Why is enforcing the law wrong in the USA?

#52
#52
From my perspective people who are in this country illegally are foreign spies who should be dealt military justice. I don't see why we should waste the time and expense of providing the the sort of due process that those here legally are afforded but I recognize that this has become a nation of ******* who don't have the stomach to enforce their own laws for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Hence I'm willing to settle for mass deportations as a compromise.
 
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#53
#53
n_huffhines said:
Much easier said than done. Thank goodness for nullification.

The answers to your questions have nothing to do with whether or not enforcing certain laws is "wrong", but I'll explore this tangent.

By law, yes.

By law, yes.

The question is too vague for me to give a good answer.

In absolute terms, no. Trump will violate the law numerous times. Obama did it. Bush did it. States do it. Police do it. And everybody gets away with it to some degree. Relative to most countries, yes we have rule of law.
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Great resource for prospective jurors.
Jury Nullification | Fully Informed Jury Association
 
#55
#55
ClearwaterVol said:
Do you have any evidence that the methodology changed under Obama?

What do we do about the families with "anchor babies?"
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Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.
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High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

As for Anchor babies, nothing we can do about them now but I support changing birth right citizenship. At least one parent needs to be a citizen before a baby is granted automatic citizenship.
 
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#56
#56
BigOrangeTrain said:
Plenty of Americans dont have the chance. I know of American citizens who cannot afford health insurance. Yet illegals can get it for free. I know people who cannot get money for college, illegals can get the grants that should be available to American citizens. Illegals should not be able to get any American government assistance. Especially when there are plenty of American citizens who cannot get it.
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Getting handouts is not the American dream. What does this have to do with what we were talking about?
 
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#57
#57
joevol320 said:
they are not assimilating to be Americans. they don't learn the language,
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This is so false. Most learn to speak passable English and their kids are/become very American. These are the same, false arguments made against Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Chinese immigrants, German immigrants, etc. They were wrong just like you're wrong now.

The ones who don't learn English....in what way do they harm you?
 
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#58
#58
BigOrangeTrain said:
I was talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing enforcing the law. That conversation led us to immigration laws and it got me thinking about the current situation in America. And it also leads me to wonder, why is it so taboo and wrong to enforce the laws that already exist? Just like immigration laws. We have immigration laws in this country and if you are a person in this country illegally, why is it wrong that you be deported? If it is wrong, why? So are we a nation of laws?
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The libs want to raise your taxes to take care of the unskilled workers and their families
 
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#59
#59
FLVOL69 said:
He's right, turnarounds were considered deportations. Fuzzy liberal methodology
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Great. I am glad you believe that to be the case. I'd like evidence of when the methodology changed and how many deportations were turnarounds. Fuzzy conservative reading skills.
 
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#60
#60
hog88 said:
High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

As for Anchor babies, nothing we can do about them now but I support changing birth right citizenship. At least one parent needs to be a citizen before a baby is granted automatic citizenship.
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ClearwaterVol said:
Great. I am glad you believe that to be the case. I'd like evidence of when the methodology changed and how many deportations were turnarounds. Fuzzy conservative reading skills.
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:ermm:
 
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#61
#61
BigOrangeTrain said:
Plenty of Americans dont have the chance. I know of American citizens who cannot afford health insurance. Yet illegals can get it for free. I know people who cannot get money for college, illegals can get the grants that should be available to American citizens. Illegals should not be able to get any American government assistance. Especially when there are plenty of American citizens who cannot get it.
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Illegal aliens do not receive free health insurance. Illegal Immigrants Get Public Health Care, Despite Federal Policy - WSJ Some local governments and healthcare providers have worked to provide free or low cost healthcare and have elected to not make legas status a requirement of care.

Illegals cannot get federal money for college. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/eligibility/non-us-citizens#can-i-get-aidMaybe they can get scholarships, but then that cuts against your arguments that they are not trying to assimilate.
 
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#63
#63
ClearwaterVol said:
Didn't see that article, but doesn't it say that the change in methodology was initiated during Bush?
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Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom have just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.
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.
 
#64
#64
hog88 said:
.
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So, has he increased border security? I am afraid the significance is lost on me. He has twice the number of border agents. He is attempting to stop the flow. Regardless of political affiliation, doesn't everyone agree that "turning off the faucet" is step one in the illegal immigration problem?
 
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#65
#65
ClearwaterVol said:
Great. I am glad you believe that to be the case. I'd like evidence of when the methodology changed and how many deportations were turnarounds. Fuzzy conservative reading skills.
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They admitted that turnaround immigrants counted as deportations genius, if that's not misleading I'll vote dem next time around. They did the same BS with the UE numbers and the labor participation rate.
 
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#66
#66
ClearwaterVol said:
So, has he increased border security? I am afraid the significance is lost on me. He has twice the number of border agents. He is attempting to stop the flow. Regardless of political affiliation, doesn't everyone agree that "turning off the faucet" is step one in the illegal immigration problem?
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Just pointing out the fact that he has manipulated the stats for political gain. That's all.

You know like they have done with the EU numbers and inflation.
 
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#67
#67
hog88 said:
Just pointing out the fact that he has manipulated the stats for political gain. That's all.

You know like they have done with the EU numbers and inflation.
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Here is the part I don't get. His constituents don't want him to deport immigrants, right? What did he gain by fudging the numbers?
 
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#68
#68
n_huffhines said:
Here is the part I don't get. His constituents don't want him to deport immigrants, right? What did he gain by fudging the numbers?
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His constituents did want him to deport illegals (you forgot that qualifier). A big reason Hillary lost, they weren't pulling the wool over the blue collar guy's eyes anymore.
 
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#69
#69
k-town_king said:
Your racism and ignorance is astounding. Facts don't back up anything you say. I really feel bad for you and the other 79. :ermm:
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The "you are racist and I feel bad for you" tact doesn't work nor has it ever worked. It is the defense of a losing argument.
 
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#70
#70
n_huffhines said:
Here is the part I don't get. His constituents don't want him to deport immigrants, right? What did he gain by fudging the numbers?
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This argument is childish. Barry touted the inflated numbers as an accomplishment. Truth be told the numbers coming across increased so drastically that his percentage deportation could stay the same or get smaller yet the raw numbers had to increase.
 
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#74
#74
82_VOL_83 said:
This argument is childish. Barry touted the inflated numbers as an accomplishment. Truth be told the numbers coming across increased so drastically that his percentage deportation could stay the same or get smaller yet the raw numbers had to increase.
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What is childish about it? First of all, I was asking an honest question and not making an argument.
 
#75
#75
ClearwaterVol said:
Do you have any evidence that the methodology changed under Obama?

What do we do about the families with "anchor babies?"
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"The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now." - High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

Other sources also told the same story.

Anchor babies are the most amazing part of this whole thing. I'd swear that most people have no clue that they are also citizens of the parents' home country. It's not like they have no citizenship if you ship them out of the country or denied the US citizenship in the first place.

The US is one of the dwindling number of countries that even grants citizenship to children of someone in the country illegally - the rest are basically banana republics - or at best a handful of the larger S American countries.

If your wife happened to give birth while visiting a foreign country, your baby would have US citizenship regardless of whether that country also granted citizenship.

The 14th Amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." So is someone here illegally "subject to the jurisdiction"? You can't keep property stolen by someone; therefore, how could you actually consider US citizenship for a baby born to someone here illegally any differently than anything else gained from an illegal act?
 
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