The real problem with the pass game is PLAYCALLING

[jakez4ut]

Our offense is built on misdirection. We've seen it grind to a halt when the D knows what to expect. Last drive of the Bama game, they knew we didn't have enough time to run so they ignored the threat of the QB run and blitzed. Last drive against OU (regulation), UGA, and UF (before they scored) they knew we cared more about the clock running than the 1st down. They loaded the box and we didn't even attempt a pass.

One of the funny times where Butch's abandon of misdirection and conservative play calling worked out was the last TD against UF. 3rd and long where a TD and 2 gives you a 2 possession lead. UF knows we need to go for it and calls a pass D. Little did they know Butch was playing for the field goal and called a run up the middle. Hurd went beast mode and scored instead of getting a few yards like Butch thought.

the same thing happened at the end of the half against Bama. we were perfectly happy to head in to half time the way things were....Bama thought we had enough time to try something, and played D accordingly, CBJ ran Hurd and he got that 39 yard scamper that all the sudden perked up the offensive coaches...hilarious.

like said earlier, these stats have no context. we were a run first offense that wasn't going to take chances when we didn't have to. the goal was to control the clock, set the pace and protect against turnovers.

and it, in part, was/is due to the fact that our overall passing game just isn't/wasn't that effective, or efficient.

i do expect that to change this year.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Our offense is built on misdirection. We've seen it grind to a halt when the D knows what to expect. Last drive of the Bama game, they knew we didn't have enough time to run so they ignored the threat of the QB run and blitzed. Last drive against OU (regulation), UGA, and UF (before they scored) they knew we cared more about the clock running than the 1st down. They loaded the box and we didn't even attempt a pass.

One of the funny times where Butch's abandon of misdirection and conservative play calling worked out was the last TD against UF. 3rd and long where a TD and 2 gives you a 2 possession lead. UF knows we need to go for it and calls a pass D. Little did they know Butch was playing for the field goal and called a run up the middle. Hurd went beast mode and scored instead of getting a few yards like Butch thought.

Cosign.

Butch Jones was badly outcoached last year in those games.

Hopefully he's learned his lesson.

 

[Top Gun]

These 3rd down stats show Dobbs is no average passer. He's an extremely talented passer who has the potential to be a lot more productive if the coaches let him.

You can quote stats all you want, Dobbs is very talented and is the reason we are poised to win big, but he has got to improve his accuracy to be a great QB. Too many passes off target means exactly that. Even on simple routes the WRs have to make adjustments to catch the ball.

 

[utvolpj]

Cosign.

Butch Jones was badly outcoached last year in those games.

Hopefully he's learned his lesson.

He was outcoached vs UGA?

The rest of that post you cosigbed was pure crap that he's repeated for months on here to everyone's laughter

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Actually, according to cfbstats.com it was 5.04; fourth in the conference and .02 ahead of Mississippi. (With a little less predictability it COULD have been 6, though.) And since D4H did the Deshaun Watson comparison: that put us 43rd in the country compared to 18th for Clemson who averaged 5.61 on first.

Yup. If we change our first down tendencies from 73-27 run to pass to 55-45 run to pass, that yards per carry average could jump from 5 ypc on 1st down to 6 ypc.

Right now everyone knows what we're going to do and we're still a really good team. If we improve our coaching and become a little more unpredictable, we can be DOMINANT.

 

[utvolpj]

Yup. If we change our first down tendencies from 73-27 run to pass to 55-45 run to pass, that yards per carry average could jump from 5 ypc on 1st down to 6 ypc.

Or it could drop along with our yards gained on first because of incompletions. Why change what already works?

Our running game will be better this year so you better prepare yourself for disappointment

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

He was outcoached vs UGA?

The rest of that post you cosigbed was pure crap that he's repeated for months on here to everyone's laughter

Maybe not UGA but he was definitely outcoached against Oklahoma and Florida.

Butch has squandered more games due to mistakes than he's win through shrewd coaching.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yup. If we change our first down tendencies from 73-27 run to pass to 55-45 run to pass, that yards per carry average could jump from 5 ypc on 1st down to 6 ypc.

Right now everyone knows what we're going to do and we're still a really good team. If we improve our coaching and become a little more unpredictable, we can be DOMINANT.

you know, it's possible, and let's be honest, highly likely that both things are true:
1. the coaching in the FL, OU games was not great, and same mistakes can't be repeated if 120 is going to be different than 119.
2. Dobbs needs to improve his timing and accuracy to help improve the passing game so 120 can be better than 119.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Or it could drop along with our yards gained on first because of incompletions. Why change what already works?

Our running game will be better this year so you better prepare yourself for disappointment

Why on earth would I be disappointed by that?

I expect us to run for at least 3500 yards next season. Hopefully we can also throw for 3500 as well and be one of the most explosive offenses in the country.

 

[utvolpj]

Why on earth would I be disappointed by that?

I expect us to run for at least 3500 yards next season. Hopefully we can also throw for 3500 as well and be one of the most explosive offenses in the country.

Because you're begging for the coaches to change the game plan to a crap shoot that relies on an average passer. It's completely ridiculous

 

[BeecherVol]

Did we actually field WRs last year?

I agree the pass game was not great against the elite teams. But I think that was mainly because our receivers couldn't separate and our o-line couldn't pass protect against great defenses like Florida, Oklahoma, and Alabama.

Defenses like South Carolina and Kentucky are more on the level of guys like Von Pearson and Kyler Kerbyson. Two guys who couldn't even get training camp invites from an NFL club.

Im not sure what that has to do with the argument. Ive never stated that our WRs are playing at an elite level with terrible QB play. I actually agree that the playing calling can be better to help the passing game. I also agree that the WRs must improve. The difference is I see Dobbs needing to be more consistent as well as many others here throwing the ball.

Id like to see them stretch the field more but that doesn't mean throwing it more to me. Dobbs needs to stay around 25 passes and we need to lean on the 3 headed running monster.

 

[utvolpj]

Maybe not UGA but he was definitely outcoached against Oklahoma and Florida.

Butch has squandered more games due to mistakes than he's win through shrewd coaching.

The team was in position to win both OU and UF games. They were 2 teams that are on the same level as UT. Your hyperbole is noted

 

[ItsAllVols]

The state of the program and the defense you have to rely on was the issue, if we start airing it out we have to have a defense that can bow up and stop the offense from scoring if we put them in a bad position. We didn't have this last year, so we had to pick our spots and run the ball.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

1. This is a team sport. It's almost never as simple as pointing the finger at one person and blaming them. So no throwing a coach under the bus (btw, you got the wrong guy; DeBord calls most offensive plays, not Jones). Could the coaches do better? You bet, none of us are perfect. Could the OLine? Sure. How about the receivers? Yep. Could Dobbs? Uh-huh. They all contribute to a passing game that is serviceable, but not elite. Could it improve this year? We all hope so.

But that's no reason to go banshee on one element of the team while attempting to clear another element of any blame. Team sports don't work that way.

2. Opportunity cost is a big factor. Every time you throw, you give up an opportunity to run. When your run game is as powerful as ours, that's a serious consideration. Time to stop thinking we know DeBord's job anywhere near as well as he knows it. I know, we football fans love to play couch-coach. But we're not. That includes you, my friend D4H.

3. Stats can mislead. Frequently last fall as I broke down the OK and FL games post-mortem, I noticed plays that went into the books as runs...but were clearly intended (called by the OC) as pass plays. So when you say 73%-27% split on 1st down, run-to-pass, did you go back and count what was intended? Or just go with the misleading record books?

Bottom line is, and will remain: team sport, team succeeds and fails as a family. That's how it is, and how it should be. We must resist throwing people under the bus; that's just bad sportsmanship.

 

[Volfan76]

The key stat to look at is pass attempts. The more times we pass, the higher Dobbs completion percentage gets versus his peers.

For example, we're 12th in pass attempts on 1st down and only 9th in competition % on first 1st down. On 2nd down we're 6th in pass attempts and 6th in completion %. And finally on 3rd down, we're 3rd in pass attempts and 4th in completion %.

The trend line is pretty clear. Dobbs gets more accurate the more passes he throws. I've always said Josh is a rhythm passer. Remember how bad he looked to start the Georgia game? Then by the 2nd half he found a rhythm and then went on to have one of the best games in the SEC last year.

Let Josh throw the ball more and he gets more accurate. That's what the numbers say.

Josh completes more 3rd down passes because he is only throwing for 3 to 4 yds because Hurd already ran the ball for 6 or 7 of those yards. First down passes are usually longer passes to catch the D off guard and Dobbs simply is not as accurate at that range.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

For all of the great situational stats found on cfbstats.com, one insight that it cannot provide is precisely the kind of routes that Josh completes with high percentage and those with which he struggles. As we can all attest, he throws straight down the hash marks with accuracy and velocity. Several of our biggest gains in the passing game last year were on precisely those types of routes to tight ends in the 18-22 yard range. Where Josh struggles typically is completing passes from the hash mark to the sideline, particularly on deeper routes and most especially on good old-fashioned “fly” patterns as we old-timers used to call them.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Josh completes more 3rd down passes because he is only throwing for 3 to 4 yds because Hurd already ran the ball for 6 or 7 of those yards. First down passes are usually longer passes to catch the D off guard and Dobbs simply is not as accurate at that range.

Dobbs was 5th in the nation (and 1st in the SEC by a wide margin) in first down completions on 3rd and 7-9.

So you're simply wrong about this.

 

[08Vol]

Did we actually field WRs last year?

I agree the pass game was not great against the elite teams. But I think that was mainly because our receivers couldn't separate and our o-line couldn't pass protect against great defenses like Florida, Oklahoma, and Alabama.

Defenses like South Carolina and Kentucky are more on the level of guys like Von Pearson and Kyler Kerbyson. Two guys who couldn't even get training camp invites from an NFL club.

Our WRs will be greatly improved this year.
1. Pig's distraction is gone. Everyone was planning on him being the #1 and plays were designed around that. His loss threw off the passing game.
2. Pearson's distraction is gone. No more "will he or won't he be available" taking up the off season. He had to play when he got back but the chemistry and off season endurance were clearly lacking.
3. North's distraction is gone. His medical issues were not his fault but they still affected the team. Dobbs knew what he was capable of and forced throws his way even when he was covered.
4. Jennings isn't waiting time as a QB. Kid was never going to be a QB at this level and wasted practice reps on it. He has the athletic ability to be a freak at WR or safety.
5. P. Will is healthy. Recovering from his ACL tear slowed down his progression. He was healthy by the season but missed so much conditioning and live drills.

These 5 changes will lead to some impressive passing #s this year. If Malone gives 100% effort every play and Smith stays healthy we'll see an almost unstoppable offense

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

For all of the great situational stats found on cfbstats.com, one insight that it cannot provide is precisely the kind of routes that Josh completes with high percentage and those with which he struggles. As we can all attest, he throws straight down the hash marks with accuracy and velocity. Several of our biggest gains in the passing game last year were on precisely those types of routes to tight ends in the 18-22 yard range. Where Josh struggles typically is completing passes from the hash mark to the sideline, particularly on deeper routes and most especially on good old-fashioned “fly” patterns as we old-timers used to call them.

I disagree because we don't throw enough of those types of passes to know whether Josh is any good at them. You take absence of evidence as evidence of absence. That because we don't throw many of those types of passes, that ergo Dobbs can't make them.

I simply disagree with that line of thinking.

I think the lack of deep balls last year was because our receivers couldn't separate and because our o-line couldn't pass protect long enough for deep pass routes to develop.

I expect that to improve this year with the emergence of Preston Williams and a more veteran offensive line.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

And I disagree with your dismissive attitude on this point. If you want to go back, watch every pass that Josh threw in the aforementioned areas, chart his success/failure percentage and then come back and attempt to refute my assertion, be my guest. I know what I saw over the course of watching every game last season and I believe strongly that a number of contributors to this thread would agree with my assertion.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Our WRs will be greatly improved this year.
1. Pig's distraction is gone. Everyone was planning on him being the #1 and plays were designed around that. His loss threw off the passing game.
2. Pearson's distraction is gone. No more "will he or won't he be available" taking up the off season. He had to play when he got back but the chemistry and off season endurance were clearly lacking.
3. North's distraction is gone. His medical issues were not his fault but they still affected the team. Dobbs knew what he was capable of and forced throws his way even when he was covered.
4. Jennings isn't waiting time as a QB. Kid was never going to be a QB at this level and wasted practice reps on it. He has the athletic ability to be a freak at WR or safety.
5. P. Will is healthy. Recovering from his ACL tear slowed down his progression. He was healthy by the season but missed so much conditioning and live drills.

These 5 changes will lead to some impressive passing #s this year. If Malone gives 100% effort every play and Smith stays healthy we'll see an almost unstoppable offense

Plus we've essentially added 7 new receivers!!!

JUCO transfer Jeff George, true freshmens Tyler Byrd, Latrell Williams, Marquez Callaway, Corey Henderson, Brandon Johnson, and redshirt freshmen Vincent Perry are all possible contributors who didn't play at all last year.

If a couple of those guys emerge and Preston is as great as we expect him to be, the pass game could be extremely improved next year.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I personally expect Latrell Williams, Vincent Perry, Tyler Byrd, and Marquez Callaway to make big impacts next year. They bring a level of speed and explosiveness we haven't seen at WR for quite some time.

 

[FLVOL_79]

The real problem is we don't have a bunch of Stretch Armstrongs running routes...

 

[TBrown]

It's a trap.gif

 

[JohnMcA60]

Dobbs is great - and you make good points, but he has accuracy issues as well. We need across the board improvement from all involved to take the big step this year.

I agree that Everyone needs to help improve the passing game.( Debord, Azzani, Dobbs, The WRs, TEs, Scott, etc.) I'm glad someone brought this to light because it's not all "josh Dobbs can't throw".