The apparent disconnect between store closings, the stock market, and the economy

#76
#76
SpaceCoastVol said:
I was on the employee bus the other day from the parking lot to the airport. It was 5am. There were 20 people on the bus and 16 of them were staring into their devices. 4 or 5 were carrying on a text conversation. AT 5 freakin am in the morning! wtf people, put the damned things down for a few minutes.
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How many were posting to VN forums?
 
#79
#79
to weigh in on the mall thing I think we are starting to see a switch back to the Main Street model. lots of towns redeveloping their centers bringing in small businesses. its happening all over Atlanta, both in the city and in the burbs. Too early to tell if its a healthy trend but I think you will continue to see a regression from the big box shopping centers.
 
#80
#80
LouderVol said:
to weigh in on the mall thing I think we are starting to see a switch back to the Main Street model. lots of towns redeveloping their centers bringing in small businesses. its happening all over Atlanta, both in the city and in the burbs. Too early to tell if its a healthy trend but I think you will continue to see a regression from the big box shopping centers.
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I don't know how malls ever made it to begin with. Their prices were exorbitant. No wonder Macey's is in trouble. Who can afford to shop there, and if you can, why would you?
 
#81
#81
SpaceCoastVol said:
I don't know how malls ever made it to begin with. Their prices were exorbitant. No wonder Macey's is in trouble. Who can afford to shop there, and if you can, why would you?
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malls made sense as centralized centers of trade in a car fueled suburban blight situation. but now that you are seeing the collapse of the suburbs the malls don't have the support they did. and it might also be part of the culture of today, it was cool to shop at malls, now it is cool to walk around a city center to buy before heading to a show or the park or whatever.

if malls were smart they would start get some other uses in. and I don't know of a trend yet where it has happened but I wouldn't be shocked if they started putting in some residential or office spaces. something to keep people around. it would require major redevelopment but it might save the building.
 
#82
#82
I went to Costo the other day.
no threat of the internet. it was a damn zoo. I don't get it. i hated the selection.
 
#83
#83
LouderVol said:
malls made sense as centralized centers of trade in a car fueled suburban blight situation. but now that you are seeing the collapse of the suburbs the malls don't have the support they did. and it might also be part of the culture of today, it was cool to shop at malls, now it is cool to walk around a city center to buy before heading to a show or the park or whatever.

if malls were smart they would start get some other uses in. and I don't know of a trend yet where it has happened but I wouldn't be shocked if they started putting in some residential or office spaces. something to keep people around. it would require major redevelopment but it might save the building.
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already staring to see malls put in more attration like businesses.
 
#85
#85
Roustabout said:
I went to Costo the other day.
no threat of the internet. it was a damn zoo. I don't get it. i hated the selection.
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CostCo is an interesting business model. They break even selling merchandise and their profit equates with the annual membership fees they charge.
 
#86
#86
Consumers will always want an option to make a purchase and have their goods in hand immediately. The question is going to be "who will own that space?". Amazon will expand vertically anywhere that they expect to eventually take the most dollars to their bottom line. Delivery appears to be the costs they're focusing on right now.
 
#87
#87
LouderVol said:
to weigh in on the mall thing I think we are starting to see a switch back to the Main Street model. lots of towns redeveloping their centers bringing in small businesses. its happening all over Atlanta, both in the city and in the burbs. Too early to tell if its a healthy trend but I think you will continue to see a regression from the big box shopping centers.
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This. Retail always evolves just as we see people migrate between rural, suburban and urban.

Macy's closing stores isn't about some grand change - it is a long time shift from the outdated "department store" model to other forms of retailing.

As for "over-stored" on reason we are different than Europe or Japan is the size of our country. We have tons of suburban and near rural areas that have cheap land for mega stores. It's part of a cultural difference rather than some immutable law of retail sq ft per capita that we are grossly violating.

So do markets and suppliers evolve? Yes, nothing new. Is this a harbinger of some seismic shift? No. Does it have anything to do with Trump? No. Hillary? No.
 
#88
#88
LouderVol said:
to weigh in on the mall thing I think we are starting to see a switch back to the Main Street model. lots of towns redeveloping their centers bringing in small businesses. its happening all over Atlanta, both in the city and in the burbs. Too early to tell if its a healthy trend but I think you will continue to see a regression from the big box shopping centers.
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No way in hell I'm going to drive into town and then have to pay to park.
 
#89
#89
AM64 said:
No way in hell I'm going to drive into town and then have to pay to park.
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If city planners only realized how much of a deterrent and/or inconvenience that is to people visiting the city...

Parking is a big issue. If they provided more parking garages that allowed you to park for free if you made a purchase in downtown, that might be an option.
 
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#90
#90
I wear alot of Polo and Nautica.

Nautica dress shirts just fit me right for some reason more than alot of others.

I haven't paid retail for either in almost 10 years.

Steinmart, TJ Maxx and the polo and Nautica outlets at oprymills mills are half what the retail price is.

Why pay 120 for a sweater u can get at their outlet for 49.
 
#91
#91
NEOCON said:
I wear alot of Polo and Nautica.

Nautica dress shirts just fit me right for some reason more than alot of others.

I haven't paid retail for either in almost 10 years.

Steinmart, TJ Maxx and the polo and Nautica outlets at oprymills mills are half what the retail price is.

Why pay 120 for a sweater u can get at their outlet for 49.
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Lol you fall for the trap
 
#92
#92
lawgator1 said:
So yesterday Macy's stock climbs 17 % in one day when it announces that it is going to close 100 stores. I would like to discuss the economic and philosophical questions about "value" that we attach to that.

On the one hand, people working at 100 stores are about to get fired. Haven't seen the numbers, but what's that? At least 10,000 people, right? So it hurts them financially, at least for awhile. And it is another nick adding to the continued hemorrhaging of the middle class, which we just don't need.

So in a sense, when I heard this, I thought it was bad news for the economy.

But then of course, the stock goes up. Now I understand why, in that it means they are getting rid of 100 underperforming stores, but is no one taking account of the fact that this is a problem for the business model of brick and mortar retailers? I mean, the whole sector got a nice bump. For failure? For a long term problem?

Then I heard a guy on CNBC talking about how "over-stored" the US is, relative to the rest of the world. We have 7.3 feet of retail space for every person in the country. Japan and France have 1.7 sq ft. The UK has 1.3 sq ft.

Here's an article about it.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/11/macys-finally-starts-addressing-the-overstored-retail-landscape.html

So what we have, it seems to me, is further confirmation of the shift in the economy, away from traditional models for sales, and towards the internet and technology. Good news for the investment class, but bad news for workers?

Is this what Trump is tapping into? I think it is. I think its the fear of the inevitable shift to new tech and industries that has this huge swath of millions of people just terribly depressed at their prospects 5 and 10 years from now.

I don't know. I guess its glee for some, disaster for others.
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doesn't America have more people than Japan and France? i can understand why we would have more store footage. that is free market, those Macy's workers will find other jobs if they look. it doesn't mean those workers are doomed. Lawgaytor, this will be a good chance for you to help a laid off macy's worker.
 
#94
#94
AM64 said:
No way in hell I'm going to drive into town and then have to pay to park.
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most new renovations to town centers are getting rid of paid parking. and each parking spot is expensive AF to build. IIRC its something like 25k per 9x18. but you are seeing a lot of parallel parking, and herringbone (diagonal) in front. for the city planning side the fundamental difference between big box and main street is having pedestrian access to the buildings, and the cars are somewhere else. So yes you have to park and walk; but it makes the experience better, safer and more profitable to everyone. no one wants to cross a parking lot to get to a shopping center.
 
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