Derek Barnett Ranked #18th Best Player By ESPN

#27
#27
KBVol said:
You could argue that #18 is a little low, but it's at worst somewhere in the ballpark. He's been a great college football player. Very interested to see how much of his game/skill/ability translate to the NFL.
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He'll be good. Not great.

Michael Bennett (Seahawks) or Charles Johnson (Panthers) are his closest pro comparisons.

This draft is deep with edge rushers. There are several who will have more impact in the NFL.
 
#29
#29
bamawriter said:
Do you know what the word "objective" means?

If you don't, that's cool. It would explain a lot of your posts.
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Well what objective measure is there to judge an inferior defensive lineman other than watching them play?

The job of interior defensive lineman like Payne and Allen is to take up blockers. Fill their gaps. Stop the run. Push to the pocket and apply pressure.

If you think sacks and TFLs tell you who is better than who then you don't know anything about football. Just know there is a reason coaches and scouts review film rather than the stat sheet.
 
#31
#31
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Just know there is a reason coaches and scouts review film rather than the stat sheet.
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And Allen is very likely a Top 10 if not a Top 5 pick. So if coaches and scouts do all this film study and come to the conclusion that he's one of the best defenders in the nation, then again I ask, what objective criteria are you using to suggest he's not?

But, if it's about film study rather than numbers, then I can still easily follow whatever case you want to make. I have every Bama game available on my PC right now. Give me a few examples from your ample film library so that I can see how Payne is a better defensive lineman than Allen. You don't have to provide clips or even links. Just tell me when the plays in question occurred and I'll find them.
 
#32
#32
bamawriter said:
And Allen is very likely a Top 10 if not a Top 5 pick. So if coaches and scouts do all this film study and come to the conclusion that he's one of the best defenders in the nation, then again I ask, what objective criteria are you using to suggest he's not?

But, if it's about film study rather than numbers, then I can still easily follow whatever case you want to make. I have every Bama game available on my PC right now. Give me a few examples from your ample film library so that I can see how Payne is a better defensive lineman than Allen. You don't have to provide clips or even links. Just tell me when the plays in question occurred and I'll find them.
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Before we get too crazy on the D4H nonsense, do you think Barnett will be a top 5 pick?
 
#33
#33
bamawriter said:
And Allen is very likely a Top 10 if not a Top 5 pick. So if coaches and scouts do all this film study and come to the conclusion that he's one of the best defenders in the nation, then again I ask, what objective criteria are you using to suggest he's not?

But, if it's about film study rather than numbers, then I can still easily follow whatever case you want to make. I have every Bama game available on my PC right now. Give me a few examples from your ample film library so that I can see how Payne is a better defensive lineman than Allen. You don't have to provide clips or even links. Just tell me when the plays in question occurred and I'll find them.
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Courtesy enlightenment: You're falling for it.
 
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#36
#36
Grand Vol said:
More of an expert that picked North to go in the first round last year.
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Or Bosa to be a bust or Kelvin Taylor (recently released by the 49ers practice squad to join the same for the Seahawks) to be the next best back in the draft besides Elliott or etc, etc
 
#37
#37
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He'll be good. Not great.

Michael Bennett (Seahawks) or Charles Johnson (Panthers) are his closest pro comparisons.

This draft is deep with edge rushers. There are several who will have more impact in the NFL.
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Michael Bennett is a monster. That's a top 10 pick.
 
#38
#38
hndog609 said:
Or Bosa to be a bust or Kelvin Taylor (recently released by the 49ers practice squad to join the same for the Seahawks) to be the next best back in the draft besides Elliott or etc, etc
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I honestly would be shocked if Barnett goes ahead of whats his name from ATM. However, if I was an NFL coach, I'd be real leery of taking someone that's been injured all year and/or is pulling a Clowney.
 
#39
#39
Grand Vol said:
I honestly would be shocked if Barnett goes ahead of whats his name from ATM. However, if I was an NFL coach, I'd be real leery of taking someone that's been injured all year and/or is pulling a Clowney.
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That really is a conundrum...do you gamble on the huge talent upside (which is obvious) or do you pass for something a little more certain?
 
#41
#41
hndog609 said:
That really is a conundrum...do you gamble on the huge talent upside (which is obvious) or do you pass for something a little more certain?
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I don't think Garrett is anywhere near close to Barnett in terms of talent. Equal maybe, but I don't think he has an "huge talent upside" compared to DB.
 
#42
#42
Grand Vol said:
I don't think Garrett is anywhere near close to Barnett in terms of talent. Equal maybe, but I don't think he has an "huge talent upside" compared to DB.
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Sorry for the ambiguity. (and this isn't necessarily a Garrett vs Barnett issue) I meant in general when you look at someone that is clearly very physically gifted (the first mock draft I pulled up, sbnation.com, still has Garrett the #1 pick) but has some "questions" about him it can be tough to determine which way you go.

As bw suggested Barnett has been not only very productive but pretty consistent which will probably raise his stock. Enough to overtake Garret? Remains to be seen.
 
#43
#43
bamawriter said:
And Allen is very likely a Top 10 if not a Top 5 pick. So if coaches and scouts do all this film study and come to the conclusion that he's one of the best defenders in the nation, then again I ask, what objective criteria are you using to suggest he's not?

But, if it's about film study rather than numbers, then I can still easily follow whatever case you want to make. I have every Bama game available on my PC right now. Give me a few examples from your ample film library so that I can see how Payne is a better defensive lineman than Allen. You don't have to provide clips or even links. Just tell me when the plays in question occurred and I'll find them.
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Coaches and scouts make mistakes all the time. If Allen goes top 10 it would not be the first time they've taken a guy who will be a bust that high.

My problem with Allen is his lack of explosiveness. Its not one single play. Its his entire skillset. He's a slow plodding athlete. Payne on the other hand has a better get off in terms of quickness off the snap. Thats the main reason I think he'll be much better at the next level.
 
#44
#44
bamawriter said:
It would depend on who's picking in the Top 5. I think he'll go after Allen but before Garrett. I'm certainly no expert.
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WOW.

Before Garrett?

Neither Allen or Barnett will go before Garrett. That guy is a lock to be the first non-QB to be taken. He's not going behind any other defensive lineman.
 
#45
#45
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
My problem with Allen is his lack of explosiveness. Its not one single play. Its his entire skillset. He's a slow plodding athlete. Payne on the other hand has a better get off in terms of quickness off the snap. Thats the main reason I think he'll be much better at the next level.
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You must have reached peak trollage a few posts back. If your trolling is going to produce this kind of diminishing return, you should just bow out of this thread.
 
#46
#46
hndog609 said:
Sorry for the ambiguity. (and this isn't necessarily a Garrett vs Barnett issue) I meant in general when you look at someone that is clearly very physically gifted (the first mock draft I pulled up, sbnation.com, still has Garrett the #1 pick) but has some "questions" about him it can be tough to determine which way you go.

As bw suggested Barnett has been not only very productive but pretty consistent which will probably raise his stock. Enough to overtake Garret? Remains to be seen.
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Understand. I'm just sick of hearing how great Garrett is and Barnett not getting the attention he deserves. That's not the homer in me, but rather a frustration that a player with that kind of record against SEC talent isn't being recognized for those stats.

FWIW, I think Garrett becomes another Clowney personally. Hyped up in the draft over a couple of non conference games where he took advantage of an inferior O line, but completely irrelevant once he hits the pros. Now the case could be made for Allen going ahead of DB, but different story, different thread.
 
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#47
#47
The Orange Pants said:
Michael Bennett is a monster. That's a top 10 pick.
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Michael Bennett has only had 10.0 sacks or more once in his career (last year). He's only made 1 pro-bowl in his career (last year). He has recorded 40.5 sacks in his first 7 seasons as a pro. That's an average of just under 6 sacks a year.

Nice player. But definitely not top 10 pick material. Von Miller, JJ Watt, Justin Houston, etc. Those guys are top 10 pick material. Not a guy who averages around 6 sacks a year.
 
#48
#48
VOLywood said:
He dropped from #6 in the last ranking to #18 in this one. Stupid rankings are stupid.
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I didn't even notice that from the lists that he had dropped that many spots. That's crazy!

Grand Vol said:
Before we get too crazy on the D4H nonsense, do you think Barnett will be a top 5 pick?
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I don't think Barnett is a top 5 pick but I do think he is top 10 & at worst top 15.
 
#49
#49
Grand Vol said:
Understand. I'm just sick of hearing how great Garrett is and Barnett not getting the attention he deserves. That's not the homer in me, but rather a frustration that a player with that kind of record against SEC talent isn't being recognized for those stats.

FWIW, I think Garrett becomes another Clowney personally. Hyped up in the draft over a couple of non conference games where he took advantage of an inferior O line, but completely irrelevant once he hits the pros. Now the case could be made for Allen going ahead of DB, but different story, different thread.
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FWIW that same mock draft I cited earlier had Barnett going at #6 overall. That's pretty legit.
 
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