50 dead, 40+ wounded in nightclub attack in Florida

#1,377
#1,377
n_huffhines said:
There are two liberal angles to sell. If Mateen isn't Muslim, then they don't have to defend their religious tolerance position. OK, I can see that. But if Mateen is gay, then they can't talk about how gays are persecuted.

I feel like the left would rather talk about the persecution angle.
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The left would rather talk over scream about the gun control issue.
 
#1,378
#1,378
Vol8188 said:
Something we both agree on.

But a crazy person declaring allegiance to isis and then killing people doesn't make him an isis member. He was just a crazy person.
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How do you know he was insane? Has this been disclosed? Was he taking anti psychotic meds and in treatment?
 
#1,380
#1,380
n_huffhines said:
There are two liberal angles to sell. If Mateen isn't Muslim, then they don't have to defend their religious tolerance position. OK, I can see that. But if Mateen is gay, then they can't talk about how gays are persecuted.

I feel like the left would rather talk about the persecution angle.
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Not completely accurate. It makes it a more complex topic, but doesn't eliminate the persecution argument (for those choosing to argue). Just a matter of peeling back layers.
 
#1,382
#1,382
McDad said:
How do you know he was insane? Has this been disclosed? Was he taking anti psychotic meds and in treatment?
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He was previously interviewed by the fbi for making claims about being a member of al Qaeda. They discovered that he had no clue what he was talking about and was simply seeking attention. That alone shows that he was mentally unstable
 
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#1,384
#1,384
gcbvol said:
Not completely accurate. It makes it a more complex topic, but doesn't eliminate the persecution argument (for those choosing to argue). Just a matter of peeling back layers.
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Yeah, gays are persecuted, so Mateen is closeted and resents gays who are not. I can see it, but it just becomes a speculative stretch of an explanation that anybody in disagreement can easily dismiss.
 
#1,385
#1,385
gcbvol said:
Not completely accurate. It makes it a more complex topic, but doesn't eliminate the persecution argument (for those choosing to argue). Just a matter of peeling back layers.
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There's a lot of layers that have to be peeled in this situation. How, if at all, was he suddenly radicalized into going on the attack? Or did he just suddenly fall off his rocker and decide to go out the way he did?

Additionally, reports are saying he was going into that club for three years prior to the incident. I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in that for the moment, but I'm certain the police are going to follow that one up as close as possible.

There's a lot of information that's going to come out in the coming weeks about this. I figure we're going to be surprised at some of the facts this investigation will uncover.
 
#1,387
#1,387
Vol8188 said:
Something we both agree on.

But a crazy person declaring allegiance to isis and then killing people doesn't make him an isis member. He was just a crazy person.
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A crazy person using a guns shouldn't result in more gun laws for the rest of us. He was just a crazy person.
 
#1,390
#1,390
n_huffhines said:
Well yeah, but they get that whether he's ISIS or gay.
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Doesn't matter to the left. Before the bodies were even cold, they were already on the attack with the gun control agenda. Before a motive was even known, they were warming up the press statements.

The homosexual issue as well as the religious angle will be ignored. They can't shoot themselves in the foot by condemning a religion they've been in support of (in contrary to the GOP) nor can they afford to alienate the LBGT crowd by condemning him for being an alleged homosexual.

So when all else fails, hit the third rail of the liberal manifesto and go for gun control. Take the attention away from the "why" it happened and put it on the inanimate object(s) the person used.
 
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#1,394
#1,394
Grand Vol said:
Doesn't matter to the left. Before the bodies were even cold, they were already on the attack with the gun control agenda. Before a motive was even known, they were warming up the press statements.

The homosexual issue as well as the religious angle will be ignored. They can't shoot themselves in the foot by condemning a religion they've been in support of (in contrary to the GOP) nor can they afford to alienate the LBGT crowd by condemning him for being an alleged homosexual.

So when all else fails, hit the third rail of the liberal manifesto and go for gun control. Take the attention away from the "why" it happened and put it on the inanimate object(s) the person used.
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Both parties are guilty of the same offense. Trump was out there patting himself on the back saying that he was right all along and banning muslims is the answer. The politicization of this event by our candidates and leadership was sickening.
 
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#1,396
#1,396
ClearwaterVol said:
Both parties are guilty of the same offense. Trump was out there patting himself on the back saying that he was right all along and banning muslims is the answer. The politicization of this event by our candidates and leadership was sickening.
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Trump is right.

Letting in 50,000 refugees could net a lot more carnage than what we have already witnessed.
 
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#1,397
#1,397
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, gays are persecuted, so Mateen is closeted and resents gays who are not. I can see it, but it just becomes a speculative stretch of an explanation that anybody in disagreement can easily dismiss.
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Grand Vol said:
There's a lot of layers that have to be peeled in this situation. How, if at all, was he suddenly radicalized into going on the attack? Or did he just suddenly fall off his rocker and decide to go out the way he did?

Additionally, reports are saying he was going into that club for three years prior to the incident. I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in that for the moment, but I'm certain the police are going to follow that one up as close as possible.

There's a lot of information that's going to come out in the coming weeks about this. I figure we're going to be surprised at some of the facts this investigation will uncover.
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I know personally that self-hate is common among LGBT folks. Typically people get past it as they come out and accept themselves, but not all.

There is a reason the suicide rate among LGBT teens is significantly higher than their peers. I think a lot of these suicide attempts are the result of self-loathing folks are unable to shed, so they direct their hate on themselves. A smaller percentage direct the hate outwards onto others. This may be an example of the latter.
 
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#1,398
#1,398
ClearwaterVol said:
Both parties are guilty of the same offense. Trump was out there patting himself on the back saying that he was right all along and banning muslims is the answer. The politicization of this event by our candidates and leadership was sickening.
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I never said the GOP was blameless in this aspect.
 
#1,399
#1,399
gcbvol said:
I know personally that self-hate is common among LGBT folks. Typically people get past it as they come out and accept themselves, but not all.

There is a reason the suicide rate among LGBT teens is significantly higher then their peers. I think a lot of these suicide attempts are the result of self-loathing folks are unable to shed, so they direct their hate on themselves. A smaller percentage direct the hate outwards onto others. This may be an example of the latter.
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Sad. Hope this is changing as society becomes more accepting.
 
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