John Adams article on settlement

[butchna]

Can you think of plausible reason for bowles to make that up?

If you have corroborating testimony that he was assaulted by football players and you know that those football players weren't punished, does that tend to support one person's story? Of course..bowles' story was very credible and why this bs lawsuit was settled.

Oh you added some stuff? I think Bowles STORY was just that and a desperate reach...and a reason the weak case was settled for a paltry amount. And the "corroborating testimony" was from the player in question...shaky...very shaky.

 

[butchna]

Let's take this one piece at a time...Do you think a witness was lying when she said she saw bowles assaulted by football players?

Who was this? First I've heard...thought it all had been covered.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Can you think of plausible reason for bowles to make that up?

If you have corroborating testimony that he was assaulted by football players and you know that those football players weren't punished, does that tend to support one person's story? Of course..bowles' story was very credible and why this bs lawsuit was settled.

Drae Bowles had a romantic interest in Jane Doe IV who had been pursuing AJ Johnson with a series of text messages and through social media. That complicates the narrative just a bit.

 

[PowerSweep]

Drae Bowles had a romantic interest in Jane Doe IV who had been pursuing AJ Johnson with a series of text messages and through social media. That complicates the narrative just a bit.

how so?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Let's take this one piece at a time...Do you think a witness was lying when she said she saw bowles assaulted by football players?

I think Curt Maggit shoved him into a wall but the extent of the 'assault' was exaggerated. I also think Butch Jones tried to shield Bowles from any further retribution.

 

[PowerSweep]

I think Curt Maggit shoved him into a wall but the extent of the 'assault' was exaggerated. I also think Butch Jones tried to shield Bowles from any further retribution.

I think both of those things are possible.

But there is other corroborating evidence that bowles was assaulted by football players. Unless it could be shown that (a) jones was unaware of the assault-unlikley or (b) was aware and punished those that were responsible then it lends credence to what bowles claimed jones said.

And of course jones is a liar..we all are from time to time..it is part of the human condition.

 

[butchna]

I think both of those things are possible.

But there is other corroborating evidence that bowles was assaulted by football players. Unless it could be shown that (a) jones was unaware of the assault-unlikley or (b) was aware and punished those that were responsible then it lends credence to what bowles claimed jones said.

And of course jones is a liar..we all are from time to time..it is part of the human condition.

So Bowles isn't subject to that condition?

 

[butchna]

how so?

Good old fashioned jealous resentment...part of the "human condition". :wink2:

 

[BowlBrother85]

I think both of those things are possible.

But there is other corroborating evidence that bowles was assaulted by football players. Unless it could be shown that (a) jones was unaware of the assault-unlikley or (b) was aware and punished those that were responsible then it lends credence to what bowles claimed jones said.

And of course jones is a liar..we all are from time to time..it is part of the human condition.

Eh, you're delving into conjecture... One person can ask what was Bowles' motive to lie under oath while another person, being just as reasonable, can ask what was his motive to lie to Dopirak in the local paper? He was no longer on the UT football team at the time and he didn't have to do any interviews in the first place.

There are many inconsistencies in the lawsuit that we will never get to the bottom of now. Two of the plaintiffs continued to socialize with members of the football team throughout the spring, for example. Which would seem to undercut some of their claims.

 

[PowerSweep]

So Bowles isn't subject to that condition?

of course..it is a fact that he was lying to the grand jury or to the reporter, right? But we have a good bit of corroboration that he was indeed assaulted in retaliation for helping the alleged victim.

Orta said he felt like bowles betrayed the team..why do you think he would say this?

Like I said there is a lot of corroboration for drae bowles having been assaulted by football players. The idea that he made it all up out of jealousy is absurd.

 

[PowerSweep]

and the fact that this otherwise ridiculous lawsuit was settled so quickly also lends credence to bowles' story being considered credible by their lawyers.

 

[BowlBrother85]

and the fact that this otherwise ridiculous lawsuit was settled so quickly also lends credence to bowles' story being considered credible by their lawyers.

I don't think this validates Bowles' claims at all... Frankly, this seems like a pretty small amount for a suit involving 8 plaintiffs.

 

[butchna]

of course..it is a fact that he was lying to the grand jury or to the reporter, right? But we have a good bit of corroboration that he was indeed assaulted in retaliation for helping the alleged victim.

Orta said he felt like bowles betrayed the team..why do you think he would say this?

Like I said there is a lot of corroboration for drae bowles having been assaulted by football players. The idea that he made it all up out of jealousy is absurd.

Corroboration and speculation seem to have the same definition in your book. You didn't answer my query on this "female witness" that supposedly observed the alleged assault and now Orta stating that he felt Bowles had betrayed the team is corroboration? He said it because he FELT that way...long way from FEELING something to confessing to an assault. What we have here is a young man and a coach. You choose to believe the young man over the coach...I choose the opposite. There isn't any videotape or real evidence to support either of us...it's just how it is. :hmm:

 

[PowerSweep]

I don't think this validates Bowles' claims at all... Frankly, this seems like a pretty small amount for a suit involving 8 plaintiffs.

lawsuits without merit don't get settled f 2.5 mill

do you think orta was lying when he said he felt like bowles betrayed his teammates?

 

[butchna]

lawsuits without merit don't get settled f 2.5 mill

do you think orta was lying when he said he felt like bowles betrayed his teammates?

If it had merit THEY wouldn't have settled it for such a paltry amount.

No he wasn't lying...but so what? Feeling something isn't assault or an admission of such.

 

[BowlBrother85]

lawsuits without merit don't get settled f 2.5 mill

do you think orta was lying when he said he felt like bowles betrayed his teammates?

I wasn't aware he had said anything but it still needs some context for us to know exactly what he's talking about.

 

[PowerSweep]

Corroboration and speculation seem to have the same definition in your book. You didn't answer my query on this "female witness" that supposedly observed the alleged assault and now Orta stating that he felt Bowles had betrayed the team is corroboration? He said it because he FELT that way...long way from FEELING something to confessing to an assault. What we have here is a young man and a coach. You choose to believe the young man over the coach...I choose the opposite. There isn't any videotape or real evidence to support either of us...it's just how it is. :hmm:

I choose to believe whatever is most credible regardless of what I wantto believe

do you think orta was lying when he said he felt like bowles betrayed the team? His statement to that effect is corroborating evidence-not speculation- for bowles claim that jones told him that he was a traitor to the team.

 

[butchna]

I choose to believe whatever is most credible regardless of what I wantto believe

do you think orta was lying when he said he felt like bowles betrayed the team? His statement to that effect is corroborating evidence-not speculation- for bowles claim that jones told him that he was a traitor to the team.

How are you making the leap from Orta feeling it to Jones SAYING it? If anything it would corroborate speculation that Jones mentioned that the team FELT Bowles had betrayed the team

 

[PowerSweep]

I wasn't aware he had said anything but it still needs some context for us to know exactly what he's talking about.

According to the lawsuit, Orta, a Valdosta, Ga., native, told University of Tennessee police he felt "Bowles betrayed the team and that where (Orta) came from, people got shot for doing what Bowles did."

--there is more than just orta's statements he is said to have made to police. Or perhaps you think they made up this easily verifiable claim?

 

[PowerSweep]

If it had merit THEY wouldn't have settled it for such a paltry amount.

No he wasn't lying...but so what? Feeling something isn't assault or an admission of such.

How many paltry $2.5 million lawsuits do you think UT has settled?

 

[butchna]

According to the lawsuit, Orta, a Valdosta, Ga., native, told University of Tennessee police he felt "Bowles betrayed the team and that where (Orta) came from, people got shot for doing what Bowles did."

--there is more than just orta's statements he is said to have made to police. Or perhaps you think they made up this easily verifiable claim?

Once again...so what? He felt it...how does that tie in with the coach DECLARING it?

 

[BowlBrother85]

According to the lawsuit, Orta, a Valdosta, Ga., native, told University of Tennessee police he felt "Bowles betrayed the team and that where (Orta) came from, people got shot for doing what Bowles did."

--there is more than just orta's statements he is said to have made to police. Or perhaps you think they made up this easily verifiable claim?

It still lacks context.

 

[butchna]

How many paltry $2.5 million lawsuits do you think UT has settled?

That many plaintiffs? That much grievance? They wanted a lot more. This type of money grab was enabled by the Obama administration. He ain't been President that long...so your timeline is limited, examples wise. Other schools who have coaches that didn't immediately suspend players like Butch has, will pine for 2.5 million.

 

[PowerSweep]

What probably happened, based on the evidence?

(1) bowles helped a girl who claimed to have been assaulted and whose story he found credible and encouraged her to report it to police

(2) bowles was assaulted by teammates in retaliation

(3) jones tells bowles he is a traitor to the team, and later realizes this is a mistake and aologizes to bowles

(4) jones ends any further retaliation against bowles without punishing those involved in the assault

(6) a cover story is concocted for bowles absence from the team

There is a lot of credible evidence for each of 1-6 imo.

 

[PowerSweep]

It still lacks context.

The context is he told police he felt bowles betrayed the team, quite obviously over the rape allegations...

why would the lawsuit also claim something that could easily be debunked if false, that while meeting with ut admin her roommate reported bowles being assaulted in a text mesg?