarkisian. Oregon was also open and had zero interest. Simply because a coach is hired and fired in the NFL doesn't magically make them a great college head coach. UT supplied more money for his staff to offset his known shortcomings as a head coach. Hamilton spear headed the Kiffin hire as soon as Fulmer was forced out in November no real search was ever conducted even though others within the AD tried to persuade him to thoroughly interview all possibilities giving UT a head start in hiring a new head coach. He did not and got Kiffin on a relative bargain which drew the ire of several within the AD because he did not consider any other coaches so concessions were made to make it possible to fund a great staff. As soon as Kiffin bolted the athletic department imploded and the finger pointing/divisions erupted which still exist to this day. Which gets us back to my original point, Kiffin was hired due to relative ease and budget friendliness. No real search was ever created, he was informally hired in November and one of his big selling points to Hamilton was his willingness to take less money. Hamilton really thought he had struck coaching gold and sold it to the AD and boosters as such, "all at a relative bargain" his words not mine. And here we are repeating the same mistakes again hoping for a better result instead of investing the money necessary to compete with the Bamas of the World. I am not suggesting money cures everything but you are never going to attract the type of coach who could beat Bama with the 8-10th highest salary in the league

Oregon elevated both Kelly and Helfrich from within and I'm pretty sure both instances were foregone conclusions.

It's pretty laughable to think that the hiring of Kiffin and Co. was based on budget freindliness.

 

[jakez4ut]

The Kiffin plan was based on hiring one of the best recruiters in the country and surrounding him with an NFL-quality staff, including the legendary Monte Kiffin. Whatever you think of the plan, it wasn't done to be cheap.

I doubt you and I disagree much on the quality of the hiring we've done; we just don't agree on cause and effect. I don't think we're hiring mediocre coaches because we're only willing to pay low-ish salaries; I think we've been paying lower salaries because various other circumstances and/or incompetences have meant that we've only been able to hire mediocre coaches.

Agreed

 

[MrVolton]

Facts are not revisionist. How about not counter offering Strong? Muschamp? Golden? Fedora? Never offering Patterson? Slow playing other more proven coaches like Cutcliff and Calhoun? Splitting hairs, umm Jones had never turned around a single program and followed successful coaches at every stop. His only other major offer was Colorado. UT settled on Kiffin before seriously interviewing anyone else. They butchered the Kiffin hire so poorly no one would touch the job in 2010 other than Dooley. Revisionist history would be comparing Kiffin to Tom Herman at the time and comparing Jones' resume to those of Mcelwain or Kelly. Kiffin had no other major offers except plan b for Washington. Wouldn't you think a "highly" coveted coach would have at least a single NFL offer following Oakland? UT went the safe/budget friendly route as they generally do. There are no guarantees but there are also no rewards without making serious investments in coaches.

None of the guys you listed here were worth more than $3.5 million per year in 2008, and aside from maybe Herman, none of them are worth more than $3.5 million per year even now. This does nothing to support your argument that UT hires on the cheap. It does, however, go to show just how few coaches are out there that are worth paying $5 million per year for at the outset.

 

[volfan102455]

None of the guys you listed here were worth more than $3.5 million per year in 2008, and aside from maybe Herman, none of them are worth more than $3.5 million per year even now. This does nothing to support your argument that UT hires on the cheap. It does, however, go to show just how few coaches are out there that are worth paying $5 million per year for at the outset.

I can only think of 1 that is worth $5 and he ain't leaving Bama.