Butch Jones in the 4th quarter

#108
#108
Wylo said:
Anyone that uses ignore is pretty weak. Someone can quote that since he can't come out and play.
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I would never put someone on ignore either. There are some I choose to ignore LOL but I'm not putting them on ignore.
 
#109
#109
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh, smashing this bit of 2015 fiction is like Sisyphus pushing the rock uphill, over and over again.

"Going conservative" did not cost us four games in 2015. It cost us one.

We lost to Arkansas because we were god-awful. We simply stunk up the joint. It was that simple. On the flip side, we barely lost to Bama because were were really playing a great game. Nothing for anyone, players or coaches, to be embarrassed about that day.

Neither of those games had a single thing to do with playing conservative at any point in the game.

We lost to Oklahoma because of a dozen or so key mistakes. Only a couple of those had anything to do with coaching. More than anything else, we were young and made young-team mistakes...and we ran out of gas in the 4th quarter on defense, failing to wrap up tackle after tackle after tackle and making Baker Mayfield look like Houdini.

Finally, Florida. Yes. This is THE game where your argument has merit. We lost the Florida game because Butch and his coordinators choked at key times. That game, just that one, was more heavily on the coaching decisions than the players' execution.

Now you're gonna come back and mention a field goal in the Oklahoma game. You're going to use that play call as "proof" that it was all conservative coaching. But that's just wrong. Analyze the game from start to finish--especially the 4th quarter. Look at it play by play. Figure out what DeBord actually called on each play, not what ended up happening. You'll see.

Over-simplifying 2015 is for folks who either don't care to know the real story, or aren't bright enough to handle the complexity of how it really played out. Let's not fall into either of those traps.
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Question about the coaching in the OU game, when it was clear that we were just trying to hold on for the win, who told Dobbs to stay in hurry up mode and keep snapping the ball with 20+ seconds on the clock? Why didn't a coach get the word to him to stop doing that after so many 3 and outs?
 
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#110
#110
ReaderVol said:
Lack of knowledge of the average "fan" is just astounding.

Lord please Hurry September.
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I would say that what is astounding is how dumb the average coach is..I mean, you need a chart to tell you when to go for 1 or 2? Really? Do they need a chart to work out how long a fg is? Can they add 17 to the yard line? Iffy...

I say that because the dumb things coaches do amaze me..things that are remarkable f their stupidity AT THE TIME-not in hindsight. And the decision to go f 1 up 12 w around 10' left makes you wonder just as an example.

And unless you are down 0-3 in a late game strategic situation, kicking a fg from the 1 is ALWAYS dumb, though nothing like fla xp level dumb. Having an opponent at their own 1(if you miss) is probably worth a point, and from the 1 you will make it ~70%...70% x 7=4.9+(30%x3)=.9, so 5.8 pts expected return on investment of going for it...kicking a fg is 2.8, or 90-95% of 3. On average you hand your opponent 3 pts with that decision.
 
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#111
#111
PowerSweep said:
I would say that what is astounding is how dumb the average coach is..I mean, you need a chart to tell you when to go for 1 or 2? Really? Do they need a chart to work out how long a fg is? Can they add 17 to the yard line? Iffy...

I say that because the dumb things coaches do amaze me..things that are remarkable f their stupidity AT THE TIME-not in hindsight. And the decision to go f 1 up 12 w around 10' left makes you wonder just as an example.

And unless you are down 0-3 in a late game strategic situation, kicking a fg from the 1 is ALWAYS dumb, though nothing like fla xp level dumb. Having an opponent at their own 1(if you miss) is probably worth a point, and from the 1 you will make it ~70%...70% x 7=4.9+(30%x.3)=.9, so 5.8 pts expected return on investment of going for it...kicking a fg is 2.8, or 90-95% of 3. On average you hand your opponent 3 pts with that decision.
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Every coach uses charts. Every single one. In college and NFL.
 
#113
#113
ReaderVol said:
Every coach uses charts. Every single one. In college and NFL.
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Yup! They do it as part of the plan, no need to second guess yourself or burn a timeout unnecessarily, when emotions are high and clock is ticking, it is a solid thing to do IMO. Now why they all still use a piece of plastic covered paper rather than a tablet is beyond me unless they're worried about weather.
 
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#114
#114
Remy said:
Yup! They do it as part of the plan, no need to second guess yourself or burn a timeout unnecessarily, when emotions are high and clock is ticking, it is a solid thing to do IMO. Now why they all still use a piece of plastic covered paper rather than a tablet is beyond me unless they're worried about weather.
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NFL has switched to tablets. I don't think NCAA allows them for some odd reason.
 
#115
#115
PowerSweep said:
if you need a chart f 2 digit math you have a 2 digit IQ..the fact that a chart is needed by some/most/all makes my point.
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You cannot name a coach who doesn't use a chart. Saban, Meyer, Belichick etc. At all levels they all use them.
 
#120
#120
ReaderVol said:
All coaches make decisions contrary to the chart. Most of the time they use it.
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My point is with Belichick is that its always game situations that rule his decision-making, and not the chart, which he has committed to memory. And
at least he can explain the occasional deviation, unlike kicking the extra point against UF when the chart says go for 2. At least I haven't heard an
explanation, have you?
 
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#121
#121
HoptownVol said:
My point is with Belichick is that its always game situations that rule his decision-making, and not the chart, which he has committed to memory. And
at least he can explain the occasional deviation, unlike kicking the extra point against UF when the chart says go for 2. At least I haven't heard an
explanation, have you?
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He doesn't have it committed to memory. If he did he wouldn't have a chart.
And my response to the other poster was all coaches have charts. He was acting as if only dumb coaches use charts when all use charts. Period
 
#122
#122
Remy said:
Yup! They do it as part of the plan, no need to second guess yourself or burn a timeout unnecessarily, when emotions are high and clock is ticking, it is a solid thing to do IMO. Now why they all still use a piece of plastic covered paper rather than a tablet is beyond me unless they're worried about weather.
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No problem with Butch using a chart, all coaches do. It's there to limit mistakes in the heat of the moment given everything else going on for the head coach durinf a stressful part of the game.

The only question to be asked is why did Butch's chart evidently differ from every other football coach's chart on the planet which definitively says you always go for two when up by 12.

During our the next game vs Arky, the sideline reporter actually revisited Butch's erroneous decision vs Florida and showed on camera the standard "chart" all coaches use.....of course, he pointed out that the chart says to go for two in that situation, which pretty much everybody knew anyway.
 
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#123
#123
ReaderVol said:
Does he have a chart? Yes and that was the point. All HC can "veto" because they're the HC.
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how the heck do you know what he or anyone else uses? And the standard chart has errors anyway..ex-down 14, score a td the correct strategy, and it is telling that no coach ever does it, is to go for 2...chart says down 8, kick xp.

My god, they still punt on 4th and 3 or less in the opponent's territory with regularity.
 
#124
#124
PowerSweep said:
how the heck do you know what he or anyone else uses? And the standard chart has errors anyway..ex-down 14, score a td the correct strategy, and it is telling that no coach ever does it, is to go for 2...chart says down 8, kick xp.

My god, they still punt on 4th and 3 or less in the opponent's territory with regularity.
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So there are no smart coaches in all of football. Got it.
 
#125
#125
ReaderVol said:
He doesn't have it committed to memory. If he did he wouldn't have a chart.
And my response to the other poster was all coaches have charts. He was acting as if only dumb coaches use charts when all use charts. Period
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what would you think of a person that kept a chart for simple multiplication? "Uhh..7x4? Let me pull out my chart..who can keep up w such complex things?"

who the F needs a chart to tell 'em to go f 2 up 5? Good lord you make millions a year...this is your profession..and you need a chart f this? You can commit a more complex blackjack chart to memory in about a half hr f chrissakes. And these are people that have spent their whole adult lives in the same business.
 
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