Remember Attrition?

#101
#101
Well what he said isnt too far fetched.

A) the lawsuit could've been settled quietly last yr (I believe that)
B) the lawsuit is impacting our recruiting (I believe that)
C) Butch has aspirations to coach at the next level (this is very believable)

You say Butch has never publicly stated such so that makes it unbelievable? Don't you think it would go against his own self interest to say such things publicly? Public perception plays are large part in this business. If your coach publicly states that he wants to coach in the NFL then you could be looking at some unrest within the fanbase and some added difficulty in recruiting, because that sure as heck is the type of cannon fodder other coaches use in a recruiting battle. When it comes to the media some things are best left unsaid.
 
#102
#102
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Larry knows what he's talking about folks. I realize some of yall are new here but if the man says it then you can bet it's pretty close to the truth. He's not a rumor mill.
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I'm plenty familiar with Larry. He's an intelligent and all around good poster. But unless he heard something from the horse's mouth, then it is just a rumor. A lot of his info comes from Volquest. I know he worked/works at the university in some capacity. That doesn't mean he associates with Jones.
 
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#103
#103
I agree with everything you said, Kirby.

I think the main reason this revelation (and to some it is a revelation, if believed) strikes some people so strongly is this: Butch doesn't seem like an NFL coach. In several ways, not:

-- He's a team builder, a motivator, and a developer. This is the crux of college coaching. Taking young, high-energy/low-focus young men, and molding them into a team, developing them from boys into men, providing external motivation in a way you don't see pro coaches do. In the pros, it's a business. It feels like a business. You take an in-your-face, high-energy approach like the one that seems an indelible part of Butch Jones, and it will most often not be received well by NFL players and teams. It's all just...colder, more calculated, more "professional" at that level.

-- He's a recruiter. This is perhaps one of his strongest suits. And one utterly wasted at the pro level.

-- His Xs and Os don't match the NFL's Xs and Os very well. This has been covered in this thread already; I won't belabor it.

-- He's an alpha male, at the level of American football where the coach is at the Alpha-malest. In the pros, the glory goes to the QB, then to the coach, then to the owner. In high school, the glory goes to the owner (the school), then to the players, then to the coach. But in college, glory goes to the coach, then to the players, then to the owner (university).

For all these reasons, and others that are even harder to put into words, he just seems to be the prototypical college coach. And he has seemed to me smart enough to know that this is where he fits best.

So I've personally always assumed he is now at his pinnacle, the job he wants for the rest of his life. A bit shocking to hear he might want to try something that many of us think will fit him much less well.
 
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#104
#104
VFL-82-JP said:
I agree with everything you said, Kirby.

I think the main reason this revelation (and to some it is a revelation, if believed) strikes some people so strongly is this: Butch doesn't seem like an NFL coach. In several ways, not:

-- He's a team builder, a motivator, and a developer. This is the crux of college coaching. Taking young, high-energy/low-focus young men, and molding them into a team, developing them from boys into men, providing external motivation in a way you don't see pro coaches do. In the pros, it's a business. It feels like a business. You take an in-your-face, high-energy approach like the one that seems an indelible part of Butch Jones, and it will most often not be received well by NFL players and teams. It's all just...colder, more calculated, more "professional" at that level.

-- He's a recruiter. This is perhaps one of his strongest suits. And one utterly wasted at the pro level.

-- His Xs and Os don't match the NFL's Xs and Os very well. This has been covered in this thread already; I won't belabor it.

-- He's an alpha male, at the level of American football where the coach is at the Alpha-malest. In the pros, the glory goes to the QB, then to the coach, then to the owner. In high school, the glory goes to the owner (the school), then to the players, then to the coach. But in college, glory goes to the coach, then to the players, then to the owner (university).

For all these reasons, and others that are even harder to put into words, he just seems to be the prototypical college coach. And he has seemed to me smart enough to know that this is where he fits best.

So I've personally always assumed he is now at his pinnacle, the job he wants for the rest of his life. A bit shocking to hear he might want to try something that many of us think will fit him much less well.
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Yeah, I agree with all of this... and most of all - who the hell would hire him? The coaches you see jump from college to the NFL are ones who have had great success (Steve Spurrier, Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban, Pete Carroll). Butch is not in their league - at least not yet. And 3 of those 4 coaches still failed anyway as most college coaches do who make the jump to the NFL - and unlike Butch they were actually running a pro style offense. He would be an atrocious hire.
 
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#105
#105
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Larry knows what he's talking about folks. I realize some of yall are new here but if the man says it then you can bet it's pretty close to the truth. He's not a rumor mill.
Click to expand...

Didn't he say that Shoop wasn't a get and Chizik was our choice? :huh:
 
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#106
#106
VFL-82-JP said:
I agree with everything you said, Kirby.

I think the main reason this revelation (and to some it is a revelation, if believed) strikes some people so strongly is this: Butch doesn't seem like an NFL coach. In several ways, not:

-- He's a team builder, a motivator, and a developer. This is the crux of college coaching. Taking young, high-energy/low-focus young men, and molding them into a team, developing them from boys into men, providing external motivation in a way you don't see pro coaches do. In the pros, it's a business. It feels like a business. You take an in-your-face, high-energy approach like the one that seems an indelible part of Butch Jones, and it will most often not be received well by NFL players and teams. It's all just...colder, more calculated, more "professional" at that level.

-- He's a recruiter. This is perhaps one of his strongest suits. And one utterly wasted at the pro level.

-- His Xs and Os don't match the NFL's Xs and Os very well. This has been covered in this thread already; I won't belabor it.

-- He's an alpha male, at the level of American football where the coach is at the Alpha-malest. In the pros, the glory goes to the QB, then to the coach, then to the owner. In high school, the glory goes to the owner (the school), then to the players, then to the coach. But in college, glory goes to the coach, then to the players, then to the owner (university).

For all these reasons, and others that are even harder to put into words, he just seems to be the prototypical college coach. And he has seemed to me smart enough to know that this is where he fits best.

So I've personally always assumed he is now at his pinnacle, the job he wants for the rest of his life. A bit shocking to hear he might want to try something that many of us think will fit him much less well.
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I agree with your assessment of CBJ as a coach. I too have not seen him as an NFL coach. Doesn't mean because we think that about him that he thinks that about himself.
 
#107
#107
butchna said:
Didn't he say that Shoop wasn't a get and Chizik was our choice? :huh:
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for 8 hours, that situation existed until Butch struck a deal with CBS and Hart that worked. To Butch's credit he didn't give up even with Chizik begging to come.

you can ask me. I won't deny saying something I said and I did post that the Shoop deal was dead and we were turning to Chizik.
 
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#108
#108
Kristy* said:
I'm plenty familiar with Larry. He's an intelligent and all around good poster. But unless he heard something from the horse's mouth, then it is just a rumor. A lot of his info comes from Volquest. I know he worked/works at the university in some capacity. That doesn't mean he associates with Jones.
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I can respect your view on that.

correction: Never worked for UT. Never attended UT. Been a donor (for 30 years), season ticket holder (for 40 years) and that has gotten me close to many people in the athletic department and various athletic programs at UT. Fortunate in that respect.

Jones comes to Nashville every year for a fund raiser that I help coordinate. But I'm not a confident of his, just someone he knows.
 
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#110
#110
LWSVOL said:
I agree with your assessment of CBJ as a coach. I too have not seen him as an NFL coach. Doesn't mean because we think that about him that he thinks that about himself.
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Yes, you're right. And other coaches have shown similar bad-idea compulsions to test the NFL waters. Spurrier comes strongly to mind as another coach obviously built for the college level.

I just always thought Butch was bright enough in his self-awareness to know that about himself, to know where he fits. Maybe not.
 
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#111
#111
85SugarVol said:
You can't really be this dim...
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Nice! I interpreted his comment (it's not a big secret") to mean that it was common knowledge that Butch Jones wants to coach in the NFL. There are a few ways to interpret "it's not a big secret", I suppose. I took that to mean that he was suggesting that it was a publicly acknowledged fact but it's not. LWSVol wants us to believe that he has the secret handshake with Butch Jones and is privy to his aspirations. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't but it doesn't make me "dim" if I am skeptical.
 
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#112
#112
BowlBrother85 said:
Nice! I interpreted his comment (it's not a big secret") to mean that it was common knowledge that Butch Jones wants to coach in the NFL. There are a few ways to interpret "it's not a big secret", I suppose. I took that to mean that it was a publicly acknowledged fact and it's not. LWSVol wants us to believe that he has the secret handshake with Butch Jones and is privy to his aspirations. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't but it doesn't make me "dim" if I am skeptical.
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Why would any sitting college head coach come out on the record on that...
 
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#115
#115
85SugarVol said:
It may very well not be a big secret within the AD and Booster ranks.

You really can't see that?
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I am skeptical that he would tell a booster who was not also a very close friend of his. It is not the sort of rumor you want on the internet (such as this numbing thread). He might tell people working in the AD.
 
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#116
#116
LWSVOL said:
for 8 hours, that situation existed until Butch struck a deal with CBS and Hart that worked. To Butch's credit he didn't give up even with Chizik begging to come.

you can ask me. I won't deny saying something I said and I did post that the Shoop deal was dead and we were turning to Chizik.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...what kind of deal did Butch strike that would get Shoop, when it was a dead end 8 hours earlier??? Did he promise him the HC job, if we are as successful as we all hope this year, and Butch tries to bolt for the NFL?
 
#117
#117
OGbabyaviVol said:
Hmmm...what kind of deal did Butch strike that would get Shoop, when it was a dead end 8 hours earlier??? Did he promise him the HC job, if we are as successful as we all hope this year, and Butch tries to bolt for the NFL?
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I bet it had something to do with Shoop's almost nonexistent buyout (in case he wants to bolt for a HC job) or maybe even promising a certain level of autonomy as a DC.
 
#118
#118
No one has answered the question if Butch is still happy here at UT? That is pretty important in my view- sometimes more so than pay increases offered by other schools, other career opportunities, etc. if he's happy in Knoxville and his family is happy that's pretty key to him staying here longer term.
 
#119
#119
BowlBrother85 said:
I am skeptical that he would tell a booster who was not also a very close friend of his. It is not the sort of rumor you want on the internet (such as this numbing thread). He might tell people working in the AD.
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Why would he tell a booster? No one is intimating he did.

Do you honestly believe boosters don't have access to those within the AD?

You can't be this naive...
 
#123
#123
85SugarVol said:
And?
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And... I don't believe that he has personal knowledge of the professional aspirations of Butch Jones. You are free to believe whatever you want, of course. I've just seen too many (ahem, insiders) talk out of their butts on here.

...fwiw, I don't believe that Gene Chizik was ever going to be our DC either but again, that's just my opinion. Believe what you want. :hi:
 
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#124
#124
BowlBrother85 said:
And... I don't believe that he has personal knowledge of the professional aspirations of Butch Jones. You are free to believe whatever you want, of course. I've just seen too many (ahem, insiders) talk out of their butts on here.

...fwiw, I don't believe that Gene Chizik was ever going to be our DC either but again, that's just my opinion. Believe what you want. :hi:
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This has nothing to do with LWS. If you can't see how something could be "known", without it being on record, then I don't know what else to say.

Good luck...
 
#125
#125
85SugarVol said:
This has nothing to do with LWS. If you can't see how something could be "known", without it being on record, then I don't know what else to say.

Good luck...
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I do understand that but it does have to do with LWSVol because I was responding to his "it's not a big secret" remark. I took that to mean that he was saying it was on the record. I asked him to provide a link and he said he doesn't do links. I searched for it and couldn't find anything about Butch expressing an interest in the NFL... That's where it ends. :peace2:
 
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