Butch Jones in the 4th quarter

#126
#126
ReaderVol said:
He doesn't have it committed to memory. If he did he wouldn't have a chart.
And my response to the other poster was all coaches have charts. He was acting as if only dumb coaches use charts when all use charts. Period
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You ever seen Belichick holding a chart? How difficult do you think this is? And here's something I know about those charts....
Bear Bryant never deviated from the chart, neither did Majors, Fulmer couldn't find the chart or even remember what it was for,
and if Butch is going to veto the thing then he better have a damn good reason, like kicking the XP when the chart says go for 2.
 
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#127
#127
PowerSweep said:
what would you think of a person that kept a chart for simple multiplication? "Uhh..7x4? Let me pull out my chart..who can keep up w such complex things?"

who the F needs a chart to tell 'em to go f 2 up 5? Good lord you make millions a year...this is your profession..and you need a chart f this? You can commit a more complex blackjack chart to memory in about a half hr f chrissakes. And these are people that have spent their whole adult lives in the same business.
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Reader thinks poker players get to use a cheat sheet at the table, cause charts are impossible to memorize. LOL
 
#128
#128
HoptownVol said:
Reader thinks poker players get to use a cheat sheet at the table, cause charts are impossible to memorize. LOL
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yeah..good example..poker players can do the math easily at the table to get a baseline.

A coach at almost any level but especially one where you make millions should understand what the expected return is for almost every area on the field and every down..they should know that punting is (almost) always dumb in high school, mostly dumb in college, and often dumb in the nfl..but talk to one of them about "expected return on investment" or try to tell them that punting on 4th and 2 on their own 38 is bad strategy and most of their heads would explode.

Sports accepts these inefficiencies in a way no other industry ever would. I am convinced a lot of coaches intentionally choose the incorrect strategy because fans are dumb also. See 4th and 2 vs colts, belichik, bill
 
#129
#129
HoptownVol said:
You ever seen Belichick holding a chart? How difficult do you think this is? And here's something I know about those charts....
Bear Bryant never deviated from the chart, neither did Majors, Fulmer couldn't find the chart or even remember what it was for,
and if Butch is going to veto the thing then he better have a damn good reason, like kicking the XP when the chart says go for 2.
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I've absolutely seen him holding a chart.
 
#130
#130
PowerSweep said:
yeah..good example..poker players can do the math easily at the table to get a baseline.

A coach at almost any level but especially one where you make millions should understand what the expected return is for almost every area on the field and every down..they should know that punting is (almost) always dumb in high school, mostly dumb in college, and often dumb in the nfl..but talk to one of them about "expected return on investment" or try to tell them that punting on 4th and 2 on their own 38 is bad strategy and most of their heads would explode.

Sports accepts these inefficiencies in a way no other industry ever would. I am convinced a lot of coaches intentionally choose the incorrect strategy because fans are dumb also. See 4th and 2 vs colts, belichik, bill
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You're so much smarter than every coach in the game. I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that NFL owners haven't lined up to hire you.
 
#133
#133
ReaderVol said:
I've absolutely seen him holding a chart.
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your eyesight is pretty good..you are aware that it would be possible to have informational material on a chart that would not involve going for 2, no?

I love the "why hasn't anyone hired you?" appeal to authority. How do you determine whether strategic decisions are correct or not?
 
#135
#135
PowerSweep said:
Do you think it is reasonable to need a chart?
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If anything he has multiple charts that change with each team each week. You obviously don't understand the game and damned sure don't understand coaches who prepare and then over prepare.
 
#136
#136
ReaderVol said:
If anything he has multiple charts that change with each team each week. You obviously don't understand the game and damned sure don't understand coaches who prepare and then over prepare.
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since you think I don't understand the game, what have I said that was incorrect regarding strategy?
 
#137
#137
PowerSweep said:
since you think I don't understand the game, what have I said that was incorrect regarding strategy?
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Your assertion that coaches don't use or don't need or shouldn't need charts shows your lack of knowledge. Coaches are the most paranoid people you will find. They prepare for the smallest things. Usually the more success a coach has the more paranoid they are and the more they prepare.
 
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#138
#138
ReaderVol said:
Your assertion that coaches don't use or don't need or shouldn't need charts shows your lack of knowledge. Coaches are the most paranoid people you will find. They prepare for the smallest things. Usually the more success a coach has the more paranoid they are and the more they prepare.
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dumb ones need and use xp charts..your statement that all coaches at every level use them is false..
 
#140
#140
ReaderVol said:
No its not. Prove your ridiculous assertion.

In fact the higher you go the more charts they use.
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the word EVERY is ridiculous..especially considering one needs to commit to memory about 10 numbers..it is astounding that you think memorizing such a simple data set is beyond the level of every coach..perhaps it is beyond you..I don't know. Maybe that is a better question..would youneed a chart?
 
#141
#141
PowerSweep said:
the word EVERY is ridiculous..especially considering one needs to commit to memory about 10 numbers..it is astounding that you think memorizing such a simple data set is beyond the level of every coach..perhaps it is beyond you..I don't know. Maybe that is a better question..would youneed a chart?
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Your lack of understanding is funny. In your "watch the ball and scoreboard" world only, not having chartS is no big deal.
Successful high level coaches don't leave things to chance.
And your asinine assertion that they shouldn't be needed is trumped by the FACT that they use them.
Now I'm sure coaches wish they were as smart as some guy sitting on his arse watching the game. Maybe one day they will know as much as you and other "geniuses from the couch" brethren.
 
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#142
#142
ReaderVol said:
Your lack of understanding is funny. In your "watch the ball and scoreboard" world only, not having chartS is no big deal.
Successful high level coaches don't leave things to chance.
And your asinine assertion that they shouldn't be needed is trumped by the FACT that they use them.
Now I'm sure coaches wish they were as smart as some guy sitting on his arse watching the game. Maybe one day they will know as much as you and other "geniuses from the couch" brethren.
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So you would need a chart to remember to go for 2 up 1, 5, or 12 and down 2, 5, 9? Really? This will blow your mind but there are actually people that can remember the months which have 30 days without a chart. Crazy, right?
 
#144
#144
I don't want to jump into the middle of this debate, but would like to point out one thing: "charts" or "cheat sheets" aren't just for remembering. They're for clearing up your mind to focus on other things. They are especially useful when the world's moving about 200 mph and you're trying to track five or six different things at once.

I used cheat sheets throughout my career in the Army. Wrote many of them myself, so that I'd have them available when the proverbial poop was hitting the proverbial fan. So I knew the info. But it's not a question of knowing the info, it's a question of being able to free up focus so your brain can concentrate on other stuff.
 
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#145
#145
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't want to jump into the middle of this debate, but would like to point out one thing: "charts" or "cheat sheets" aren't just for remembering. They're for clearing up your mind to focus on other things. They are especially useful when the world's moving about 200 mph and you're trying to track five or six different things at once.

I used cheat sheets throughout my career in the Army. Wrote many of them myself, so that I'd have them available when the proverbial poop was hitting the proverbial fan. So I knew the info. But it's not a question of knowing the info, it's a question of being able to free up focus so your brain can concentrate on other stuff.
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Thoughtful, reasonable post. You don't belong here.
 
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#146
#146
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't want to jump into the middle of this debate, but would like to point out one thing: "charts" or "cheat sheets" aren't just for remembering. They're for clearing up your mind to focus on other things. They are especially useful when the world's moving about 200 mph and you're trying to track five or six different things at once.

I used cheat sheets throughout my career in the Army. Wrote many of them myself, so that I'd have them available when the proverbial poop was hitting the proverbial fan. So I knew the info. But it's not a question of knowing the info, it's a question of being able to free up focus so your brain can concentrate on other stuff.
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Very well stated.
 
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#147
#147
Coaches kick the Xpt up 12 all of the time. Especially when their defense had dominated the offense most of the day.

Butch didn't figure for his defense to give up a 17 play drive, gas out and then get lazy on a pass play. In hindsight, yeah it sucked not having the2pt but losing in OT would have been just as bad. Defense was gassed at that point.

Lack of depth on defense had more to do with late game failures LY than coaching. Jmo
 
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#148
#148
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't want to jump into the middle of this debate, but would like to point out one thing: "charts" or "cheat sheets" aren't just for remembering. They're for clearing up your mind to focus on other things. They are especially useful when the world's moving about 200 mph and you're trying to track five or six different things at once.

I used cheat sheets throughout my career in the Army. Wrote many of them myself, so that I'd have them available when the proverbial poop was hitting the proverbial fan. So I knew the info. But it's not a question of knowing the info, it's a question of being able to free up focus so your brain can concentrate on other stuff.
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Spot on. I would be very concerned if the coaches did not have cheat sheets fully prepared for each game to consult.
 
#149
#149
wmcovol said:
Coaches kick the Xpt up 12 all of the time. Especially when their defense had dominated the offense most of the day.

Butch didn't figure for his defense to give up a 17 play drive, gas out and then get lazy on a pass play. In hindsight, yeah it sucked not having the2pt but losing in OT would have been just as bad. Defense was gassed at that point.

Lack of depth on defense had more to do with late game failures LY than coaching. Jmo
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It is only a problem when you lose by a point.

The thing is had he went for 2 and didn't make it, then lost by 1 or had the game go into OT and lost, folks would be complaining that he should have kicked the extra point.
 
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#150
#150
volfan102455 said:
It is only a problem when you lose by a point.

The thing is had he went for 2 and didn't make it, then lost by 1 or had the game go into OT and lost, folks would be complaining that he should have kicked the extra point.
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+1 But the thread titles would have been different. :lol:
 
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