Ukraine II: The Fight Against Russian Aggression

#1,801
#1,801
LouderVol said:
yes so Russia started in 1991, NATO is a good bit older than that.

so Russia is expanding in response to Montenegro? Napoleon complex much?
Click to expand...

Russia started way before then, for the non history majors...

Russia is expanding in response to NATO expansion...would that not be fair?
 
#1,802
#1,802
Pacer92 said:
Dude, can you at least get into this millenium?

Your Hitler, Czechoslovakia and pre-WW2 stuff is amusing, but...

The thing is, none of you can willingly admit that your own government forced the hand of Putin by staging a coup on his doorstep. You keep ignoring this simple FACT, because if you acknowledge such, you have no ground to stand on...

Read something outside of the brainwashing MSM and educate yourself...
Click to expand...

Hitler 1938: Germany is invading Czechoslovakia to protect German minorities.

Putin 2014: Russia is invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea to protect Russian minorities.


Putin 2016: Russia is invading Ukraine because the Ukrainians attacked a border crossing.

Hitler 1939: Germany invades Poland because the Poles attacked Gleiwitz.

I'm pretty sure it the uprising in Ukraine began when Yanukovych suspended the signing of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement. Yanukovych announced his intention to sign the agreement but after Putin gave him a little nug and put some money in his pocket he refused to sign it at the last minute. Instead Yanukovych signed a treaty and multibillion-dollar loan with Russia. After all it was Aleksandr Musienko, the head of the GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate of Russia) who said "Ukraine had proven it could not exist as an independent, sovereign state." So don't try to blame the West for a situation that was caused by Russia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,803
#1,803
carlos86 said:
Hitler 1938: Germany is invading Czechoslovakia to protect German minorities.

Putin 2014: Russia is invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea to protect Russian minorities.


Putin 2016: Russia is invading Ukraine because the Ukrainians attacked a border crossing.

Hitler 1939: Germany invades Poland because the Poles attacked Gleiwitz.

I'm pretty sure it the uprising in Ukraine began when Yanukovych suspended the signing of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement. Yanukovych announced his intention to sign the agreement but after Putin gave him a little nug and put some money in his pocket he refused to sign it at the last minute. Instead Yanukovych signed a treaty and multibillion-dollar loan with Russia. After all it was Aleksandr Musienko, the head of the GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate of Russia) who said "Ukraine had proven it could not exist as an independent, sovereign state." So don't try to blame the West for a situation that was caused by Russia.
Click to expand...

Putin gave him a little nug and money? Link?

Was Yanukovych corrupt? Sure he was....what politician isn't?

He opted for a contract(not a treaty) that kept economic and cultural alliances in balance with existing ones...

Ukraine is tied to Russia historically, economically, culturally and linguistically...

Paid thugs aren't going to dismember that overnight...
 
#1,805
#1,805
Burhead said:
Not anymore, not since the Russians started killing innocent Ukrainians.
Click to expand...

Obviously you're uniculcated...

Did you see this on CNN or read it in the Enquirer?

The downright refusal of the sheep to see that Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians because of our government...sad stuff..
 
Last edited:
#1,806
#1,806
Pacer92 said:
Obviously you're uniculcated...

Did you see this on CNN or read it in the Enquirer?

The downright refusal of the sheep to see that Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians because of our government...sad stuff..
Click to expand...

Yea this guy looks pretty Ukrainian to me. Except he's a Russian Cossack fighting Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine.
 

Attachments

  • cossack-slavyansk (1).jpg
    cossack-slavyansk (1).jpg
    65.2 KB · Views: 1
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#1,808
#1,808
carlos86 said:
From what I read on his blog he said it was Trump's desire to please dictators and his comments on NATO and Crimea.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Trump's Crimea comments seemed to be a turning point in Schindler's thoughts on him, but I was wondering what the specific turning point was. Maybe it was just a collection of things, culminating in the Crimean comments.

Speaking of Trump, besides parroting Kremlin agitprop, it's struck me how much his style his similar to that of the Kremlin's besides his inability to control himself. Here is a brief, and certainly not exhaustive list, of the Kremlin and Trump approaches to propaganda:

1. When you've done or said something wrong, admit no fault ever.

2. When you're accused of wrongdoing, double down on your self-proclaimed blamelessness and accuse your opponents of doing the same thing you're accused of doing.

3. Throw misinformation and disinformation out into the public sphere, see what sticks, and then roll with it.

4. Portray yourself as a persistent - yet strong - victim, who simply desires what's best for all but is unfortunately inhibited from delivering on that due to the powers that be.
 
#1,809
#1,809
The whole "Ukraine and Russia were brother nations until the Americans came and ruined it all with the 2014 coup" Kremlin shtick is so ignorant of the entire history of Ukraine and Russia and of Ukrainians and Russians and of the long history of Ukrainian nationalism that it would be laughable if not so dangerous.

The entire modern history of the Ukrainian state has been a grappling with Russian control and intrusion. The Maidan was the Ukrainian people, exhausted with this extensive history of Russian intrusion, deciding to give a great big "F-you!" to the Kremlin. It was a revolution to rid Russian influence and control from domestic Ukrainian affairs. Unfortunately, for the Ukrainians, the outcome went about as well to be expected when you give Moscow the middle finger in that part of the world.

Honestly, how doesn't everyone understand this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#1,810
#1,810
carlos86 said:
Yea this guy looks pretty Ukrainian to me. Except he's a Russian Cossack fighting Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Is that a recent picture? If so, then I'm surprised that ole' Moz hasn't been killed yet or at least hasn't been arrested for war crimes and hanged.
 
#1,814
#1,814
volprof said:
Yeah, Trump's Crimea comments seemed to be a turning point in Schindler's thoughts on him, but I was wondering what the specific turning point was. Maybe it was just a collection of things, culminating in the Crimean comments.

Speaking of Trump, besides parroting Kremlin agitprop, it's struck me how much his style his similar to that of the Kremlin's besides his inability to control himself. Here is a brief, and certainly not exhaustive list, of the Kremlin and Trump approaches to propaganda:

1. When you've done or said something wrong, admit no fault ever.

2. When you're accused of wrongdoing, double down on your self-proclaimed blamelessness and accuse your opponents of doing the same thing you're accused of doing.

3. Throw misinformation and disinformation out into the public sphere, see what sticks, and then roll with it.

4. Portray yourself as a persistent - yet strong - victim, who simply desires what's best for all but is unfortunately inhibited from delivering on that due to the powers that be.
Click to expand...

Pulled those directly from the Clinton playbook I see.
 
#1,815
#1,815
Pacer92 said:
The Russians don't want to take Ukraine. That is propaganda.

The fact is, the US has always seen Ukraine as a the key stepping stone in its globalistic agenda of regime change in Russia. They couldn't remove a Pro Russian leader out of Ukraine through the polls, so they planned and funded a coup to do it, all the while, demonizing Russia as the monster...

The people of Crimea and Eatern Ukraine did not recognize the new hand placed puppets as the rightful authority in Ukraine. Crimea voted to leave. Eastern Ukraine was invaded for not bowing down. Russia said you're not taking over this region of mostly ethnic Russians without a fight...

Russia doesn't want Ukraine. They just don't want NATO missiles on their border, and I don't blame them...
Click to expand...

My point is more about the means than the justification. Coups and elections, rigged or otherwise, are much easier on the common folk than the burn and pillage of traditional military.

I guess Russia's intelligence services aren't what they used to be.
 
#1,816
#1,816
Pacer92 said:
Russia started way before then, for the non history majors...

Russia is expanding in response to NATO expansion...would that not be fair?
Click to expand...

so Montengero scares Russia? That would be like Russia and Lichtenstein forming an alliance, no one should care.

And again you are missing the part where if Russia =/= the USSR then modern Russia can't claim its past from 100+ years ago.

I can't think of another example of this happening except for states that formed from larger ones. Can Kazakhstan claim to be Russia because of the same tie to the USSR, no. so why can modern Russia do it? (Hint, just because they have the same name doesn't make them the same country)

either you accept the above or you accept the whole time line, and not just the parts without the USSR.
 
#1,818
#1,818
carlos86 said:
I'm pretty sure it the uprising in Ukraine began when Yanukovych suspended the signing of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement. Yanukovych announced his intention to sign the agreement but after Putin gave him a little nug and put some money in his pocket he refused to sign it at the last minute. Instead Yanukovych signed a treaty and multibillion-dollar loan with Russia. After all it was Aleksandr Musienko, the head of the GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate of Russia) who said "Ukraine had proven it could not exist as an independent, sovereign state." So don't try to blame the West for a situation that was caused by Russia.
Click to expand...

Even in retrospect, you guys don't even want to concede the point that Ukraine not joining the EU in any form or fashion would have been the better move.
 
#1,819
#1,819
Rasputin_Vol said:
Even in retrospect, you guys don't even want to concede the point that Ukraine not joining the EU in any form or fashion would have been the better move.
Click to expand...

Relative to what? As opposed to being in the Eurasian Union, or just being same ole' crappy economy Ukraine?

Ukraine would be far better off in the EU. Those who wouldn't be better off because of Ukraine in the EU would be the average German, Dutch, etc. taxpayer.
 
#1,820
#1,820
Rasputin_Vol said:
Even in retrospect, you guys don't even want to concede the point that Ukraine not joining the EU in any form or fashion would have been the better move.
Click to expand...

Even considering the violence and major loss of land holdings? Yeah Ukraine sure came out ahead.
 
#1,823
#1,823
@20committee

Putin now is either engaged in expensive military deployments to intimidate #Ukraine+NATO -- or he's planning offensive(s). We'll know soon.
 
#1,824
#1,824
Burhead said:
@20committee

Putin now is either engaged in expensive military deployments to intimidate #Ukraine+NATO -- or he's planning offensive(s). We'll know soon.
Click to expand...

Just a response to the real aggressors..

You must've missed the part where on Aug. 7-8 Ukrainian saboteurs were caught inside of Crimea trying to spark a conflict..

Among the team of 20 or so, 2 were permanent officers of Ukrainian intelligence..

Carry on...
 
#1,825
#1,825
Pacer92 said:
Just a response to the real aggressors..

You must've missed the part where on Aug. 7-8 Ukrainian saboteurs were caught inside of Crimea trying to spark a conflict..

Among the team of 20 or so, 2 were permanent officers of Ukrainian intelligence..

Carry on...
Click to expand...

Lol, more FSB lies.

What would Kiev achieve by doing this? Look up the Gleiwitz incident and get back to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top