How SEC Football Should Reorganize Its Divisions

#51
#51
VFL-82-JP said:
Don't see the reason in that. It's not geographical...it's not balanced...it tears apart a lot of rivalries...where were you trying to go with it?
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I think it's balanced, personnally. At least. It is more so than now.

Ive argued all along that this is really simple. You (meaning the league) just have to sacrifice Bama-Tennessee. Once you do, it can be done numerous ways
 
#52
#52
99gator said:
I like your set up better too.

Although, i would pair up vandy and kentucky as cross division rivals
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you could do the cross divisional games any way you want, i just kept the intra state rival games intact by default.

i know the MS schools and AL schools would pair up.

the TN schools...well that's a little more one sided. the mid state though has plenty of alum and fans, and i have a feeling that the game would continue. from a balance standpoint only, yeah, i could see a case made for doing something else.
 
#53
#53
if you move Vandy to KY as permanents...then you're left with TN and GA to play aTm and MO as perms. Personally i'd rather have aTm.

West: Perm Rival
Alabama Auburn
Arkansas South Carolina
LSU Florida
Missouri Georgia
Ole Miss Miss St.
Texas A&M Tennessee
Vandy Kentucky

East:
Auburn Bama
Florida LSU
Geogria Missouri
Kentucky Vandy
Miss St. Ole Miss
South Carolina Arkansas
Tennessee aTm
 
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#54
#54
BaldBiker said:
There are a lot of UT fans on this board that don't believe the hatred is still there between Bama and TN. I've tried to tell them that it is still alive and well, but they refuse to believe.

I visit the Bama boards every year before the game just to ensure that the hatred is alive and well. I've not been disappointed yet.

That's the way it should be too. I hate Bama football. I respect it, but I hate it with a passion.
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I think your last two sentences sum up the rivalry for me. My wife's brother is a huge Alabama fan (his grandfather was from Alabama and moved to Tennessee, passing down their fandom). I hate Alabama, and he hates Tennessee. We'll both admit that. But when we watch a game together, there is this weird thing that happens where we compliment each other's team's level of play and performance. He never gloats if they hammer us, and I never attempt to downplay their recent success or make excuses. In the past few years, he has been pulling for us to get back on top, and was happy to see that we gave them a run for their money this past year. He's just as happy as I am it's a game again. That's what makes the rivalry special.

That mutual respect is not there with Florida. Florida can go to heck for all I care. It wouldn't bother me for a spilt second for their program to tank, never recover, and we beat up on them for eternity. I can't stand them, and I will never compliment that team to any friend of mine that has unfortunately pledged their fanhood to them.
 
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#56
#56
SEC North and South

North: Ole Miss, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, South Carolina, Arkansas
South: TAMU, Mississippi State, LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA, UF

That seems fair and balanced to me...

Geometrically, we could do a SEC Inner and Outer where the inner teams are the closest to the geographic center of the SEC.

Inner: Vandy, UT, Ole Miss, Miss State, Bama, Auburn, UGA
Outer: Mizzou, UK, SCAR, UF, LSU, TAMU, Arkansas

This one is legitimately a more balanced division talent wise. UGA and UT would fight over UF as the permanent cross-division opponent.
 
#57
#57
Volnukem said:
SEC North and South

North: Ole Miss, Missouri, Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, South Carolina, Arkansas
South: TAMU, Mississippi State, LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA, UF

That seems fair and balanced to me...

Geometrically, we could do a SEC Inner and Outer where the inner teams are the closest to the geographic center of the SEC.

Inner: Vandy, UT, Ole Miss, Miss State, Bama, Auburn, UGA
Outer: Mizzou, UK, SCAR, UF, LSU, TAMU, Arkansas

This one is legitimately a more balanced division talent wise. UGA and UT would fight over UF as the permanent cross-division opponent.
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That uga-ut fight would last half a second....if that
 
#58
#58
How about

East:
Tennessee
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Auburn
Kentucky

West:
Alabama
LSU
Arkansas
Miss St
Ole Miss
TAMU


Let Mizzou join the B1G and send Vandy to FCS
 
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#60
#60
East:
Tennessee
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Kentucky
Vanderbilt

West:
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss State
Mizzou
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas
 
#61
#61
I don't see a reason to change it. I view the SEC as having 6 historical "tier 1 teams" in Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia. It is split up 3 and 3. Unfortunately the east top teams have been having some issues and some lower teams on the west have experience some of their more successful years with Ole Miss recruiting surprisingly well and A&M riding some unusually successful season with Sumlins high powered Offense behind Johnny Eightball. It looks like A&M and Ole Miss are starting to trend down while Tennessee is trending up. This should help Balance it out. It is still up in the air of how Florida and Georgia is trending imo, but one will gain from the other weakness (I hope fla because we do benefit from UGA being down. In 3 years people may be wondering why we even had this argument and the divisons may be neck and neck. And hell in 5 years the East might be the power house. It's college football, and like all sports but even to a greater extent, it's cyclical.
 
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#62
#62
99gator said:
I think it's balanced, personnally. At least. It is more so than now.
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Here, let's find balance.

Over the past 20 years, here are the 14 current SEC teams ranked by # of wins:
  1. Florida (188)
  2. LSU (186)
  3. Georgia (186)
  4. Bama (182)
  5. Auburn (166)
  6. Vols (163)
  7. A&M (149)
  8. Mizzou (145)
  9. Arkansas (139)
  10. USCe (132)
  11. Ole Miss (131)
  12. Miss St (122)
  13. Kentucky (97)
  14. Vandy (79)
So if you use a zigzag seeding to balance them out (1 and 4 left, 2 and 3 right .... 5 and 8 left, 6 and 7 right ... etc.) you can get real balance from such a list. And that gives this:

DIV A: Florida (1), Bama (4), Auburn (5), Mizzou (8), Arky (9), Miss St (12), Kentucky (13)

DIV B: LSU (2), Georgia (3), Vols (6), A&M (7), USCe (10), Ole Miss (11), Vandy (14)

And since Division A's footprint runs kind of like an axle up through the SEC region, we could call them the AXIS Division and Division B could be the ALLIES.

Okay, that last part was just for fun. :)

I don't like it. It tears a lot of good rivalries apart. But that's what real balance looks like. :good!:
 
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#63
#63
VolInDayton said:
I don't see a reason to change it. I view the SEC as having 6 historical "tier 1 teams" in Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia. It is split up 3 and 3. Unfortunately the east top teams have been having some issues and some lower teams on the west have experience some of their more successful years with Ole Miss recruiting surprisingly well and A&M riding some unusually successful season with Sumlins high powered Offense behind Johnny Eightball. It looks like A&M and Ole Miss are starting to trend down while Tennessee is trending up. This should help Balance it out. It is still up in the air of how Florida and Georgia is trending imo, but one will gain from the other weakness (I hope fla because we do benefit from UGA being down. In 3 years people may be wondering why we even had this argument and the divisons may be neck and neck. And hell in 5 years the East might be the power house. It's college football, and like all sports but even to a greater extent, it's cyclical.
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This argument gets beaten to death, but it depends on how one measures strength.

I do it not by what's at the top, but from top to bottom.

There is no getting around kentucky and vandy being homecoming opponents. Then, factor in that South Carolina and Missouri are typically awful and the East will usually be bad.

Florida, georgia and Tennessee can all be ranked and it still would be worse. Ole miss, Miss State and Arkansas will never be as consistently bad as the bottom of the East.

I disagree completely with the idalea that because Florida and Tennessee were as good as they were that the East was better than the West

The idea that the top of the East was way better for the entire decade of the 90s is also false
 
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#64
#64
VolInDayton said:
I don't see a reason to change it. I view the SEC as having 6 historical "tier 1 teams" in Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia. It is split up 3 and 3. Unfortunately the east top teams have been having some issues and some lower teams on the west have experience some of their more successful years with Ole Miss recruiting surprisingly well and A&M riding some unusually successful season with Sumlins high powered Offense behind Johnny Eightball. It looks like A&M and Ole Miss are starting to trend down while Tennessee is trending up. This should help Balance it out. It is still up in the air of how Florida and Georgia is trending imo, but one will gain from the other weakness (I hope fla because we do benefit from UGA being down. In 3 years people may be wondering why we even had this argument and the divisons may be neck and neck. And hell in 5 years the East might be the power house. It's college football, and like all sports but even to a greater extent, it's cyclical.
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Whole lotta truth in here. Well said, Dayton.


...it's still fun to discuss alternatives. :)
 
#65
#65
99gator said:
There is no getting around kentucky and vandy being homecoming opponents. Then, factor in that South Carolina and Missouri are typically awful and the East will usually be bad.

Florida, georgia and Tennessee can all be ranked and it still would be worse. Ole miss, Miss State and Arkansas will never be as consistently bad as the bottom of the East.
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Your (apparent) problem is, lack of long term memory. Ole Miss and Miss St aren't Vandy-Kentucky bad, historically, but they are bad. It's only the recent past that has seen them rise. And a doormat is a doormat; yours might be a little thicker and plusher than mine, but we're both still going to walk all over either of them.

Look at the 20-year Win #s to see how the programs really compare. And that even includes the recent anomolies of a weak TN and FL, with a strong Ole Miss and Miss St.
 
#66
#66
99gator said:
This argument gets beaten to death, but it depends on how one measures strength.

I do it not by what's at the top, but from top to bottom.

There is no getting around kentucky and vandy being homecoming opponents. Then, factor in that South Carolina and Missouri are typically awful and the East will usually be bad.

Florida, georgia and Tennessee can all be ranked and it still would be worse. Ole miss, Miss State and Arkansas will never be as consistently bad as the bottom of the East.

I disagree completely with the idalea that because Florida and Tennessee were as good as they were that the East was better than the West
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I understand where you are coming from. Maybe a 4th best team from the west for a Kentucky or Vandy swap would be ideal. Each side would still have 3 top players in the conference that cycle through being the top dog while the west would get a yearly doormat team and the East would be more balanced with a Ole Miss/A&M or something.
 
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#67
#67
VFL-82-JP said:
Your (apparent) problem is, lack of long term memory. Ole Miss and Miss St aren't Vandy-Kentucky bad, historically, but they are bad. It's only the recent past that has seen them rise. And a doormat is a doormat; yours might be a little thicker and plusher than mine, but we're both still going to walk all over either of them.

Look at the 20-year Win #s to see how the programs really compare. And that even includes the recent anomolies of a weak TN and FL, with a strong Ole Miss and Miss St.
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i tend to fall in line with this side of that debate.

the only thing i would acknowledge is that both MSU and Ole Miss have a much better shot at getting to, and sustatining a modicum of success that either KY nor Vandy seem capable of achieving even for an anomalie year.

which is why i still think splitting up the intra state schools makes the most sense....and that by default should split up Vandy and KY, so both the east and west get to share the wealth of each having a semi strong MS school and the doormats that are Vandy and KY.
 
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#68
#68
VFL-82-JP said:
Your (apparent) problem is, lack of long term memory. Ole Miss and Miss St aren't Vandy-Kentucky bad, historically, but they are bad. It's only the recent past that has seen them rise. And a doormat is a doormat; yours might be a little thicker and plusher than mine, but we're both still going to walk all over either of them.

Look at the 20-year Win #s to see how the programs really compare. And that even includes the recent anomolies of a weak TN and FL, with a strong Ole Miss and Miss St.
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Ole miss/miss state are not comparable to Vandy/kentucky.

Would you trade vandy/ky on the schedule for ole miss/miss state?
 
#69
#69
VolInDayton said:
I don't see a reason to change it. I view the SEC as having 6 historical "tier 1 teams" in Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia. It is split up 3 and 3. Unfortunately the east top teams have been having some issues and some lower teams on the west have experience some of their more successful years with Ole Miss recruiting surprisingly well and A&M riding some unusually successful season with Sumlins high powered Offense behind Johnny Eightball. It looks like A&M and Ole Miss are starting to trend down while Tennessee is trending up. This should help Balance it out. It is still up in the air of how Florida and Georgia is trending imo, but one will gain from the other weakness (I hope fla because we do benefit from UGA being down. In 3 years people may be wondering why we even had this argument and the divisons may be neck and neck. And hell in 5 years the East might be the power house. It's college football, and like all sports but even to a greater extent, it's cyclical.
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Again, last year Sagarin ranked the east division of the SEC dead last in power 5 divisional play.

1 - SEC WEST
2 - PAC NORTH
3 - BIG 12
4 - PAC SOUTH
5 - BIG TEN EAST
6 - ACC COASTAL
7 - ACC ATLANTIC
8 - BIG TEN WEST
9 - SEC EAST

Going to take one heck of a 5-year cycle to work your way up this food chain.
 
#70
#70
99gator said:
Ole miss/miss state are not comparable to Vandy/kentucky.

Would you trade vandy/ky on the schedule for ole miss/miss state?
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Today? No.

Ten years ago? No problem, I'd take any of the four happily. (or 20 years ago, or 40, or 60).

As Dayton said, football goes in cycles. Ole Miss and Miss St are benefiting from an anomalous streak of good fortune. That's not their norm.
 
#71
#71
TUSKtimes said:
Going to take one heck of a 5-year cycle to work your way up this food chain.
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Just how long do you anticipate it will take?

I'm thinking we beat you up and take your lunch money in the next year or two. :)

I'm also hoping that Florida is back, and Georgia stays decent. I predict USCe will fail with Muschamp, but maybe they can find a good coach when they give up on him. That could take a while, agreed. I won't claim Mizzou, never really did. Maybe we can get Auburn for them. Kentucky and Vandy gonna do their thing.

But if the Vols, Gators and Dawgs are back, and we can swap Tigers with the West, I think a return to parity is a lot closer than any 5-year timeline.
 
#72
#72
99gator said:
There is no getting around kentucky and vandy being homecoming opponents. Then, factor in that South Carolina and Missouri are typically awful and the East will usually be bad.
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4 of the 5 historically worst programs in the SEC are in the East. Mississippi St is the only West team in the bottom 5.
 
#73
#73
bamawriter said:
4 of the 5 historically worst programs in the SEC are in the East. Mississippi St is the only West team in the bottom 5.
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Wrong. 2 of the 4 historically worst programs are in the West. Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, and Vandy, in that order as you sink to the bottom.
 
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#75
#75
Best setup: Eliminate divisions. Everyone gets 3 permanent opponents and rotates the other 10. With and eight game season, you play a home-and-home against everyone every 4 years. Go to nine games and it's more frequent than that.

Here's my take on each team's permanent opponents:

Alabama - Auburn, Mississippi St, Tennessee
Arkansas - Texas A&M, Missouri, LSU
Auburn - Alabama, Florida, Georgia
Florida - Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn
Georgia - Florida, Auburn, South Carolina
Kentucky - Mississippi St, South Carolina, Vanderbilt
LSU - Arkansas, Texas A&M, Ole Miss
Mississippi St - Ole Miss, Kentucky, Alabama
Missouri - South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas A&M
Ole Miss - LSU, Vanderbilt, Mississippi St
South Carolina - Kentucky, Georgia, Missouri
Tennessee - Vanderbilt, Alabama, Florida
Texas A&M - Missouri, LSU, Arkansas
Vanderbilt - Tennessee, Ole Miss, Kentucky
 
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