Hurd vs T. Henry

#129
#129
Different time, different coaching staff, different scheme and much different OLs. Its highly unlikely Henry would have been as successful with the line Hurd has had to run behind. On the other hand, I believe Hurd would have absolutely dominated with the scheme and OL Henry had the benefit of having.

I believe Hurd is the better back.
 
#130
#130
Phat-Phil said:
Not me. I'd take Lewis, Henry at this point, and possibly Garner and Stephens (both are toss ups imo). No way I take Hardesty or Riggs over him. They were both very good RBs but Hurd is better and I think he has a monster season this year and jumps up on that list as well. He will be neck and neck with Lewis and Henry in the eyes of us fans after this season. I believe all of that speed training over the offseason is going to pay off in a big way (on the field and in the wallet after he's drafted).
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Riggs is probably a stretch because of the inconsistency that somewhat else mentioned, but I still believe Hardesty was a better back up to this point. Remember Hardesty was always dealing with injuries that held him back and when healthy he had an impressive burst and finished his runs. And that spin move he had was one of the best I've seen. He also could run away from people unlike Hurd.
 
#131
#131
BigOrangeTrain said:
Different time, different coaching staff, different scheme and much different OLs. Its highly unlikely Henry would have been as successful with the line Hurd has had to run behind. On the other hand, I believe Hurd would have absolutely dominated with the scheme and OL Henry had the benefit of having.

I believe Hurd is the better back.
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Look, I know most as biased with the guy at the moment, but come on now. Defensive guys bounced off Henry and he just kept going.....one guy very rarely brought him down, he just ran through people. Jalen runs incredibly hard, but he just didn't run with the same power, balance and same results as Henry IMO. Henry wasn't light years better, just definitely better.
 
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#133
#133
BigOrangeTrain said:
Different time, different coaching staff, different scheme and much different OLs. Its highly unlikely Henry would have been as successful with the line Hurd has had to run behind. On the other hand, I believe Hurd would have absolutely dominated with the scheme and OL Henry had the benefit of having.

I believe Hurd is the better back.
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I respectfully disagree on Hurd being better than Henry, JMO though and nobody could go wrong with either of them. But Henry, atleast at this point in Hurds career was way more physical of a back than Hurd is and Jalen has the size and weight advantage. Henry seemed out contact just like Fournette and loved running up the middle where as Hurd tends to bounce it outside instead of trying to truck defensive players. Not a knock on Jalen at all but atleast at this point of his career Henry is the better overall RB and much,much more physical. But Jalen has more than plenty of time to change that. Henry was nicknamed cheese for a reason and you never hear opposing defense's talk about how hard he is to tackle or how physical he is. Don't think Hurd would put up the numbers close to what Henry put up. But honestly nobody will ever know but having watched both from day 1 of their Vol career I believe Henry was the much better runner and nobody could debate that right now Henry was much,much more physical than Jalen. But my man has plenty of time to change that perception which seems to be what the majority outside of Volnation believes. Time to change that though. GBO
 
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#134
#134
KBVol said:
Look, I know most as biased with the guy at the moment, but come on now. Defensive guys bounced off Henry and he just kept going.....one guy very rarely brought him down, he just ran through people. Jalen runs incredibly hard, but he just didn't run with the same power, balance and same results as Henry IMO. Henry wasn't light years better, just definitely better.
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We both have the same opinion on this subject and like I said it's not a knock on Jalen at all he is a really good RB and you couldn't ask for a better guy to represent the Orange and White. But fact of the matter is Henry was far superior as far as being the more physical back and that part isn't even close right now. But Jalen is an incredible blocker and great pass catcher out of the backfield. He just needs to learn to be more physical and to run over guys like Henry,Fournette and Chubb did/do. He more than has the size and strength to do it, just not sure why he doesn't. But I expect a great year out of him and Kanara, there aren't too many better tandems than the ones we having reping the Oran and White.
 
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#135
#135
jasonvol18 said:
100% agree. I'm not sure I would even put him top 5. Guys like Cobb,Webb,Garner,Henry,Stewart and Lewis are just a few I would put above him right now..
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Jamal Lewis is #1 based on pure talent... he almost broke OJ's single season NFL rushing record (about 50 yds short).
 
#136
#136
BigOrangeTrain said:
Different time, different coaching staff, different scheme and much different OLs. Its highly unlikely Henry would have been as successful with the line Hurd has had to run behind. On the other hand, I believe Hurd would have absolutely dominated with the scheme and OL Henry had the benefit of having.

I believe Hurd is the better back.
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I agree with your statement. I do not know if Hurd is the better back. I think he is a more complete back than Henry based on catching the ball, but Henry was a bowling ball. They are both exceptional backs. Henry would not had been as successful running in this offense under Jones with exact circumstances as Hurd as be did in his situation under Fulmer.. This is the part that gets overlooked. Notice I didn't say Henry would be less successful as Hurd, I'm saying I do not think he would have gotten the YPC as he did under Fulmer.

To say Hurd is not physical, I don't understand that.. I wish there was a stat to compare how many times Hurd has been hit at the LOS or in the backfield vs Henry. Unless I'm just totally senile. I seem to remember Henry starting out with a Oline of Jrs, Seniors and 5th years.. IFormation with playaction and a FB. Last year we was discussion how atrocious our OLine was the year before..

My conclusion.. It's a wash.. Proud as hell I am able to have watched them both help UT. Henry was one of my favorite backs until VFL34 torched Florida.. And in the NC game I remeber vivdly TS carrying a load of FState players on his back when Henry wasn't having success.

But this thread isn't about VFL34.. 😃
 
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#137
#137
I really think Hurd is in the top 5 at least. I also think out of all the backs playing right now he should be #1 for the fact that he is a COMPLETE back. HE really blocks well and catches the ball well as well as just running. And you have to admit that through his first two seasons he was hit in the backfield more than any back you mentioned on your lists and still got positive yardage most of the time. I don't get where ya'll are calling him not physical. Ask that d-back from Georiga if he is physical.
 
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#138
#138
VoL The Impaler said:
I agree with your statement. I do not know if Hurd is the better back. I think he is a more complete back than Henry based on catching the ball, but Henry was a bowling ball. They are both exceptional backs. Henry would not had been as successful running in this offense under Jones with exact circumstances as Hurd as be did in his situation under Fulmer.. This is the part that gets overlooked. Notice I didn't say Henry would be less successful as Hurd, I'm saying I do not think he would have gotten the YPC as he did under Fulmer.

To say Hurd is not physical, I don't understand that.. I wish there was a stat to compare how many times Hurd has been hit at the LOS or in the backfield vs Henry. Unless I'm just totally senile. I seem to remember Henry starting out with a Oline of Jrs, Seniors and 5th years.. IFormation with playaction and a FB. Last year we was discussion how atrocious our OLine was the year before..

My conclusion.. It's a wash.. Proud as hell I am able to have watched them both help UT. Henry was one of my favorite backs until VFL34 torched Florida.. And in the NC game I remeber vivdly TS carrying a load of FState players on his back when Henry wasn't having success.

But this thread isn't about VFL34.. 😃
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Great post. Henry was an absolute beast and you really cannot go wrong with either him or Hurd. Henry is one of my favorite RBs. I just feel that he had a little bit better of an OL and overall scheme.

To be honest, the fact that we are having this discussion about Hurd just shows how special he truly is. To be mentioned in the same breath as Henry is a tremendous honor.
 
#139
#139
Wow, I love all these backs, and I know no one is per se bashing Hurd, but some of y'all need to come to some quick realizations here. Point number one, every single back that has been named "better" than Hurd (and I have watched ALL of them) ran through a power I formation utilizing a road-grading O-Line, even the modern ones listed from other schools (Save Dalvin Cook, who doesn't even play the same style as Hurd or any of the others.)

All of your stats are great and all, but if you look at EVERY power-based back that has been in a Spread-style scheme, their numbers drop without exception. The Power I utilizes a 10 yard headstart before the back even hits the line, with little to no sideways movement, allowing a runner with a power style to get a full head of steam before contact is EVER MADE.

In a spread, the back typically has a stutter step before even beginning his burst, is more aligned with long-developing outside runs, and is more suited for elusive backs that can cut people right out their shoes, ala Cook.

Hurd's yards after contact stats are INSANE. Then, in the ONE game where Hurd was utilized in a power I setting, for all of three plays against a top 15 team, Hurd averaged over TEN yards a carry out of that formation. I don't know how often y'all really take that into consideration.

And of course he doesn't break the long runs, he's 6'4" and 240 lbs running a scheme made for a back Kamara's size! If you track him on his long runs, which are almost exclusively to the outside, as the scheme mostly goes, he will outrun much smaller "faster" players to the outside, turn the corner, and gain maybe five yards after outsprinting the fastest defenders on the opposing team for 15-20 yards. Yea, after all that mess, I think anyone that big should be exhausted, much less carry the ball the rest of the drive and do it over and over again.

One guy mentioned his lack of stiff arm, which commentators and analysts have been pointing out as a strength since his freshman year, and he uses it often to mash defenders to the dirt, because even if you are fast enough to beat him to the corner, he decides he is just going to take it from you anyways. The man is ridiculously physical, and one could say many big run possibilities were lost because he went SEEKING contact. Not to mention when you go watch all of his runs, he ends the play still standing straight up on 80% of them, shrugging off defenders that have launched their entire bodies at him to push him out of bounds.

All that being said, Hurd hasn't earned "best ever" status until he shows an ability to break long runs, which has to come from both adjustment in scheme and maturation as a runner in addition to his explosiveness training.

Until then, I can't give him any more of a nod than one could give Henry, Lewis, Webb, Cobb, Garner, or Stephens. Even if he doesn't though, he still has his own argument he can make as is. He just won't win anyone over that needs some flashiness in their number one back. He's shown remarkable reliability. That puts him in the conversation. Now he just needs the flash.
 
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#140
#140
Adding to my earlier post:

Top CFB RBs to watch in 2016

Jalen Hurd, Tennessee: Hurd averaged just 1.9 yards per carry before first contact, which means he had to work overtime last season to make up for some of his offensive line's deficiencies. At 6-4, 240 pounds, he's big, athletic, fast and no fun to tackle when he squares up his pads and drives through contact. Hurd has some physical attributes that are fairly rare, so 2016 could be a special season for him.
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LSU's Leonard Fournette leads top CFB RBs to watch in 2016 - NFL.com
 
#141
#141
One thing that has been mentioned, but seemingly overlooked, is the fact that Hurd is even in the conversation with all these legends at this point in his career.... I haven't looked back and checked all the numbers, but I think it's pretty safe to say that his stat line going into his Jr. year looks better than most, if not all running backs to ever wear orange. Lewis is the only back I can recall that got significant carries from day 1, with most of them not seeing the field until their second year and not becoming the #1 back until their third year. Why? For similar reasons the NFL doesn't allow players to be drafted until they are 3 years removed from high school.... there is a vast difference in the maturity (mind & body) of an 18 yr old as opposed to a 21 yr old, and MOST guys just aren't physically ready to handle the grind of a full schedule of big boy football until they get a couple years under their belt. He's bigger, stronger, faster than he's ever been, and he's just now entering his "prime" as a collegiate athlete. I'm not making the argument that he's the best in UT history (yet...), but I do believe his best has yet to come and when it's all said and done, he'll be a name that we will most certainly mention every time this topic comes up from now on.

Ps. If UT still ran out of the I, he'd be putting up video game numbers. He's not the ideal back for an offense built around spread concepts, but he's adjusted pretty dang well while having to do so on the fly. And speaking of fly, I hope he gets to square up on that annoying Tabor kid at UF and steps on his facemask after he bulldozes him.

That is all. Is it Thursday yet?? GBO
 
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