Jesse Ventura

#127
#127
Jesse Ventura is the poster child for the need to cure dementia in this country. Not to mention, he was once a professional wrestler..
 
#131
#131
First, VK, I am not associated with any party.

Second, any hatred of GWB by any American is completely irrational. One can disagree with his policies, acts, and statements, but to hate the man is indeed irrational. Please explain to me, what pain GWB has caused in your life that would lead to your hatred of him?

Next point of contention: Bush is not an idiot. Is he the brightest elected official in America? No. Is he the brightest President in our history? No. Is the man an idiot? No. Regardless of how you think someone made their way into two certain Ivy League institutions, graduates of those institutions (especially of the MBA Programs) are by and large not idiots.

Like any large beaurocracy, there are plenty of people delegated to make important decisions in emergencies. This is why GWB was able to finish reading to those children. I find his calm, during the situation, rather reassuring. I guess you wanted him to immediately panic? If you end up, in you AF service, ever around an infantry battalion commander, let me know how their disposition changes when they find out one of their platoons is engaged in a pretty rough fight, but that the company commander has already sent in his reserve platoon. At that point, come back and let me know what you think of GWB's actions that morning.

As for your ridiculous article connecting Bin Laden Corp., preset demo sites, and the WTC, that might influence someone who is completely ignorant of the architecture and engineering that goes into skyscrapers, and the connection between Bin Laden Corp. and UBL. It is definitely a shock tactic and it definitely works on most people, unfortunately.

All skyscrapers are built with their ultimate destruction in mind. To not figure that into the planning is extremely short-sighted and should constitute malpractice. To destruct such buildings in the highly congested area of lower Manhatten, one would pretty much need a perfect implosion. To achieve such, the demo strategy would have to be as much a part of the conception as would where to place stairwells and steel beams! The fact that only two towers were hit, yet three were destroyed, should tell any intelligent person that the implosion was imperfect and therefore was not the result of controlled demolitions.

The Bin Laden family is huge. Bin Laden Corp. is a multi-billion dollar institution that also owns large shares of Microsoft and Boeing, as well as plenty of other "American" corporations. So, feel free to come back next time with the fact that the Microsoft flight simulator was used to train these terrorists and that the planes were Boeings. I will be sure to be amazed and outraged!!!

Oh, and 200 yards is not that great of a distance. And, again, if controlled demolitions were used, they would have landed withing 50 yards of the base of the towers...
 
#132
#132
therealUT said:
First, VK, I am not associated with any party.

Glad to hear that.

Second, any hatred of GWB by any American is completely irrational. One can disagree with his policies, acts, and statements, but to hate the man is indeed irrational. Please explain to me, what pain GWB has caused in your life that would lead to your hatred of him?

Is it possible to hate a man who not specifically done anything to me? Yes. I see Bush is the same light as I see Castro, Putin, Chavez, Blair etc. They are all cut from the same cloth, IMO. If you wish to know, my hatred stems from the fact the he dragged our country into a war under false pretenses and blatant fabrication. I also hate his guts because he's a lying, arse-sitting, incoherent, nincompoop President! Sorry if I was too frank with you.

Next point of contention: Bush is not an idiot. Is he the brightest elected official in America? No. Is he the brightest President in our history? No. Is the man an idiot? No. Regardless of how you think someone made their way into two certain Ivy League institutions, graduates of those institutions (especially of the MBA Programs) are by and large not idiots.

He is an idiot because of his NONSENSICAL "stay the course" mentality. He's an idiot because he started a "War on Terror". He started a war on a mind-set, give the man a medal. Might as well call it the War of Paranoid Rhetoric, it would at least be more fitting then. GWB made his way into two Ivy League institutions not because he's sharp as a tack, but because of his family's background and money.

Like any large beaurocracy, there are plenty of people delegated to make important decisions in emergencies. This is why GWB was able to finish reading to those children. I find his calm, during the situation, rather reassuring. I guess you wanted him to immediately panic? If you end up, in you AF service, ever around an infantry battalion commander, let me know how their disposition changes when they find out one of their platoons is engaged in a pretty rough fight, but that the company commander has already sent in his reserve platoon. At that point, come back and let me know what you think of GWB's actions that morning.

Yes, but is he not the President of the United States? Where are his standards? Your country is under attack, the country you vowed to protect, so you find it inappropriate to excuse yourself from a session with the kiddies because other government officials know what to do and can handle the situation? How exactly is all of that reassuring? Reassuring is knowing your elected President is there to serve those in crisis hastily and effectively, rather than at a leisurely snale pace. It would be interesting to find out exactly how many minutes GWB stayed in the classroom after he was notified of a national emergency.

As for your ridiculous article connecting Bin Laden Corp., preset demo sites, and the WTC, that might influence someone who is completely ignorant of the architecture and engineering that goes into skyscrapers, and the connection between Bin Laden Corp. and UBL. It is definitely a shock tactic and it definitely works on most people, unfortunately.

The truth is ridiculous? The B.L.C. worked with the chief architect, so it's not really a secret. Plus, the Saudi men who approached Laffoley were likely FROM the B.L.C., so I'm sorry if you see that as irrelevant, because it's not.

All skyscrapers are built with their ultimate destruction in mind. To not figure that into the planning is extremely short-sighted and should constitute malpractice. To destruct such buildings in the highly congested area of lower Manhatten, one would pretty much need a perfect implosion. To achieve such, the demo strategy would have to be as much a part of the conception as would where to place stairwells and steel beams! The fact that only two towers were hit, yet three were destroyed, should tell any intelligent person that the implosion was imperfect and therefore was not the result of controlled demolitions.

Yes and Laffoley actually talked about this is his interview. There are certain strategic points in the infrastructure which are there in the case of a demolition. However, he talked about some building actually being LACED and built with explosives inside them already. He went on to say they want no one knowing about this, because if this was well known, your employees certainly would not want to be working there anymore!

Here is where you lose me. You say the fact that "only two towers were hit (by airplanes), yet three were destroyed, should tell any intelligent person that the implosion was imperfect and..."

How is the third building even justified? Moderate damage to the outer structure? Diesel tanks? Fires? All of the above? What makes it even more ridiculous is the fact that you claim that these "tell-tale" signs should tell "any intelligent person" the implosion was imperfect... I can't even remember how many times people have peddled the, "you're not a structural engineer, so how could you even speculate otherwise" card... Amazing how now it only takes an intelligent person to decipher what happened to these building, now doesn't it? You must not be aware of the dozens of "collapse" theories floating around. The only one people see to agree on is the "Global Collapse" one. Wonder why that is?

The Bin Laden family is huge. Bin Laden Corp. is a multi-billion dollar institution that also owns large shares of Microsoft and Boeing, as well as plenty of other "American" corporations. So, feel free to come back next time with the fact that the Microsoft flight simulator was used to train these terrorists and that the planes were Boeings. I will be sure to be amazed and outraged!!!

Argh.

Oh, and 200 yards is not that great of a distance. And, again, if controlled demolitions were used, they would have landed withing 50 yards of the base of the towers...

200 yards is a GREAT DISTANCE for GRAVITY, trut. In fact, if you were to do the math, you would find out that the steal beam traveled at over 45mph from the highest point (first collapse point). Anywhere below and the MPH ranges from 50 to 90 MPH. Now tell me, trut, if the advance of 600ft which gravity launched a 4 ton steel girder wasn't "that great"... Then what is great? ... I honestly can't even grasp the logic you used on the 50yd comment.

Let me clear this up for you, trut. EXPLOSION=OUTWARD THRUST -- GRAVITY=DOWNWARD PUSH. Gravity justifies 600ft, yet an explosion generates, by your guestimation, 150ft. Correct?
Click to expand...

I would like to hear your opinion on UA Flight 93, if you ever get the chance, trut.
 
#134
#134
Volunteer_Kirby said:
I would like to hear your opinion on UA Flight 93, if you ever get the chance, trut.
Click to expand...
My guess is that it was shot out of the sky. The Beamer "Let's Roll" story is great for American pride, though.

I think that happens a lot, throughout history, and in every nation. Pat Tillman was murdered in Afghanistan. Sounds better to say that he was killed by the Taliban by heroically storming the hill.

The truth eventually slips out on things like that, but usually the myth is already cemented in the minds of the patriots and in the country's lore. Is it wrong? Maybe. Is it healthy? I would believe so.
 
#135
#135
therealUT said:
My guess is that it was shot out of the sky. The Beamer "Let's Roll" story is great for American pride, though.

I think that happens a lot, throughout history, and in every nation. Pat Tillman was murdered in Afghanistan. Sounds better to say that he was killed by the Taliban by heroically storming the hill.

The truth eventually slips out on things like that, but usually the myth is already cemented in the minds of the patriots and in the country's lore. Is it wrong? Maybe. Is it healthy? I would believe so.
Click to expand...

Lying is great and healthy! You & Bush think alike. :thumbsup:

"the myth is already cemented" -- Bingo!

Hoorah for American pride!



.... Don't skip the juicy stuff, trut. Your last response perplexed the hell out of me. To be completely honest with you, I'm interested in what you have to say next.
 
#136
#136
therealUT said:
First, VK, I am not associated with any party.

Second, any hatred of GWB by any American is completely irrational. One can disagree with his policies, acts, and statements, but to hate the man is indeed irrational. Please explain to me, what pain GWB has caused in your life that would lead to your hatred of him?

Next point of contention: Bush is not an idiot. Is he the brightest elected official in America? No. Is he the brightest President in our history? No. Is the man an idiot? No. Regardless of how you think someone made their way into two certain Ivy League institutions, graduates of those institutions (especially of the MBA Programs) are by and large not idiots.

Like any large beaurocracy, there are plenty of people delegated to make important decisions in emergencies. This is why GWB was able to finish reading to those children. I find his calm, during the situation, rather reassuring. I guess you wanted him to immediately panic? If you end up, in you AF service, ever around an infantry battalion commander, let me know how their disposition changes when they find out one of their platoons is engaged in a pretty rough fight, but that the company commander has already sent in his reserve platoon. At that point, come back and let me know what you think of GWB's actions that morning.

As for your ridiculous article connecting Bin Laden Corp., preset demo sites, and the WTC, that might influence someone who is completely ignorant of the architecture and engineering that goes into skyscrapers, and the connection between Bin Laden Corp. and UBL. It is definitely a shock tactic and it definitely works on most people, unfortunately.

All skyscrapers are built with their ultimate destruction in mind. To not figure that into the planning is extremely short-sighted and should constitute malpractice. To destruct such buildings in the highly congested area of lower Manhatten, one would pretty much need a perfect implosion. To achieve such, the demo strategy would have to be as much a part of the conception as would where to place stairwells and steel beams! The fact that only two towers were hit, yet three were destroyed, should tell any intelligent person that the implosion was imperfect and therefore was not the result of controlled demolitions.

The Bin Laden family is huge. Bin Laden Corp. is a multi-billion dollar institution that also owns large shares of Microsoft and Boeing, as well as plenty of other "American" corporations. So, feel free to come back next time with the fact that the Microsoft flight simulator was used to train these terrorists and that the planes were Boeings. I will be sure to be amazed and outraged!!!

Oh, and 200 yards is not that great of a distance. And, again, if controlled demolitions were used, they would have landed withing 50 yards of the base of the towers...
Click to expand...
:good!:
 
#137
#137
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Lying is great and healthy! You & Bush think alike. :thumbsup:

"the myth is already cemented" -- Bingo!

Hoorah for American pride!



.... Don't skip the juicy stuff, trut. Your last response perplexed the hell out of me. To be completely honest with you, I'm interested in what you have to say next.
Click to expand...
You must have bought into the line of thought that "telling the truth is synonomous with doing good." Just as you probably buy into the garbage that "torture is synonomous with evil."

Here are two hypothetical questions for you:

The government is unjustly persecuting a group of people, labeled X Group. Your neighbors were born in to X Group and you have grown up with them your whole life. You offer them shelter in your house. One day the police knock on your door. They ask you if you are providing shelter to anyone from X Group. Do you lie or tell the truth?

Your 20 year old daughter goes out on a date with a guy from college. You do not hear from her for the next two weeks (you called and reported her missing two days after the date). Then you get a call from the police. It turns out the guy from college is a serial killer and has just been captured. They have found plenty of bodies of other girls, yet they have not found your daughter. He tells the police that she is alive, but probably only for, at most, the rest of the day. It is already 5 pm. He also refuses to give up her whereabouts, and it seems he is deriving great joy from this "game." Then a guy walks in and says he can get the information in about thirty minutes, but it isn't going to be pretty. Do you step in and refuse to let him operate and let your daughter die?
 
#138
#138
therealUT said:
You must have bought into the line of thought that "telling the truth is synonomous with doing good." Just as you probably buy into the garbage that "torture is synonomous with evil."

Here are two hypothetical questions for you:

The government is unjustly persecuting a group of people, labeled X Group. Your neighbors were born in to X Group and you have grown up with them your whole life. You offer them shelter in your house. One day the police knock on your door. They ask you if you are providing shelter to anyone from X Group. Do you lie or tell the truth?

Your 20 year old daughter goes out on a date with a guy from college. You do not hear from her for the next two weeks (you called and reported her missing two days after the date). Then you get a call from the police. It turns out the guy from college is a serial killer and has just been captured. They have found plenty of bodies of other girls, yet they have not found your daughter. He tells the police that she is alive, but probably only for, at most, the rest of the day. It is already 5 pm. He also refuses to give up her whereabouts, and it seems he is deriving great joy from this "game." Then a guy walks in and says he can get the information in about thirty minutes, but it isn't going to be pretty. Do you step in and refuse to let him operate and let your daughter die?
Click to expand...


Are you implying that lying to the country about what happened on 9/11 is better for the people or easier on the administration (no heat)?

1) They better have a search warrant.
 
#139
#139
trut, I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts...

Yes, but is he not the President of the United States? Where are his standards? Your country is under attack, the country you vowed to protect, so you find it inappropriate to excuse yourself from a session with the kiddies because other government officials know what to do and can handle the situation? How exactly is all of that reassuring? Reassuring is knowing your elected President is there to serve those in crisis hastily and effectively, rather than at a leisurely snale pace. It would be interesting to find out exactly how many minutes GWB stayed in the classroom after he was notified of a national emergency.
Click to expand...

Here is where you lose me. You say the fact that "only two towers were hit (by airplanes), yet three were destroyed, should tell any intelligent person that the implosion was imperfect and..."

How is the third building even justified? Moderate damage to the outer structure? Diesel tanks? Fires? All of the above? What makes it even more ridiculous is the fact that you claim that these "tell-tale" signs should tell "any intelligent person" the implosion was imperfect... I can't even remember how many times people have peddled the, "you're not a structural engineer, so how could you even speculate otherwise" card... Amazing how now it only takes an intelligent person to decipher what happened to these building, now doesn't it? You must not be aware of the dozens of "collapse" theories floating around. The only one people see to agree on is the "Global Collapse" one. Wonder why that is?
Click to expand...

200 yards is a GREAT DISTANCE for GRAVITY, trut. In fact, if you were to do the math, you would find out that the steal beam traveled at over 45mph from the highest point (first collapse point). Anywhere below and the MPH ranges from 50 to 90 MPH. Now tell me, trut, if the advance of 600ft which gravity launched a 4 ton steel girder wasn't "that great"... Then what is great? ... I honestly can't even grasp the logic you used on the 50yd comment.

Let me clear this up for you, trut. EXPLOSION=OUTWARD THRUST -- GRAVITY=DOWNWARD PUSH. Gravity justifies 600ft, yet an explosion generates, by your guestimation, 150ft. Correct?
Click to expand...
 
#140
#140
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Are you implying that lying to the country about what happened on 9/11 is better for the people or easier on the administration (no heat)?

1) They better have a search warrant.
Click to expand...
The administration would not have taken any heat for shooting down Flight 93. The story was good for the people. It was a story about American resolve, the will to fight, and the love of family (I believe Beamer called his wife in the process.) It is a modern day Folk Tale.

Way to avoid the hypothetical question, VK. It was a question about principles and by your duck, it proves you have yet to develop any.
 
#141
#141
therealUT said:
The administration would not have taken any heat for shooting down Flight 93. The story was good for the people. It was a story about American resolve, the will to fight, and the love of family (I believe Beamer called his wife in the process.) It is a modern day Folk Tale.

Way to avoid the hypothetical question, VK. It was a question about principles and by your duck, it proves you have yet to develop any.
Click to expand...

Says the man who is perfectly content with the administration planting evidence & concocting a cover-story about UA Flight 93 . trut, you talk about love of family, but how about the family members of lost ones? Unbelievable. The family at the least deserves truth, not some 'feel good' "Folk Tale".
 
#142
#142
Volunteer_Kirby said:
trut, I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts...
Click to expand...
Really, it had to travel at upwards of 45 mph...OH MY!!!

Take a physics course sometime. Then let me know what happens when a jumbojet flying at 530 mph does to a 4 ton steel girder.

As to your comment about the POTUS...the action that needed to be taken was taken immediately and required no intervention of the CinC. That is called delegation of power, friend.

As to why the third building collapsed...how about 500,000 tons of debris (and that is just the structure...not all the furniture, people, etc.) imploding imperfectly and ricocheting into the third structure.

The 9/11 demolitions conspiracy is the result of brains that are lopsided with ignorance.
 
#143
#143
Here is your planted evidence. Found at the Shanksville site.

bandana.jpg
 
#144
#144
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Says the man who is perfectly content with the administration planting evidence & concocting a cover-story about UA Flight 93 . trut, you talk about love of family, but how about the family members of lost ones? Unbelievable. The family at the least deserves truth, not some 'feel good' "Folk Tale".
Click to expand...
There is not a person in the world that in entitled to the truth in all matters.

When you have little children and they ask how they were born. Are you going to tell them that you penetrating their mommy? Or are you going to provide them with a folk tale?

You cannot uphold truth as some all righteous moral standard. It is not and never has been.
 
#145
#145
therealUT said:
Really, it had to travel at upwards of 45 mph...OH MY!!!

Take a physics course sometime. Then let me know what happens when a jumbojet flying at 530 mph does to a 4 ton steel girder.

As to your comment about the POTUS...the action that needed to be taken was taken immediately and required no intervention of the CinC. That is called delegation of power, friend.

As to why the third building collapsed...how about 500,000 tons of debris (and that is just the structure...not all the furniture, people, etc.) imploding imperfectly and ricocheting into the third structure.

The 9/11 demolitions conspiracy is the result of brains that are lopsided with ignorance.
Click to expand...

The airplane didn't cause the 4 ton steel girder to be launched 602 ft, the collapse did. Keep telling yourself gravity and wind is capable of doing that. Physics will tell you that rate at which the girder was traveling, based on which point in the building you select. Again, if it was ejected at the very the start of the collapse, there is a massive force propelling this 4 ton steel girder 600ft at 45 mph. Gravity has no way of doing that. Explosions do.

But that's OK man. Keep on believing Bush did the right thing. And keep on believing it's OK to lie and plant evidence. 2+2=5! :crazy:
 
#146
#146
therealUT said:
There is not a person in the world that in entitled to the truth in all matters.

When you have little children and they ask how they were born. Are you going to tell them that you penetrating their mommy? Or are you going to provide them with a folk tale?

You cannot uphold truth as some all righteous moral standard. It is not and never has been.
Click to expand...

You CAN uphold the truth, especially in regards to important and monumental as 9/11. I guess when you are lied to enough by current and past administrations, lies become something you have no trouble accepting.
 
#147
#147
Volunteer_Kirby said:
The airplane didn't cause the 4 ton steel girder to be launched 602 ft, the collapse did. Keep telling yourself gravity and wind is capable of doing that. Physics will tell you that rate at which the girder was traveling, based on which point in the building you select. Again, if it was ejected at the very the start of the collapse, there is a massive force propelling this 4 ton steel girder 600ft at 45 mph. Gravity has no way of doing that. Explosions do.

But that's OK man. Keep on believing Bush did the right thing. And keep on believing it's OK to lie and plant evidence. 2+2=5! :crazy:
Click to expand...
You do understand that a 4 ton steel girder is quite small, right? Especially compared to a 110 story building and a 10 ton jet...

Also, can you provide evidence that proves the girder was not ejected upon impact?
 
#148
#148
Volunteer_Kirby said:
You CAN uphold the truth, especially in regards to important and monumental as 9/11. I guess when you are lied to enough by current and past administrations, lies become something you have no trouble accepting.
Click to expand...
Still waiting for you to answer two important hypothetical questions...
 
#149
#149
Volunteer_Kirby said:
You CAN uphold the truth, especially in regards to important and monumental as 9/11. I guess when you are lied to enough by current and past administrations, lies become something you have no trouble accepting.
Click to expand...
The irony is that as criticize people for being sheep, you yourself are producing as much wool as anyone else as you buy into every half cocked conspiracy notion out there.

It's much easier to work backwards from a preconceived reality than it is to accept the one that actually exists. Your "truth" is no more valid than the next guy's.
 
#150
#150
He is not the blame for eveything,hell he's to busy driving up oil for personnal gain. The dip sticks in Washington are, the one's we put in office,they lie to get in and laugh at you on the way out.Personal gain is not out of their reach ither.:hi:
 
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