How many FRESHMEN break the starting lineup this season?

#176
#176
VoL The Impaler said:
We will never find this out unfortunately.. No team will dare kick to EB or anyone for a chance to make a return. 😢
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Wouldn't it be cool for us to put 2 return men back (Berry and Warrior), and watch teams kick away from Evan...only to find out that Warrior is just as dangerous. Would be hella fun. :)
 
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#177
#177
johnrlansford said:
Osborne and Warrior are my picks as well...Some say that Warrior may be a better kick returner than Berry, hard to believe but that would be amazing to see them side by side for the kickoff.
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Until Warrior returns kicks for a full season with the lights shining bright and the crowd roaring we need to default to EB being the better kick returner. Last season Evan proved to be one of the best returners on the collegiate level, ever.
 
#178
#178
VFL-82-JP said:
D4H missed the truly key freshmen, by and large.

He was more or less right on Kirkland, and might have been correct on Shy if the young man hadn't been injured. He (and many of us, this isn't a knock on D4H alone) got KMac way wrong. And he missed on Richmond as well:
  • Kirkland is where D4H was closest to right. One can argue Darrin should have been our starting MLB from the first game, but he didn't get the starting job until game 3 or 4.
  • Richmond, of course, redshirted. And yes, it was predictable: SJT called it.
  • KMac never made it to starter. He was in the two-deep throughout the year, but had very limited playing time in the first half of the season because he still needed work on conditioning (he got gassed too quickly to stay in long).
  • Shy played in 6 games, but didn't start any of them. He was in the two-deep. Then he got injured, so we'll never know how it might have played out.
So somewhere between a 25% and 50% "Nostradamus" grade for D4H. Remember, he predicted Kirkland, KMac, and Richmond would be starters from the very first game ("instant starters," "start from the jump")...which wasn't true for any of them.

More significantly, D4H missed other freshmen who contributed in even bigger ways in 2015. Guys like Chance Hall (played in 10, started 7), Juaun Jennings (6 starts in 11 games), Jack Jones (9 games, starting in 1), Preston Williams (8 games, 1 as starter), and Micah Abernathy (12 games)...I'd put them all up there with Kirkland and ahead of Shy, KMac, and Drew for their impact in 2015.

So look for the guy who called out Chance, Darrin, Juaun, Jack, Preston, and Micah. If anyone did that, he's the real VolNation Nostradamus.
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Your perspective is too literal. First, I didn't intend my post to be about D4H. I just gave him props on his prediction for the 2016 recruiting class's contribution last year, which was mostly accurate.

Second, who "starts" at DT is of little importance compared to who gets most of the reps. You can dismiss Kmac's contribution all you want but he had the second most tackles of any DT on the team last year, behind only Owen Williams. The other "starter", Danny O'Brien, had 14 total tackles for the season, compared to Kmac's 24 (although O'Brien had more sacks w/ 3 vs. 1). Tuttle may have outpaced Kmac (we'll never know) but he only had 10 when he went down in game 6.

Third, I commented on how surprised I was by how both Hall and Jones played as true freshmen. Jones likely only played due to injury and he may even get redshirted this season, depending on the health of the starters on OL. Hall was playing irrespective of other injuries and he was one of the most valuable true freshmen last year, I would agree.

Fourth, Jennings and Williams did not do much on the stat line last year. Williams had both his TD receptions and 2/3 of his yardage in the Western Carolina game. Hard to call that as impactful. Jennings had less receiving yards but also had a much more impactful play with his TD toss to Dobbs at Florida. I would agree to put him with the most impactful freshmen last year.

Fifth, including Abernathy as an impactful true freshmen is a stretch. He finished the season with 6 tackles and one pass deflection. Stephen Griffin had 5 tackles on the season, for comparison. Neither had a significant impact last year. Both have a promising future, however, IMO.

Sixth, good find on SJT predicting Richmond would redshirt. I would like to hear SJT's predictions for the 2016 freshmen class as well.

Lastly, I don't intend this thread bump to be a pissing contest. I would like to see some thoughts on the 2016 freshmen class's contribution this season, yours included. I shared my predictions. Feel free to share yours. :hi:
 
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#180
#180
junder13 said:
You catch a lot of flak but this was a good call from last year on your part. FTR, I don't think anyone could have predicted a RS for Richmond, given his ranking and our perceived weakness on the OL. In hindsight, there were indications that he didn't have the strength necessary to compete at a high level in the SEC, so a RS was appropriate.

I thought DKJr was our best true freshmen last year. The biggest surprise for me was how well the two freshmen OL (Jones and Hall) played in some crucial SEC minutes, especially against UGA. I was disappointed with Kmac but that was my own fault for having unrealistic expectations, given his one-year playing hiatus. I think he'll dominate this year, as expected. I'm concerned about Tuttle returning to form since he's been off his leg so long and DTs can easily put on bad weight when they're not active (Kmac's sr year in high school is a good example). Tuttle should probably be redshirted if he is not in playing shape by September. If Alexis Johnson is not playing this year then we may have to play Tuttle even if his conditioning is poor. He may not stay four years, much less five, anyway. Back to Johnson, assuming the staff intends to keep him, I think he should be redshirted to allow the lawsuit to fade away and not provide ammo. His charges aren't dropped until October anyway.

Moving on, I also wasn't surprised that P. Williams was mostly ineffective, given that he couldn't cut due to his injury. He basically only ran go routes all season and that had very little value, if any at all, outside of the WCU game. I expect him to have a breakout soph season, however, based on spring play.

D4H, I've seen you post your thoughts on the 2016 class. I vaguely recall that you predict Byrd will have the biggest impact. I'd be curious to read your thoughts on the 2016 freshmen class for this upcoming season again in this thread.

My prediction:
1) Kongbo starts the second half of the season and plays his way into an early draft exit candidate.
2) Warrior is the freshmen class special teams stud but gets limited snaps in the secondary.
3) Guarantano redshirts as widely anticipated. Both Dormady and S. Jones get backup minutes in a season that provides ample garbage time. I just hope the coaches let them use the playbook in these mop up minutes (which I doubt they will, as they never have before).
4) Osborne is the freshmen stud on the defensive side of the ball and gets starts at nickel in the second half of the season.
5) Callaway and Byrd log important minutes at WR but neither have significant production as freshmen.
6) Jeff George has significant production at WR and becomes a possession-type receiver. Same could be said for Latrell Williams, who is forced into action early due to our limited true slot receiver options.
7) Desmond Henderson gets valuable reps in the second half of the season as a backup CB as the staff begins to anticipate losing J. Martin to the draft based on a stellar second season.
8) If one of our 3 OT signees gets minutes this year, it'll likely be Johnson. I suspect all three RS, however. This will result in an interesting logjam for next year since we are likely to sign at least 2 blue chip OTs in the 2017 class (Trey Smith plus several other top250 candidates). I bet (hope) we also sign Eze, who definitely needs a RS, so he won't logjam like a Trey Smith and/or Jedrick Wills might. Imagine us having 5 freshmen OTs and a sixth redshirting in 2017!
9) I hope we have the luxury of RS our two freshmen TEs and our RB (CFA). I actually think we could (should) see up to 10 redshirts in the 2016 class.
2017 and beyond for the 2016 class:
10) Longer term, Byrd moves back to the secondary (where he belongs) and the 2016 DB class plus the upcoming 2017 DB class turn UT's secondary into one of the best in the country and arguably one of the best secondaries in UT's modern football era year-in and year-out over the next 3-4 seasons. The strength of the 2016 class is without a doubt an incredible collection of DB talent, with Warrior, Osborne, and Byrd all possessing the talent and ability for All SEC-type production. Henderson may be surprisingly good as well. Buchanan has the bloodlines.
I anticipate that the 2017 DB class could be just as good, if not better. We are realistic contenders for three DBs who have 5 star potential (JaCoby Stevens, Deangelo Gibbs, Lamont Wade) and several more top250 players (Maleik Gray, Jamyest Williams).
All of this only enhances Shoop's status as a secondary specialist (ala Nick Saban), which remains untarnished the entirety of his stay at UT as DC. I don't believe he'll be here long, however (two-to-four years, tops), as a result of his (anticipated) success.
11) Guarantano does not start in 2017 as a RS FR. He will, however, be exceptional once his time comes in 2018 or beyond.
12) Bituli and CFA do not get much, if any, snaps as freshmen, but both go on to have fabulous careers.
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Great post.

I don't see many freshmen in the 2016 class starting.

- I think Tyler Byrd, Latrell Williams, and Marquez Callaway will play a lot at WR. Mostly as backups though a star might emerge.

- Kongbo should be in the rotation with Vereen opposite Barnett.

- I agree with you that Warrior will be a special teams star but won't get a lot of snaps on defense. Our secondary should be filthy next year and going forward.

The team looks great moving forward. Guarantano will redshirt but should be a monster by 2018.
 
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#181
#181
junder13 said:
Sixth, good find on SJT predicting Richmond would redshirt. I would like to hear SJT's predictions for the 2016 freshmen class as well.

Lastly, I don't intend this thread bump to be a pissing contest. I would like to see some thoughts on the 2016 freshmen class's contribution this season, yours included. I shared my predictions. Feel free to share yours. :hi:
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In that spirit....

I think it will be on where need arises. IMO, there will be no need for a Fr to start on this team barring injury.... but the greatest opportunity right now appears to be WR and particularly the slot. I think you have to like Byrd's chances of carving out some quality PT if the put him there. IMO, he's the only Fr that didn't participate in the Spring with a solid chance of playing on O or D.

Some of them will likely get time on ST's.

Another "swag".... Osborne could be someone who gets some time in the rotation.
 
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#183
#183
USCGVOL said:
What will freshmen break into the starting lineup this year? I would think only 1 at best this year if any.
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None would be a better guess.

We have solid starters at every position. Only Kongbo could theoretically start if he beats out Vereen. Preston, Malone, and Smith look locked in as starters at WR. However, Latrell Williams, Byrd, and Callaway could get significant playing time.

Here's who I see getting playing time:

1. Jonathan Kongbo - starting/backup DE
2. Latrell Williams - backup slot receiver
3. Tyler Byrd - backup receiver/special team star
4. Marquez Callaway - backup outside receiver
5. Jeff George - backup outside receiver
6. Nigel Warrior - special team star/backup safety
7. Marquill Osborne - backup nickel/special teams
8. DJ Henderson - backup corner
9. Alexis Johnson - backup DT (if he's back)

I see everyone else in the 2016 class redshirting.
 
#187
#187
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
None would be a better guess.

We have solid starters at every position. Only Kongbo could theoretically start if he beats out Vereen. Preston, Malone, and Smith look locked in as starters at WR. However, Latrell Williams, Byrd, and Callaway could get significant playing time.

Here's who I see getting playing time:

1. Jonathan Kongbo - starting/backup DE
2. Latrell Williams - backup slot receiver
3. Tyler Byrd - backup receiver/special team star
4. Marquez Callaway - backup outside receiver
5. Jeff George - backup outside receiver
6. Nigel Warrior - special team star/backup safety
7. Marquill Osborne - backup nickel/special teams
8. DJ Henderson - backup corner
9. Alexis Johnson - backup DT (if he's back)

I see everyone else in the 2016 class redshirting.
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Osborne could be the Starting Nickel before the season is over, he got a lot of praise out of Spring camp.
 
#188
#188
Richmond redshirted.
McKenzie didn't start a single game.
Tuttle didn't start a single game.

Kirkland became the starter, but did not begin as the starter.


Not very accurate at all actually.
 
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#189
#189
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
None would be a better guess.

We have solid starters at every position. Only Kongbo could theoretically start if he beats out Vereen. Preston, Malone, and Smith look locked in as starters at WR. However, Latrell Williams, Byrd, and Callaway could get significant playing time.

Here's who I see getting playing time:

1. Jonathan Kongbo - starting/backup DE
2. Latrell Williams - backup slot receiver
3. Tyler Byrd - backup receiver/special team star
4. Marquez Callaway - backup outside receiver
5. Jeff George - backup outside receiver
6. Nigel Warrior - special team star/backup safety
7. Marquill Osborne - backup nickel/special teams
8. DJ Henderson - backup corner
9. Alexis Johnson - backup DT (if he's back)

I see everyone else in the 2016 class redshirting.
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3, 4, 5 i think will all see the field. how much of an impact, is up to them.

6, 7 special teams

1, 9 juco transfers, and both will see the field plenty, (if AJ is able to participate)
 
#190
#190
junder13 said:
Your perspective is too literal.
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I take people at their word, and assume that they say what they mean. And mean what they say.

On a forum like this where words are (literally) the only tools we have, anything less than taking each other at our word leads to some vague, nebulous interaction where no one is actually saying anything coherent.

break/break

Barring significant injury between now and 1 Sep, not a single true freshman will start that evening. Some will get time on special teams, though; look for a few of our young, new athletes to make names for themselves that way.

As the year goes along, we might see a few break into the two deep, and one or two might even get some starts over the course of the season. Based on this thread from a year ago, I think it will be largely unpredictable who those one or two are (find the guy who predicted Chance Hall would get the second-most starts of any freshman in 2015).

It really all comes down to what upperclassmen get injured, potentially giving a freshman an early chance to prove himself.
 
#191
#191
JUCO's are wild cards. I find them harder to predict than Fr most of the time.
 
#193
#193
sjt18 said:
In that spirit....

I think it will be on where need arises. IMO, there will be no need for a Fr to start on this team barring injury.... but the greatest opportunity right now appears to be WR and particularly the slot. I think you have to like Byrd's chances of carving out some quality PT if the put him there. IMO, he's the only Fr that didn't participate in the Spring with a solid chance of playing on O or D.

Some of them will likely get time on ST's.

Another "swag".... Osborne could be someone who gets some time in the rotation.
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exactly. if any FR see the field w/any significant playing time, much less "starting", it will be because of a) injury or b) they're that damn good.

but for the first time in a bit....we don't have to rely on more than our fair share of 18 year olds to carry the season.
 
#195
#195
Jones has said he would like to see the health of the roster at a point where most Fr red shirt. He's there IMO.

My guesses:

Jonathan Kongbo DE/DT- IMO will carve out a role but won't start. Vereen and Barnett are too good.
Lattrell Willams WR- RS
Tyler Byrd DB/WR- contributor, possible starter at SB
Marquez Callaway Ath- RS if possible.
Marcus Tatum OL- RS
Nathan Niehaus OL- RS
Baylen Buchanan DB- RS or ST's
Desmond Henderson DB- ST's mostly
Brandon Johnson WR- RS
Ja'Quain Blakely LB- RS
Carlin Fils-aime RB- RS barring injury
Daniel Bituli LB- RS
Alexis Johnson DT- ST's and back up contributor
Austin Pope TE- RS
Jeff George WR- specialty receiver
Jarrett Guarantano QB- RS
Devante Brooks TE- RS
Marquill Osborne DB- In the rotation but not a starter
Ryan Johnson OL- RS
Nigel Warrior S- RS or ST's. I think a likely RS.
 
#196
#196
sjt18 said:
Jones has said he would like to see the health of the roster at a point where most Fr red shirt. He's there IMO.

My guesses:

Jonathan Kongbo DE/DT- IMO will carve out a role but won't start. Vereen and Barnett are too good.
Lattrell Willams WR- RS
Tyler Byrd DB/WR- contributor, possible starter at SB
Marquez Callaway Ath- RS if possible.
Marcus Tatum OL- RS
Nathan Niehaus OL- RS
Baylen Buchanan DB- RS or ST's
Desmond Henderson DB- ST's mostly
Brandon Johnson WR- RS
Ja'Quain Blakely LB- RS
Carlin Fils-aime RB- RS barring injury
Daniel Bituli LB- RS
Alexis Johnson DT- ST's and back up contributor
Austin Pope TE- RS
Jeff George WR- specialty receiver
Jarrett Guarantano QB- RS
Devante Brooks TE- RS
Marquill Osborne DB- In the rotation but not a starter
Ryan Johnson OL- RS
Nigel Warrior S- RS or ST's. I think a likely RS.
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i pretty much agree with all of this. the only one i would wonder about is Warrior. and that's only b/c we haven't seen/heard anything yet on him in a camp. i think if he'd of been an early enrollee, maybe the chances of him making the active goes up.

coming in for fall camp...may be too much to ask for him to play catch up. but, with the way we do special teams, who knows........

Callaway...i like how you said "iff possible". kid's supposed to be instant offense, and if he can help spread defenses out immediately, gonna be hard not get him on the field this year.

you know as you think about a couple of these guys...like callaway or byrd or warrior...makes me think about year 1 and 2 under CBJ....he purposely held Dobbs with a RS because of the master plan....long term. he wasn't in a "win now" predicament...

he is now, so i wonder how, if at all, it affects some personnel decisions? can't wait to start hearing how some of these guys do in camp.
 
#197
#197
Here's how big a difference 2016 is compared to 2015 and 2014 when talking about freshmen:

Every previous year in Butch's tenure, by the end of April I already had all the freshmen typed into my home-maintained team roster, viewed highlight film on many of them, and was anticipating where they might fit in the two-deep. You knew they were going to be a big part of the team; you could just feel it, because of the thin spots in the squad.

This year, I haven't bothered with any of that. Paid attention to their recruitment, of course, and even saw some film on some of them, but I feel zero compulsion to think about how they can help out in the two-deep. Because the two-deep is already full. Of really talented guys.

These fellows will get their turn. Some maybe even this year. But we no longer depend on incoming freshmen to be difference-makers.

That's a very good thing.
 
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#198
#198
VFL-82-JP said:
Here's how big a difference 2016 is compared to 2015 and 2014 when talking about freshmen:

Every previous year in Butch's tenure, by the end of April I already had all the freshmen typed into my home-maintained team roster, viewed highlight film on many of them, and was anticipating where they might fit in the two-deep. You knew they were going to be a big part of the team; you could just feel it, because of the thin spots in the squad.

This year, I haven't bothered with any of that. Paid attention to their recruitment, of course, and even saw some film on some of them, but I feel zero compulsion to think about how they can help out in the two-deep. Because the two-deep is already full. Of really talented guys.

These fellows will get their turn. Some maybe even this year. But we no longer depend on incoming freshmen to be difference-makers.

That's a very good thing.
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:thumbsup: agreed.
 
#199
#199
VFL-82-JP said:
Here's how big a difference 2016 is compared to 2015 and 2014 when talking about freshmen:

Every previous year in Butch's tenure, by the end of April I already had all the freshmen typed into my home-maintained team roster, viewed highlight film on many of them, and was anticipating where they might fit in the two-deep. You knew they were going to be a big part of the team; you could just feel it, because of the thin spots in the squad.

This year, I haven't bothered with any of that. Paid attention to their recruitment, of course, and even saw some film on some of them, but I feel zero compulsion to think about how they can help out in the two-deep. Because the two-deep is already full. Of really talented guys.

These fellows will get their turn. Some maybe even this year. But we no longer depend on incoming freshmen to be difference-makers.

That's a very good thing.
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I am so excited about this season I cant even stand it. I don't want to get my hopes up still. I do this to myself every year. It hasn't ended well lately.
 
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#200
#200
USCGVOL said:
I am so excited about this season I cant even stand it. I don't want to get my hopes up still. I do this to myself every year. It hasn't ended well lately.
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Me too, brother, me too. But Always Ready for another run. :good!:
 
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