Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

[triadvolfan]

And then LSU hired Coach O. SMDH still at that one.

To me, that's the most terrifying thing about losing Butch. LSU fired a coach with a career winning % of 72% and replaced him with a coach with a career winning % of 42%. Hard to get my head around that one.

The last 3 UT coaching hires have been:

Kiffin: 4-16 as a head coach in the NFL and had never been a head coach in college. Went 7-6 in one season at UT and has a 60% winning % as a college head coach.

Dooley: 17-20 as a head coach prior to UT and went 15-21 at UT.

Jones: was 50-27 as a head coach prior to UT. He's 29-21 over his tenure here and 17-8 over the last 2 years.

Are we sure they could get someone better than Jones if they let him go? That's the entire question to me. As disappointing as this year has been if they force Jones out they have to get someone better and I doubt they would.

 

[unioncityvol]

You see top 15?

if we get trey smith and hang on to the majority of the class, couple surprises down the stretch as usual, yea easily.

 

[Aesius]

To me, that's the most terrifying thing about losing Butch. LSU fired a coach with a career winning % of 72% and replaced him with a coach with a career winning % of 42%. Hard to get my head around that one.

The last 3 UT coaching hires have been:

Kiffin: 4-16 as a head coach in the NFL and had never been a head coach in college. Went 7-6 in one season at UT and has a 60% winning % as a college head coach.

Dooley: 17-20 as a head coach prior to UT and went 15-21 at UT.

Jones: was 50-27 as a head coach prior to UT. He's 29-21 over his tenure here and 17-8 over the last 2 years.

Are we sure they could get someone better than Jones if they let him go? That's the entire question to me. As disappointing as this year has been if they force Jones out they have to get someone better and I doubt they would.

There are plenty of coaches out there who could go 29-21 over 4 years at Tennessee or 17-8 over 4 years, especially with the talent we have on the roster now.

We are gun shy about hiring new coaches because of how bad Dooley was, but he was a disaster hire from the very beginning. Coach O has actually proven that he can win some games as interim at USC and LSU, whereas Dooley had proven nothing except a losing record at La Tech and a team that immediately regressed after his one good season.

Also, it's not like Jones has set the bar super high or anything. We aren't firing a career 9-10 win guy like UGA and LSU did and taking a huge gamble. Jones was "great" one season at CMU, good but not great at Cincy for 3 years, and has been pretty average at Tennessee so far, including losing two games to inferior opponents where huge season goals were on the line (SEC East, Sugar Bowl berth). Looks like the Peter Principle is in effect 100% with him.

 

[unioncityvol]

We lost to 2 bottom of the barrel SEC teams this season. Hard to argue we are near the top of the SEC with losses to USuCk and Candy in the same season. We are 2-2 vs. Candy under Jones. That's almost a terminal offense in and of itself.

there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with tuttle, kmac, obrien, jrm and 100% healthy kirkland and sutton we beat those two teams, also just kamara and we beat uscjr. injuries cost us two games. should we still have won yes, but it matters.

 

[BeecherVol]

there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with tuttle, kmac, obrien, jrm and 100% healthy kirkland and sutton we beat those two teams, also just kamara and we beat uscjr. injuries cost us two games. should we still have won yes, but it matters.

If injuries cost us those 2 games, but we still should have won?

 

[unioncityvol]

if injuries cost us those 2 games, but we still should have won?

😨💥🔫

 

[barrylee]

there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with tuttle, kmac, obrien, jrm and 100% healthy kirkland and sutton we beat those two teams, also just kamara and we beat uscjr. injuries cost us two games. should we still have won yes, but it matters.

Thanks for saying this, it's what I believe also, instead of attacking a negavol, i'm going to side with sanity. lol

If we didn't have the injuries and we had these same results, then everyone would have a reason to flame away! I just do not see the reasoning for the constant *****ing about the same subject everyday. I don't know if recruits read these posts or not but it's not worth the risk of alienating them, in case they do..

 

[Ericvol2096]

I know why Butch tanked the season, he knew he had to cull about 10 crappy recruits and didn't want negative articles saying he was a terrible AHole that ruins kids lives so he just sucked it up so it looked like the kids were dumping us!

Genius!

LOL

 

[WhitewaterVol]

there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with tuttle, kmac, obrien, jrm and 100% healthy kirkland and sutton we beat those two teams, also just kamara and we beat uscjr. injuries cost us two games. should we still have won yes, but it matters.

How many injuries did we have in the App State game? We were a missed extra point away from losing that one in regulation.

At some point even the blind fans will realize that this coaching staff is seriously underperforming. The recruits already see it - Clemson is poaching some of the best talent from our backyard.

Jones will have another year to show results on the field. I certainly hope he gets it done as another coaching change will disrupt the program.

 

[RockyTopInBham]

Hopeful we can add another WR for this 2017 class that's ready to contribute. Seems like all 3 of the current commits at that position will need a RS-year. None of them seem physically prepared to play at their current weight/Fant's injury. Also, I know many have hoped to see Byrd and even Jennings moved to D, but with Malone potentially declaring for the draft, and potentially Josh Smith moving on early since he is graduating this Spring as someone on here alluded to this week, I doubt we see either Jennings or Byrd switch sides. We'd be hurting bad in terms of depth if either of Malone/Smith move on.

 

[Catbone]

Picked up this nugget of truth from the FF

-----
LSU was ranked 5th in the Pre Season. Stanford was 8, Notre Dame was ranked 10th, just behind us. Ole Miss 11th. TCU was ranked 13th...

But I guess Jones and Tennessee are the only team in the country who didn't meet expectations.

Look what happened to those coaches. Doesn't make it any more acceptable

 

[NMVol]

I'm seeing only a few naysayers. Most sane posters understand that supporting CBJ, interested recruits and the players moving into next year is the honorable thing to do.

 

[BruinVol]

Bruin, why do you continue to defend Butch at this point? The writing is on the wall that he is not the answer here- he was a band aid that we needed at the time. He has now become a national joke with his botching games and stupid champions in life cliches. He isn't even hiding the fact that he is OPENLY looking at other job opportunities, what other coach is doing that and not even trying to hide it? That is a slap in the face to us fans- this was supposed to be a great season and when he failed, he gets his feelings hurt and wants to go somewhere else because he can't handle the criticism that is fairly due. How is he selling that to recruits and their families? The S--T he preaches to the media and fans, he doesn't practice himself. He's a hypocrite who thinks he's a great coach and can't take the fact that the media and now most of the fans see him for what he really is.

I have criticized Butch for a number of things and will keep doing so.
1) firing jansek was a huge mistake
2) loading up on subpar diamond in the roughs and dumping them later in the process has hurt him a lot.
3) the offense was very poor in terms of not throwing down the field until this season
4) I hate all the cliches
5) S&C program sucks

However this season he lost because of 4 things.
1) injuries
2) disciple(penalties and TOs)
3) bad mix of defensive coaches
4) loss of That "dog" on D




I will keep criticizing things that deserve to be pointed out. However the 4 things I listed as the reason for his failures this season can be fixed and have been done well by him before.

All this the writing on the wall bs is blinding Refusing to see what good the man has done before and what strengths of his coaching can be recovered.

 

[BruinVol]

Picked up this nugget of truth from the FF

-----
LSU was ranked 5th in the Pre Season. Stanford was 8, Notre Dame was ranked 10th, just behind us. Ole Miss 11th. TCU was ranked 13th...

But I guess Jones and Tennessee are the only team in the country who didn't meet expectations.

Why doesn't Mark Dantonio keep getting left off of post like this?

He was ranked one spot behind us and went 3-9. Butch is far from the most disappointing coach this year but keeps getting hit the hardest it seems

 

[csprig9]

Why doesn't Mark Dantonio keep getting left off of post like this?

He was ranked one spot behind us and went 3-9. Butch is far from the most disappointing coach this year but keeps getting hit the hardest it seems

Local media spreading rumors that need to stay internal, some of our crazy fans thinking we are alabama, etc..... Local media is a big problem and needs to shut the hell up

 

[NMVol]

Media spreading rumors that need to stay internal, some of our crazy fans thinking we are alabama, etc.....

Jones' agent is bound to be partially responsible, even in trying circumstances maintaining a perception that there is interest in Jones elsewhere in beneficial from a negotiating perspective. Probably in times like these its even more crucial. We have seen the Jones camp play this card before.

 

[WarMachine]

I don't know about Butch interfering - that's just fan speculation based on a comment by VFL34. We have no frame of reference here. Could be true, could be false, and we have no idea of what amount of involvement is typical for a head coach - especially for a defense in a death spiral.

If I had to guess, I'd say your second item is really close to the truth. I think Shoop spent the bulk of his time teaching his scheme to the starters in an effort to bridge the gap between DCs as quickly as possible. When nearly all of the starters went down to injury, we had to lean on players who were less talented and unprepared. This was the result.

If this is true, we should see a big improvement on defense in the bowl game. A month of practice should do this team a lot of good, and it should also help several of our guys get healthy. Sutton, Foreman, Gaulden, TK, Abernathy, Kirkland were all playing at significantly less than 100% - and there were probably others that I don't know about.

I'm not sure Shoop needs to hire "his own guys" on defense. To be candid, I just think we need better coaches, period. There is nobody on this defense that I could say with 100% confidence is substantially better than they were when they got here. Some were good already, like Barnett and Sutton. But I can't point at a single player on any level of the defense and say, without a shred of doubt, "This player has improved because of his coach." Maybe Vickers, or DOB before he left. But the list is short.

The curious thing is that there are many examples of players who have grown on offense - even under position coaches who are commonly reviled by the fanbase. Say what you want about Mahoney, but his guys develop.

Thanks! I agree with you; we may see better defensive play as soon as the bowl game.

 

[jordan4vols]

The issue here is Mcelwein is listed as a possibility for Oregon and before it can even get legs he has called recruits to tell them its hot air and he will be at Florida and there is a story on SEC country. The whole world is talking about Butch Jones and we get nothing. The silence doesn't help.

 

[VolGee4]

There are plenty of coaches out there who could go 29-21 over 4 years at Tennessee or 17-8 over 4 years, especially with the talent we have on the roster now.

We are gun shy about hiring new coaches because of how bad Dooley was, but he was a disaster hire from the very beginning. Coach O has actually proven that he can win some games as interim at USC and LSU, whereas Dooley had proven nothing except a losing record at La Tech and a team that immediately regressed after his one good season.

Also, it's not like Jones has set the bar super high or anything. We aren't firing a career 9-10 win guy like UGA and LSU did and taking a huge gamble. Jones was "great" one season at CMU, good but not great at Cincy for 3 years, and has been pretty average at Tennessee so far, including losing two games to inferior opponents where huge season goals were on the line (SEC East, Sugar Bowl berth). Looks like the Peter Principle is in effect 100% with him.

The bar had been moved under Jones because of his recruiting. You also have to consider whether a new coach could recruit as well. We do have a lot to offer, but it is still a question that has to be asked.

 

[jspvol76]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Ty Chandler jump to 2nd string before the season starts next year. Nothing against Fils-Aime, but Chandler is a game changer.

 

[vol72]

Tennessee cannot make a new coaching hire until a new AD is in place. This gives Jones another year. He needs to hit a homerun in 2017, but based on what we have seen it doesn't look like it will happen. My biggest concern is that this year's team was not ready to play. That is coaching.

 

[Memphisvol87]

There are plenty of coaches out there who could go 29-21 over 4 years at Tennessee or 17-8 over 4 years, especially with the talent we have on the roster now.

We are gun shy about hiring new coaches because of how bad Dooley was, but he was a disaster hire from the very beginning. Coach O has actually proven that he can win some games as interim at USC and LSU, whereas Dooley had proven nothing except a losing record at La Tech and a team that immediately regressed after his one good season.

Also, it's not like Jones has set the bar super high or anything. We aren't firing a career 9-10 win guy like UGA and LSU did and taking a huge gamble. Jones was "great" one season at CMU, good but not great at Cincy for 3 years, and has been pretty average at Tennessee so far, including losing two games to inferior opponents where huge season goals were on the line (SEC East, Sugar Bowl berth). Looks like the Peter Principle is in effect 100% with him.

Except after the first two years post Dooley, which no coach should be judged for, we won 9 last year and should win 9 this year and without injuries I bet we would be 10-2 right now. so we would be firing a 9-10 win guy right now if you judge him what I consider fairly.

 

[jspvol76]

Tennessee cannot make a new coaching hire until a new AD is in place. This gives Jones another year. He needs to hit a homerun in 2017, but based on what we have seen it doesn't look like it will happen. My biggest concern is that this year's team was not ready to play. That is coaching.

I think Jones and staff were outcoached in about half of the games this year. This might happen to a good coach once or twice during a season, but not half of the ball games played.

 

[JCP201]

Jones' agent is bound to be partially responsible, even in trying circumstances maintaining a perception that there is interest in Jones elsewhere in beneficial from a negotiating perspective. Probably in times like these its even more crucial. We have seen the Jones camp play this card before.

Do Jones and Herman have the same agent? Herman's agent sure made an ass out of himself with LSU.

 

[Catbone]

Do Jones and Herman have the same agent? Herman's agent sure made an ass out of himself with LSU.

Yes actually I think they do