NFLDraftScout 2016 Mock Draft - Marquez North

#151
#151
There should be better rules in NCAA football.
1.If a player doesn't take money from an agent and does not get drafted then they should be eligible to go back to the school they came from or go free agent.
 
#152
#152
Power T-Rev said:
Ok, these moronic statements by D4H have got to stop. For a human being's organ systems to function properly, essential fat of 2-5% is needed. That means the bare minimum for survival (hormone production, vitamin absorption, and padding around your internal organs). Male professional athletes body fat ranges anywhere from 6-13%. That's what really bothers me about this D4H guy. He just makes unsubstantiated claims and expects not to be called out on his bulls**t
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Yes I can concur with this. Being a medical student now in my 30's and being a military medic prior to that, I can comfortably state that 3% body fat is not healthy....

Body composition: What are athletes made of? | NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

It is commonly suggested that 5 percent body fat for men and 12 percent for women are the minimum required for healthy endocrine and immune function. (The International Society for the Advancement of Kinanthropometry suggests a minimum of sum of 7 skinfolds of 30-60mm for men and 40-90 mm for women.)
 
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#153
#153
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
No. Barnett is the next Charles Johnson (DE of the Carolina Panthers). Solid player. Good pro. Will make a pro bowl or two. However, he won't be a game changer like Watt or Freeney at the next level.

Only game changing DE coming out in 2017 is Myles Garrett. He's a generational talent. He'll be in the pros what people thought Clowney would be.
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I'm working on my darts accuracy. One day I might get on your level with my evaluations.
 
#154
#154
butchna said:
Did you watch the video tho? :)
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I did. Impressive highlights. I should probably retract my "he runs like a bull in a china shop" comment, it's probably unfair to him.

That being said, a highlight film doesn't tell the whole story for sure as we all know. Awhile back we finished my son's basketball highlight film...he's an excellent 3 point shooter and that highlight film made him look like freakin Steph Curry....he ain't Steph Curry.

Similarly, while those YouTube highlights showcase Jalen's talent on some of his best plays, remember that 50% of his carries last year resulted in lost yardage to 3 yards gained. None of those highlights included all the times he was dropped by one guy in the flat or 5-6 yards beyond the los.

And let me be clear again about my opinion of Jalen. I love the kid and hope against hope he stays all 4 years. It's gonna be sad when he's gone. He's a big, talented kid with very good speed and movement for his size who runs with great ferocity. He's a stud. He's also excellent catching the ball out of the backfield and I hope we'll see him utilized more in that manner next year...he has some of his best, most impressive, most dynamic, productive plays in that role.

My ONLY critique of Jalen, which some have taken offense to (ahem....Darth...ahem)is that he's not as dynamic as I thought he would be in the open field, doesn't have the big play ability thst I thought he'd have. Some have said they think it's just just a speed issue and I agree in part. I just think it's also a lack of good running instincts. I've seen him in the open field a couple of times wind up wandering and almost voluntarily stepping out of bounds without any great reason to do so....rather than show good vision in the open field and get as many yards as I believe a good, instinctual runner like a Chubb or Cook, even a Fournette would have. I think those guys would've likely taken Jalen's 30-40 yard run and scored.

Again, all this is jmo, what I believe I see.....I think he's an outstanding runner who's held back from being great or elite by his lack of big play ability.
 
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#155
#155
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
True he doesn't have Bell's jump cuts. Nobody does. But they have similar running styles. Henry has no agility. Hurd has good agility. Bell has phenomenal agility.

Watch the Florida game again. Even Gary Danielson was gushing about how beautiful a runner Hurd is when he gets some open space.
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Didn't you guarantee North in the 4th?
 
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#156
#156
KBVol said:
My ONLY critique of Jalen, which some have taken offense to (ahem....Darth...ahem)is that he's not as dynamic as I thought he would be in the open field, doesn't have the big play ability thst I thought he'd have. Some have said they think it's just just a speed issue and I agree in part. I just think it's also a lack of good running instincts. I've seen him in the open field a couple of times wind up wandering and almost voluntarily stepping out of bounds without any great reason to do so....rather than show good vision in the open field and get as many yards as I believe a good, instinctual runner like a Chubb or Cook, even a Fournette would have. I think those guys would've likely taken Jalen's 30-40 yard run and scored.

Again, all this is jmo, what I believe I see.....I think he's an outstanding runner who's held back from being great or elite by his lack of big play ability.
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FWIW I've never taken offense at your opinion or critique, just the disingenuous way disregard any points made against your opinion while pretending to consider a topic from all sides. As is often the case around here with D4H, it's less about what was said than the manner it said in, ya dig?
 
#157
#157
KBVol said:
A projection I recently saw had Hurd as being the 9th best running back prospect for the 2017 draft. This year, the 9th RB was taken in round 5.
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In fairness, more teams may be inclined to take a RB earlier considering the talent coming out next year. In a normal year, he's likely a 3rd+ round guy. I see no way he goes first round.
 
#158
#158
KBVol said:
I did. Impressive highlights. I should probably retract my "he runs like a bull in a china shop" comment, it's probably unfair to him.

That being said, a highlight film doesn't tell the whole story for sure as we all know. Awhile back we finished my son's basketball highlight film...he's an excellent 3 point shooter and that highlight film made him look like freakin Steph Curry....he ain't Steph Curry.

Similarly, while those YouTube highlights showcase Jalen's talent on some of his best plays, remember that 50% of his carries last year resulted in lost yardage to 3 yards gained. None of those highlights included all the times he was dropped by one guy in the flat or 5-6 yards beyond the los.

And let me be clear again about my opinion of Jalen. I love the kid and hope against hope he stays all 4 years. It's gonna be sad when he's gone. He's a big, talented kid with very good speed and movement for his size who runs with great ferocity. He's a stud. He's also excellent catching the ball out of the backfield and I hope we'll see him utilized more in that manner next year...he has some of his best, most impressive, most dynamic, productive plays in that role.

My ONLY critique of Jalen, which some have taken offense to (ahem....Darth...ahem)is that he's not as dynamic as I thought he would be in the open field, doesn't have the big play ability thst I thought he'd have. Some have said they think it's just just a speed issue and I agree in part. I just think it's also a lack of good running instincts. I've seen him in the open field a couple of times wind up wandering and almost voluntarily stepping out of bounds without any great reason to do so....rather than show good vision in the open field and get as many yards as I believe a good, instinctual runner like a Chubb or Cook, even a Fournette would have. I think those guys would've likely taken Jalen's 30-40 yard run and scored.

Again, all this is jmo, what I believe I see.....I think he's an outstanding runner who's held back from being great or elite by his lack of big play ability.
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You didn't see his 2.7% body fat in those highlights? :question:
 
#159
#159
Darth_Shiveman said:
FWIW I've never taken offense at your opinion or critique, just the disingenuous way disregard any points made against your opinion while pretending to consider a topic from all sides. As is often the case around here with D4H, it's less about what was said than the manner it said in, ya dig?
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No, actually I don't "dig". We've both argued our points and you've been every bit as inflexible as I've been....actually, I'd say more since I've actually conceded points and said that you've made some good points and backed em up with data. Not sure how I could argue more fairly, yet you're pretty much calling me a liar. You've been incredulous that I didn't agree with your points....it's a message board Darth. I haven't exactly been Dobbs4Heisman during our debates, saying that I'm absolutely 100% correct and anybody who disagrees is a blithering idiot, but whatevs buddy.
 
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#162
#162
KBVol said:
Good point. We both agree that the "stand up-take one step-stop-take the ball-and try to go from zero to 60" running game we have Jalen running doesn't fit his skill set, so he certainly hasn't had a ton of opportunities in open space. It was also a crime that he had to endure the OL we put in front of him in 2014. Perhaps getting him in the offset I with a better head of stream shows a different Hurd and we see a guy with a little juke, maybe even some wiggle, something that, quite honestly, I don't think I've seen outside of a couple of screen pass run and catches.

That being said, Bell is beyond elite and light years beyond Hurd and any other RB I've ever seen at that size. Hurd has a "Im a big bruising RB, come get some of this" running mindset IMO....whereas Bell thinks he's Barry Sanders, and at times you almost think he's right.
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Do you remember what he looked like in college?

I'll just say this. I saw a replay on the big 10 network of the 2012 Outback Bowl between Georgia and Michigan State (yes I watch a lot of football) and Bell was a slow footed straight line runner. No cut back ability. No agility. No burst. If you compared Bell 2012 to Hurd 2016 (at the Outback Bowl), there would be no comparison.

I think Hurd is way more talented and will be as good as Bell is right now in the pros.
 
#163
#163
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Do you remember what he looked like in college?

I'll just say this. I saw a replay on the big 10 network of the 2012 Outback Bowl between Georgia and Michigan State (yes I watch a lot of football) and Bell was a slow footed straight line runner. No cut back ability. No agility. No burst.

There is a reason the kid went second round.
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I meant at his current size, 220-225. I saw Bell at Michigan State and couldn't understand why people were raving about him. And then he drops 20-25 lbs after his rookie year and I couldn't believe he was the same guy. He's special and unlike any other back in the league when he's healthy. And no, I don't agree for one split second that Jalen is more talented than Bell....that's crazy talk IMHO.
 
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#164
#164
KBVol said:
6'1 vs 6'3...2 inches.

Also, neither Bell nor anybody else walking the planet has a body fat % less than 3%. 6-8%? Ok. 2%+, no way.
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Hurd is listed at 6'4". And if you see him standing next to the offensive lineman it's easy to believe.

And here is Bell saying he's at 2.9% body fat with what looks like a legit medical report. Le’Veon Bell’s body fat is 2.9 percent | Steelers Wire


Once again you can believe what you want. But Hurd is listed at 6'4". And Bell posted a report saying he's at 2.9% body fat.
 
#165
#165
Power T-Rev said:
Ok, these moronic statements by D4H have got to stop. For a human being's organ systems to function properly, essential fat of 2-5% is needed. That means the bare minimum for survival (hormone production, vitamin absorption, and padding around your internal organs). Male professional athletes body fat ranges anywhere from 6-13%. That's what really bothers me about this D4H guy. He just makes unsubstantiated claims and expects not to be called out on his bulls**t
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Tell that to Le'Veon Bell. Le’Veon Bell’s body fat is 2.9 percent | Steelers Wire
 
#168
#168
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Hurd is listed at 6'4". And if you see him standing next to the offensive lineman it's easy to believe.

And here is Bell saying he's at 2.9% body fat with what looks like a legit medical report. Le’Veon Bell’s body fat is 2.9 percent | Steelers Wire


Once again you can believe what you want. But Hurd is listed at 6'4". And Bell posted a report saying he's at 2.9% body fat.
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And Marquez was said to be 6'4 for 3 years at UT until he went to the combine and measured at 6'2"....and Pearson was said to be 6'3, until he evidently wasn't and was listed at 6'0" even last year.

I know that Hurd is a big, tall athlete....so is Bell...what are we arguing about here? Bell, at 6'1 or 6'2", I've seen both, and 220-230, I've seen both, is quicker, more agile and much better in space than Hurd at 6'3 or 6'4 and 240. Again, what's the argument?

As far as 2.9% body fat, you can link 10 more articles and I ain't buying 2.9% body fat....not only is it highly unlikely and virtually impossible, it's also very unhealthy.
 
#169
#169
KBVol said:
And Marquez was said to be 6'4 for 3 years at UT until he went to the combine and measured at 6'2"....and Pearson was said to be 6'3, until he evidently wasn't and was listed at 6'0" even last year.

I know that Hurd is a big, tall athlete....so is Bell...what are we arguing about here? Bell, at 6'1 or 6'2", I've seen both, and 220-230, I've seen both, is quicker, more agile and much better in space than Hurd at 6'3 or 6'4 and 240. Again, what's the argument?

As far as 2.9% body fat, you can link 10 more articles and I ain't buying 2.9% body fat....not only is it highly unlikely and virtually impossible, it's also very unhealthy.
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They might be wearing lifters in their cleats
 
#170
#170
KBVol said:
And Marquez was said to be 6'4 for 3 years at UT until he went to the combine and measured at 6'2"....and Pearson was said to be 6'3, until he evidently wasn't and was listed at 6'0" even last year.

I know that Hurd is a big, tall athlete....so is Bell...what are we arguing about here? Bell, at 6'1 or 6'2", I've seen both, and 220-230, I've seen both, is quicker, more agile and much better in space than Hurd at 6'3 or 6'4 and 240. Again, what's the argument?

As far as 2.9% body fat, you can link 10 more articles and I ain't buying 2.9% body fat....not only is it highly unlikely and virtually impossible, it's also very unhealthy.
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Marquez never looked 6'4" out there. Hurd does. Just see him next to the o-line. He's eye to eye with them.
 
#171
#171
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Marquez never looked 6'4" out there. Hurd does. Just see him next to the o-line. He's eye to eye with them.
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Yeah he did. Never heard anybody ever question his supposed 6'4 height. It was a source of pride that we had a kid so big, so athletic at WR....why, that height and weight and those hands displayed as a freshman were gonna make him a sure fire 1st round pick one day....btw, I was right in there with everybody else, "he's a 6'4" stud out there"......and then off he goes to the combine and he magically comes back to Knoxville 6'2". I'm not saying that Hurd isn't huge, he may very well be every bit of 6'4". But I've heard him referred to as both 6'3 and 6'4 already and who's to say this time next year he's not drafted as the 6'2 240 lb running back out of Tennessee?
 
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#172
#172
KBVol said:
Yeah he did. Never heard anybody ever question his supposed 6'4 height. It was a source of pride that we had a kid so big, so athletic at WR....why, that height and weight and those hands displayed as a freshman were gonna make him a sure fire 1st round pick one day....btw, I was right in there with everybody else, "he's a 6'4" stud out there"......and then off he goes to the combine and he magically comes back to Knoxville 6'2". I'm not saying that Hurd isn't huge, he may very well be every bit of 6'4". But I've heard him referred to as both 6'3 and 6'4 already and who's to say this time next year he's not drafted as the 6'2 240 lb running back out of Tennessee?
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He is probably 6'3".5
 
#173
#173
KBVol said:
Yeah he did. Never heard anybody ever question his supposed 6'4 height. It was a source of pride that we had a kid so big, so athletic at WR....why, that height and weight and those hands displayed as a freshman were gonna make him a sure fire 1st round pick one day....btw, I was right in there with everybody else, "he's a 6'4" stud out there"......and then off he goes to the combine and he magically comes back to Knoxville 6'2". I'm not saying that Hurd isn't huge, he may very well be every bit of 6'4". But I've heard him referred to as both 6'3 and 6'4 already and who's to say this time next year he's not drafted as the 6'2 240 lb running back out of Tennessee?
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North is 6'2.5" for the record btw.
 
#174
#174
Biopsyman said:
He is probably 6'3".5
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I honestly believe he's 6'4....looks like it to me. I'm just saying plenty other players have been listed originally as being taller, sometimes considerably taller, then they evidently wind up being shorter. Sutton is another one....seen him listed anywhere from 6'1 down to 5'11.....will he be 5'10 at the combine?
 
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