'17 TN ATH Jacoby Stevens (LSU commit)

#2,701
#2,701
The Crimson Cried said:
So leaving us in an insanely challenging situation with hiring a new coach and recruiting did what? Made the program better? I mean the fact that you are on here criticizing the consensus of people who have been following the program religiously for decades and telling them to think logically is absurd. He screwed the program because he found something he wanted more. Is he a great offensive coach? Yes. Did he leave the program better than he found it? Hell no. He failed to consider character when evaluating many of his recruits, so though he is a very good recruiter, I would not consider him elite in that aspect of running the program.
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In coaching this happens all the time. The only ppl who don't get this is UT fans vs Kiffin. I hv been a fan and on campus all my life since around 9 yrs old, but i understand having a dream job and taking it regardless of te circumstances when it came open. At USC the pay was better and it was USC in which receuiting was easier due to location and prestige. 2. Your 2nd point of recruiting character i hv to inform you i was around a lot of teams that CPF built and character and IQ weren't a strong asset, especially that 98-99 NC team. What you have to realize is there's more media now so you hear more. Great coaches recruit these guys because they are ligts out athletes, and they help you win it all. If you want to argue that just check Fla with Meyer, Alabama now and when the were winning, The U in their glory days, USC under Pete C its just facts. Hell when Colorado had those great tms they went to Cali and recruited gang bangers. Look at the trends. Also in 1 yr it is just not possible to destroy a program. The program was already in need of chamge and a resurrection. The real issue is nobody liked how he left but all te rest is hog wash.
 
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#2,702
#2,702
Darth_Shiveman said:
If LSU targets and hires an offensive minded coach, why wouldn't he want to keep Aranda? Maybe Herman would want to bring Todd Orlando along, since he has a great track record as well (though Orlando might get a look from Houston if Herman bolts), but I imagine most HC hires would be happy with Aranda.

Similar to how Fuente wanted to keep Bud Foster around at VT.
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I think the assumption is Aranda would be staying, well, its not a given as the D hasn't played lights out... they have keep the scores in check but they are clearly having a hard time getting teams off the field. The LBs are very inexperienced other than Beckwith and busted coverages are happening.

Auburn had only 18 pts. but they actually had 7 long drives. I think its a little to early to judge Aranda, also LSU is on its 3rd DC in since January 2015.... so everyone is giving him a break.

Herman is probably the ideal candidate for obvious reasons, Jimbo was last year but I think that bridge has been burned down. No reason for LSU to rush for sure, but it would be nice to have an agreement in principle before the end of the year.
 
#2,703
#2,703
de1conley said:
In coaching this happens all the time. The only ppl who don't get this is UT fans vs Kiffin. I hv been a fan and on campus all my life since around 9 yrs old, but i understand having a dream job and taking it regardless of te circumstances when it came open. At USC the pay was better and it was USC in which receuiting was easier due to location and prestige. 2. Your 2nd point of recruiting character i hv to inform you i was around a lot of teams that CPF built and character and IQ weren't a strong asset, especially that 98-99 NC team. What you have to realize is there's more media now so you hear more. Great coaches recruit these guys because they are ligts out athletes, and they help you win it all. If you want to argue that just check Fla with Meyer, Alabama now and when the were winning, The U in their glory days, USC under Pete C its just facts. Hell when Colorado had those great tms they went to Cali and recruited gang bangers. Look at the trends. Also in 1 yr it is just not possible to destroy a program. The program was already in need of chamge and a resurrection. The real issue is nobody liked how he left but all te rest is hog wash.
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There were many in the national media that had no ties to UT that said Kiffin screwed over UT. As to it being easier to recruit yes typically it is. But at the time it wasn't because of the restrictions that USC was going to be under both in the bowl ban and recruiting limitations. As to money, kiffin told Hambone it was a waste of time to try and counter. Also, his dad took that $1 mil bonus as he walked out the door. Kiffin, Orgeron, and Monte are all POS slime balls and have zero character.
 
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#2,704
#2,704
Heard David Cutcliff mentioned this AM too. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bob Stoops at LSU either. Both parties at OK might want out of that situation.
 
#2,705
#2,705
jasonvol18 said:
I'm driving one to Tom Herman's house and there wouldn't even be a close second option. I know he has been trying to hold out a big time job in Texas and Texas could also be in play by years end. Think Herman could be a thorn in the side of Saban.And the type of recruits he could get at LSU he would be winning very consistently.
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There is a lot to like about Herman. Young, not a prick, lots of experience at the top level, it just works wherever he goes, and willing to outsmart Lil Nicky.

If you throw Jimbo out for burning the bridge, Herman is basically the ideal candidate. Most of the coaches mentioned to me are too old, sorry but LSU needs some youth in there.
 
#2,706
#2,706
LSU-SIU said:
There is a lot to like about Herman. Young, not a prick, lots of experience at the top level, it just works wherever he goes, and willing to outsmart Lil Nicky.

If you throw Jimbo out for burning the bridge, Herman is basically the ideal candidate. Most of the coaches mentioned to me are too old, sorry but LSU needs some youth in there.
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After Chaneys comments, I don't think your top 5 is realistic. Hell USC had to hire clay Helton.
 
#2,707
#2,707
butchna said:
On the EE issue? He ramped up the classless factor by answering a reporter's question: "Recruits come to a school to play for the coaching staff...not to wear that YELLOW jersey".
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I despise that dude...I get the whole "dream job" thing. Crap like this quote is why people here hate him. While he was here and when he left, he completely disparaged and mocked Tennessee. He is a pig. Figures the pig on here would take up for him.
 
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#2,708
#2,708
you said:
She does, but I get sick of all the insecure little babies on here trying to make them selves feel better by dogging a poster. Good grief, just ignore it. Reminds me of SMGVols and all the people that find joy in criticizing insiders. I guess it makes their crappy lives better. I like to come here and see a variety of inputs and opinions, not to see people try call out others.
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So you called her out because you don't like seeing people call out others. okay.

:crazy:
 
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#2,710
#2,710
de1conley said:
In coaching this happens all the time. The only ppl who don't get this is UT fans vs Kiffin. I hv been a fan and on campus all my life since around 9 yrs old, but i understand having a dream job and taking it regardless of te circumstances when it came open. At USC the pay was better and it was USC in which receuiting was easier due to location and prestige. 2. Your 2nd point of recruiting character i hv to inform you i was around a lot of teams that CPF built and character and IQ weren't a strong asset, especially that 98-99 NC team. What you have to realize is there's more media now so you hear more. Great coaches recruit these guys because they are ligts out athletes, and they help you win it all. If you want to argue that just check Fla with Meyer, Alabama now and when the were winning, The U in their glory days, USC under Pete C its just facts. Hell when Colorado had those great tms they went to Cali and recruited gang bangers. Look at the trends. Also in 1 yr it is just not possible to destroy a program. The program was already in need of chamge and a resurrection. The real issue is nobody liked how he left but all te rest is hog wash.
Click to expand...

You say that UT fans have a clouded judgment of Kiffin, but I would suspect it's you that does, as someone involved with HS players who probably does have at least some personal contact with Kiffin on his best behavior.

Kiffin has some very pronounced strengths as a coach, but also extreme weaknesses. One of his weaknesses seems to be talent evaluation. That, combined with his short tenure here, was much more destructive than Fulmers subpar recruiting at the end (yes, I know his last would be class was shaping up well). Kiffin absolutely hurt us.
 
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#2,711
#2,711
The Kiffin fiasco was bigger than we ever knew. He hurt us in many ways:

1. He recruited a class devoid of any sustainable quality. So we replaced an aging, lazy-recruiting coach with someone who left us after one year in a worse position with talent.

2. His quick departure gave us a huge black mark on our reputation. So much so, we were "persona non grata" among other coaches and were forced to settle for a third tier option.

3. When we finally eliminated the third tier option, he left us with a bare cupboard and 3 years of continued hits to our reputation. By this point, young recruits don't remember a "good" UT football team.

Justifying his departure based on personal goals like pursuing a "dream job" or chasing more money doesn't tell the whole story. He *did* leave this university and football program in a horrible position and it's perfect justifiable for a UT fan to hate his guts.

As a matter of fact, I question the allegiance of any UT fan who argues otherwise.
 
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#2,712
#2,712
de1conley said:
In coaching this happens all the time. The only ppl who don't get this is UT fans vs Kiffin. I hv been a fan and on campus all my life since around 9 yrs old, but i understand having a dream job and taking it regardless of te circumstances when it came open. At USC the pay was better and it was USC in which receuiting was easier due to location and prestige. 2. Your 2nd point of recruiting character i hv to inform you i was around a lot of teams that CPF built and character and IQ weren't a strong asset, especially that 98-99 NC team. What you have to realize is there's more media now so you hear more. Great coaches recruit these guys because they are ligts out athletes, and they help you win it all. If you want to argue that just check Fla with Meyer, Alabama now and when the were winning, The U in their glory days, USC under Pete C its just facts. Hell when Colorado had those great tms they went to Cali and recruited gang bangers. Look at the trends. Also in 1 yr it is just not possible to destroy a program. The program was already in need of chamge and a resurrection. The real issue is nobody liked how he left but all te rest is hog wash.
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I understand why he did what he did. That is not the question. The question is whether or not by doing what he did he screwed THIS program. The answer is that he did so and very consciously. Also, I never said he "destroyed" our program. You are correct that that cannot be accomplished in one year. Did he set us back half a decade to leave for his dream job? Yes. Does this type of thing happen all of the time? Yes. Am I butthurt about it? No. Does that change the fact that it happened and had a detrimental effect on Tennessee football? Nope. Also, Meyer and Saban never recruited anyone that committed murder as far as I am aware. Additionally, if you think they built their programs around elite athletes with character issues, I believe you are mistaken. Are there some that contribute? Yes. However, all of their great teams have had great leadership. Also, they stuck around to develop the players they had recruited. If Kiffin had recruited the best class EVER and left them in the situation in which he left them, I would argue that they would have never won an SEC or national championship especially being just one class. He made the decision that put that class and several in the next one in a situation which would be difficult to overcome. He is not dumb and knew he was doing this when he did it. This is just another way that he CONCIOUSLY negatively affected the program.
 
#2,713
#2,713
Mike4Vols said:
The Kiffin fiasco was bigger than we ever knew. He hurt us in many ways:

1. He recruited a class devoid of any sustainable quality. So we replaced an aging, lazy-recruiting coach with someone who left us after one year in a worse position with talent.

2. His quick departure gave us a huge black mark on our reputation. So much so, we were "persona non grata" among other coaches and were forced to settle for a third tier option.

3. When we finally eliminated the third tier option, he left us with a bare cupboard and 3 years of continued hits to our reputation. By this point, young recruits don't remember a "good" UT football team.

Justifying his departure based on personal goals like pursuing a "dream job" or chasing more money doesn't tell the whole story. He *did* leave this university and football program in a horrible position and it's perfect justifiable for a UT fan to hate his guts.

As a matter of fact, I question the allegiance of any UT fan who argues otherwise.
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Yeah, pretty much.

I had typed out the words "Kiffin hurt us more than Dooley actually did." I deleted it because I'm not sure I want to take that position, but I think you could make strong arguments either way.
 
#2,714
#2,714
McGeesPub said:
You say that UT fans have a clouded judgment of Kiffin, but I would suspect it's you that does, as someone involved with HS players who probably does have at least some personal contact with Kiffin on his best behavior.

Kiffin has some very pronounced strengths as a coach, but also extreme weaknesses. One of his weaknesses seems to be talent evaluation. That, combined with his short tenure here, was much more destructive than Fulmers subpar recruiting at the end (yes, I know his last would be class was shaping up well). Kiffin absolutely hurt us.
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Fulmer had Tajh Boyd on board, then Kiffin told him to look elsewhere. :crazy:
 
#2,715
#2,715
Mike4Vols said:
The Kiffin fiasco was bigger than we ever knew. He hurt us in many ways:

1. He recruited a class devoid of any sustainable quality. So we replaced an aging, lazy-recruiting coach with someone who left us after one year in a worse position with talent.

2. His quick departure gave us a huge black mark on our reputation. So much so, we were "persona non grata" among other coaches and were forced to settle for a third tier option.

3. When we finally eliminated the third tier option, he left us with a bare cupboard and 3 years of continued hits to our reputation. By this point, young recruits don't remember a "good" UT football team.

Justifying his departure based on personal goals like pursuing a "dream job" or chasing more money doesn't tell the whole story. He *did* leave this university and football program in a horrible position and it's perfect justifiable for a UT fan to hate his guts.

As a matter of fact, I question the allegiance of any UT fan who argues otherwise.
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Great summary! I couldn't agree more.
 
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#2,722
#2,722
utvols88 said:
After Chaneys comments, I don't think your top 5 is realistic. Hell USC had to hire clay Helton.
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Its not really a big secret that LSU had an agreement in principle with Jimbo last year... it would seem Herman is more intent on a Texas job... but you know that might not happen either. Time will tell. Jimbo makes sense... Herman could be a very good long-term hire as well... after that I think you basically need to go looking where the Kiffins, Petrios, and Briles of the world don't exist.

To me, if it isn't Coach O or Jimbo or Herman... it has to be someone outside of the mainstream media is pushing.
 
#2,724
#2,724
you said:
do us all a favor and put D1 on your ignore list. Then we all want have to read you insecure responses to his posts that you don't like.

Heck, add me to your ignore list while you're at it....
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Thanks for saying that so that I add you.
 
#2,725
#2,725
LSU-SIU said:
Its not really a big secret that LSU had an agreement in principle with Jimbo last year... it would seem Herman is more intent on a Texas job... but you know that might not happen either. Time will tell. Jimbo makes sense... Herman could be a very good long-term hire as well... after that I think you basically need to go looking where the Kiffins, Petrios, and Briles of the world don't exist.

To me, if it isn't Coach O or Jimbo or Herman... it has to be someone outside of the mainstream media is pushing.
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I think LSU could consider someone like David Shaw, Kyle Whittingham, or Bob Stoops if Fisher & Herman say no. I think those are all better options than Kiffin or Briles.
 
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