Post Spring Practice Top 25

#76
#76
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
The hell? What do the last 30 years have to do with this season?

LOL. What is this supernatural power that's continues to cause the more talented Vols to keep losing to Florida?
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Just pure stupidity. If you wanna continue to stick your head in the sand with regards to the respective mindsets of the programs regarding this annual Tennessee loss to Florida, then go right ahead. Again, you're too young and inexperienced to get it. It's not "supernatural powers", it's not voodoo, it's not black magic. It's one programs' supreme confidence vs another programs' severe doubt.
 
#77
#77
KBVol said:
Just pure stupidity. If you wanna continue to stick your head in the sand with regards to the respective mindsets of the programs regarding this annual Tennessee loss to Florida, then go right ahead. Again, you're too young and inexperienced to get it. It's not "supernatural powers", it's not voodoo, it's not black magic. It's one programs' supreme confidence vs another programs' severe doubt.
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As I said in my last post, you really think that's the case with this years team?

You really think the same team whose leaders basically guaranteed during the spring game that they would make the national title game next season are doubting whether they can beat Florida?

If our players are talking national title and the head coach isn't telling them to stop, I doubt there is any doubt over a divisional game.
 
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#78
#78
It's certainly the mind set of the fans. Overall mindset of the players? Laughable. No doubt they feel the extra pressure though from the fan base. Hell, you got people on here saying they rather go 8-4 and beat Florida then 10-2/11-1 and lose to Florida.

I don't think they checker Neyland expecting to lose.

I don't think top recruits making up top 10 classes come to UT expecting to lose either.

I do remember hearing the collective sound of a bunch of people in Neyland pooping their pants despite the rumblings going through the crowd of " oh no, we're going to lose because the back up QB is in" WE ALWAYS LOSE.......................................

It would be funny if it was that movie where Charlie Sheen wore those bad ass glasses and Randy Quaid whined like a baby as he beat his drum. Kinda sad in real life though.
 
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#79
#79
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You really think that's the case with guys like Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Barnett, JRM, and Sutton? Hell we just had our incoming 5 star recruit guarantee victory over Florida this season?

I highly doubt 5 star kids like Kahlil or Preston who dominated the guys at Florida at camps and stuff would be scared or question whether they can beat Florida.

Maybe when we were fielding 5-7 teams our guys were intimidated by Florida. But I don't think that's the case with this years squad.
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You mean the guys who are 0-3, 0-2, 0-1, 0-2, 0-3 and 0-3 vs Florida.? I don't know what they think. I seriously doubt they've ever been "intimidated" or "scared" of Florida, but I'd damn well be willing to bet they question whether or not they can beat them. We know that none of them has ever made a critical play with the game on the line to beat Florida, right?

Look, you completely misunderstand what I'm saying, what many, many lifelong Vols fans and former players have said about this series and the collective mindsets of the programs, coaches and players who have been a part of it.

I assume all of the players, especially the leaders of our team went into last year saying things like "F the streak, this is the year it ends", "Florida ain't ish, we're gonna whip that arse this year", "this is our year, the year we start our own streak!"...... and I'd bet willing to bet, that when the game was over, after reflecting on how we had full control of the game until the last 2 Florida drives with all the 4th down conversions and the eventual game losing play, that they were scratching their heads saying "what the f just happened?" ..... just like so many damn good, supremely talented, supremely confident Tennessee players have said before them.
 
#80
#80
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
As I said in my last post, you really think that's the case with this years team?

You really think the same team whose leaders basically guaranteed during the spring game that they would make the national title game next season are doubting whether they can beat Florida?

If our players are talking national title and the head coach isn't telling them to stop, I doubt there is any doubt over a divisional game.
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Whole lotta team leaders, whole lotta Vol studs over the years, whole lotta coaches, whole lotta players in orange and white with a lot of swag and a lot of confidence over the past 30-40 years.....and a whole lotta Tennessee losses when some adversity showed up and those same team leaders, studs and Tennessee players and coaches shrunk from the moment and couldn't make the play, any play to keep Florida from winning the game.
 
#81
#81
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
As I said in my last post, you really think that's the case with this years team?

You really think the same team whose leaders basically guaranteed during the spring game that they would make the national title game next season are doubting whether they can beat Florida?

If our players are talking national title and the head coach isn't telling them to stop, I doubt there is any doubt over a divisional game.
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D4H, no offense to you, you seem like an educated young person. But Florida has had our number for more than just the past 11 years. I remember a guy named Peyton Manning couldn't even beat them with a hell of a team around him for four years. It's just one of those things. No curse or being scared, just one program has another's #.
 
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#82
#82
KBVol said:
Didn't say anything about "Bill Battle as a reason for losing"....pointed out that every Tennessee coach since Bill Battle (who was 2-1 vs the Gators) has had a losing record vs them. Majors was 1-5, Fulmer was 5-12, Kiffin 0-1, Dooley 0-3, and Butch is 0-3.

I suppose it's my "hang up", but it's also fact that of all the teams we play, Florida is the one that we lose to the most consistently, by far, no matter the circumstances, coaches, players, etc. So, the incredulity that many have at the idea/prediction that Florida will likely beat Tennessee again this year, despite the "circumstances" of this year's coming game is silly to me. I hope Tennessee wins, I'll pull like hell for them to win....but given the train wreck that this series has been for Tennessee for lo these last 40 years, I just don't expect them to win. Call it what you will.
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Negavol
 
#83
#83
KBVol said:
Who said anything about voodoo? It's also not witchcraft or black magic. A big part of it is that Florida has been a better football program. Not doubt about that.

However, anyone who discounts the mental aspect of this series is foolish IMO. There's a mindset at play here with each program with regards to this annual game.....Florida expects to win, pretty much knows it's gonna win, while Tennessee, at best, hopes to win. I've heard former players talk about it...Florida week is different than any other week in the football complex at Tennessee and we've seen the difference continually manifest itself over the past four decades when the two teams play.

As far as being pragmatic, I have no doubt that if Florida wins the next 19 in a row, making it 30 UT losses in a row, handing Tennessee is only loss every year, that plenty of posters on here continue to mock those of us in the "believe when I see it crowd", while continuing to write off the skepticism as "voodoo".
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KBVol said:
You mean the guys who are 0-3, 0-2, 0-1, 0-2, 0-3 and 0-3 vs Florida.? I don't know what they think. I seriously doubt they've ever been "intimidated" or "scared" of Florida, but I'd damn well be willing to bet they question whether or not they can beat them. We know that none of them has ever made a critical play with the game on the line to beat Florida, right?

Look, you completely misunderstand what I'm saying, what many, many lifelong Vols fans and former players have said about this series and the collective mindsets of the programs, coaches and players who have been a part of it.

I assume all of the players, especially the leaders of our team went into last year saying things like "F the streak, this is the year it ends", "Florida ain't ish, we're gonna whip that arse this year", "this is our year, the year we start our own streak!"...... and I'd bet willing to bet, that when the game was over, after reflecting on how we had full control of the game until the last 2 Florida drives with all the 4th down conversions and the eventual game losing play, that they were scratching their heads saying "what the f just happened?" ..... just like so many damn good, supremely talented, supremely confident Tennessee players have said before them.
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You really could/should have stopped at the bolded. Everything after is just your own superstitions, which you answered with the bolded.

By and large, UF has been more talented than UT when we've played. To lay the outcome of the game this year on the losses over the past 25 years--especially after having admitted UF was a better team most of those years--is NOT pragmatic. It is superstitious pessimism. It's understandable, to be sure. But it is superstitious pessimism, plain and simple, so stop doctoring it as rational 'pragmatism'.

One simple question... Your superstitions per the past 25 years aside, do you think UT has the better team this year? If not, then pragmatically form the opinion that we stand a better chance of losing than winning. If so, then I think pragmatism would feel that we stand a better chance of winning than not.

:hi:
 
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#84
#84
KBVol said:
Whole lotta team leaders, whole lotta Vol studs over the years, whole lotta coaches, whole lotta players in orange and white with a lot of swag and a lot of confidence over the past 30-40 years.....and a whole lotta Tennessee losses when some adversity showed up and those same team leaders, studs and Tennessee players and coaches shrunk from the moment and couldn't make the play, any play to keep Florida from winning the game.
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I'll ask again... superstitions aside exactly what impact do those players/coaches/leaders/storms/rain/fumbles have on this year's game? Exactly? No vagueness. Exactly what effects do those past events have on this year's game?

I'm seriously trying to understand. You've stated that those winning UF teams were by and large better teams than UT. You've dismissed voodoo and superstition as parts of your pragmatic logic. So, seriously, please help me understand.

Exactly what causative impact do those events/players/coaches/mindsets have on this game this year?
 
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#86
#86
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
D4H, no offense to you, you seem like an educated young person. But Florida has had our number for more than just the past 11 years. I remember a guy named Peyton Manning couldn't even beat them with a hell of a team around him for four years. It's just one of those things. No curse or being scared, just one program has another's #.
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OK... So I'll ask you as well, in a serious effort to understand this mindset.

Exactly what does that have to do with this year's game? Exactly what does what does "having our #" mean?

With entirely new staffs, schemes, players, etc... What causative effect do games/staffs/schemes/players, etc have on this year's game?
 
#87
#87
Orange_Crush said:
OK... So I'll ask you as well, in a serious effort to understand this mindset.

Exactly what does that have to do with this year's game? Exactly what does what does "having our #" mean?

With entirely new staffs, schemes, players, etc... What causative effect do games/staffs/schemes/players, etc have on this year's game?
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I am just simply stating an objective fact that, no matter what kind of team UT fields, Florida has always been a tough win for us. History proves my point. I'm not blaming mindsets, team psyche, scheme, staff, whatever. Just stating an objective fact. If you want to argue that we have had a hard time beating Florida then go ahead, you wont' have much leg to stand on. But until they actually go out there and PROVE they can beat them, we can't guarantee a win.
 
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#89
#89
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
I am just simply stating an objective fact that, no matter what kind of team UT fields, Florida has always been a tough win for us. History proves my point. I'm not blaming mindsets, team psyche, scheme, staff, whatever. Just stating an objective fact. If you want to argue that we have had a hard time beating Florida then go ahead, you wont' have much leg to stand on. But until they actually go out there and PROVE they can beat them, we can't guarantee a win.
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No. You framed it as though history has an effect on the game this year--i.e. UF 'having our #'. I'm asking you to define what that means (having our number), and how the past 25 years or so has a causative effect on this year's game. I seriously want to know. I'd seriously like to better understand the mindset if it's not voddo or superstition.

If it's not a superstitious rationality, then you should be able to offer a better logical case than back-peddling with "I was just simply stating..." comments.

If the past 25 years have an effect on this year's game, then please explain the causative chain that connects them. If not, then I can oly surmise this is a superstitious mentality.

Also... I've never guaranteed a win this year. I've only said that I can't find a causative connection between this game and players that have been out of school for 21 years or so.
 
#90
#90
Orange_Crush said:
No. You framed it as though history has an effect on the game this year--i.e. UF 'having our #'. I'm asking you to define what that means (having our number), and how the past 25 years or so has a causative effect on this year's game. I seriously want to know. I'd seriously like to better understand the mindset if it's not voddo or superstition.

If it's not a superstitious rationality, then you should be able to offer a better logical case than back-peddling with "I was just simply stating..." comments.

If the past 25 years have an effect on this year's game, then please explain the causative chain that connects them. If not, then I can oly surmise this is a superstitious mentality.

Also... I've never guaranteed a win this year. I've only said that I can't find a causative connection between this game and players that have been out of school for 21 years or so.
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Lighten up! Geez. I can't explain it, neither can anyone else. But it is just plain obvious that every year, no matter the team we field, Florida gives us a tough win, How am I back-tracking?? I was simply calling our D4H and others for guaranteeing a win before the clock hits zero. I never said it was a "causative effect." I never said the previous year had an effect on this years game. WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID was that history shows Florida is a tough win for us.

Edit: to make you happy, I can't explain what having our # means, but IMO I don't think it's superstition. It's just something that you can't really explain. I don't wear the same pair of socks every year or turn my hat inside out if that's what you are thinking superstition is.
 
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#91
#91
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
Lighten up! Geez. I can't explain it, neither can anyone else. But it is just plain obvious that every year, no matter the team we field, Florida gives us a tough win, How am I back-tracking?? I was simply calling our D4H and others for guaranteeing a win before the clock hits zero. I never said it was a "causative effect." I never said the previous year had an effect on this years game. WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID was that history shows Florida is a tough win for us.
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I'm light, my friend. I promise. I'm just trying to understand (admittedly primarily from KB) this attitude that one won't believe UT can beat UF until one sees it--even in a year when UT is obviously more talented. I'm seriously trying to understand the logic behind the lack of faith in this team, in this instance.

Thus, I'm looking for that logic.

I had a several-year history once where my car broke down quite a bit. I don't lay asleep at night sweating about whether my car will get me to work tomorrow. It's a completely different car than the ones that broke down when I was a poor 20-ish-something guy.

So, history isn't an indicator of future success with so many changes as are inherent in college football rosters, staffs, etc...

Generally speaking, the better team stands the best chance of winning in any given game. If this is not the case, and history has a causative effect, I'm asking for it. Otherwise, superstition aside, I think it's very (most) reasonable to have a lot of faith in UT's chances against UF this year.

PS: Guaranteeing a win is equally as illogical in my book.
 
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#92
#92
Orange_Crush said:
I'll ask again... superstitions aside exactly what impact do those players/coaches/leaders/storms/rain/fumbles have on this year's game? Exactly? No vagueness. Exactly what effects do those past events have on this year's game?

I'm seriously trying to understand. You've stated that those winning UF teams were by and large better teams than UT. You've dismissed voodoo and superstition as parts of your pragmatic logic. So, seriously, please help me understand.

Exactly what causative impact do those events/players/coaches/mindsets have on this game this year?
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I think there is middle ground between your and KB's positions. It is a fact the guys who are better at forecasting games than anybody, handicappers in Vegas, use the historical stats in both college and pro football, of historical perfomance. Example, last year handicappers in the know put a stat out there for the AFC championship game the Patriots and Brady in particular had a losing record against the Broncos at Denver late in the season. Made no difference the personnel Denver had or did not have on the field that day and the heavily favored Patriots succumbed to the historical record. MUCH money changed hands that day. So, KB has a point, but methinks he overplays it regarding Florida and this particular group of Vols. Ordinarily, I'd say we should romp the gators at Neyland this season but I suspect it will be closer due to the simple historical record and how it has played out. I see this group of Vols determined to have their way with things this year no matter what and THAT teeth clenched I don't give a dxxn what the stats say determination is what turns things around in sports regarding historical streaks.
 
#93
#93
Orange_Crush said:
I'm light, my friend. I promise. I'm just trying to understand (admittedly primarily from KB) this attitude that one won't believe UT can beat UF until one sees it--even in a year when UT is obviously more talented. I'm seriously trying to understand the logic behind the lack of faith in this team, in this instance.

Thus, I'm looking for that logic.

I had a several-year history once where my car broke down quite a bit. I don't lay asleep at night sweating about whether my car will get me to work tomorrow. It's a completely different car than the ones that broke down when I was a poor 20-ish-something guy.

So, history isn't an indicator of future success with so many changes as are inherent in college football rosters, staffs, etc...

Generally speaking, the better team stands the best chance of winning in any given game. If this is not the case, and history has a causative effect, I'm asking for it. Otherwise, superstition aside, I think it's very (most) reasonable to have a lot of faith in UT's chances against UF this year.

PS: Guaranteeing a win is equally as illogical in my book.
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For the most part I agree with you. We have arguably one of the top 3 most talented teams in the SEC this year, most talented in the East. We arguably had a more talented team than them last year, but the result ended in a loss. I truly believe we WILL beat Florida this year, especially since the game is at Neyland. Our players/coaches more than likely aren't thinking about history when they take the field against the gators later this year, but for damn sure the gators are, which gives them confidence to win, less-talented or not.
 
#94
#94
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
For the most part I agree with you. We have arguably one of the top 3 most talented teams in the SEC this year, most talented in the East. We arguably had a more talented team than them last year, but the result ended in a loss. I truly believe we WILL beat Florida this year, especially since the game is at Neyland. Our players/coaches more than likely aren't thinking about history when they take the field against the gators later this year, but for damn sure the gators are, which gives them confidence to win, less-talented or not.
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Seeing the swagger on the UT squad this year, I seriously doubt they walk into that game scared of UF. i.e. I don't think UF will be the only ones with confidence.

:hi:

(And I disagree with your assessment that UT was a better team last year than UF. The UF team we played was not the team that collapsed down the strech. It was the team that won them the SECE, even with the team roster losses and collapse. UT was talented but thin. That showed with a late-game collapse.)
 
#95
#95
Orange_Crush said:
Seeing the swagger on the UT squad this year, I seriously doubt they walk into that game scared of UF. i.e. I don't think UF will be the only ones with confidence.

:hi:

(And I disagree with your assessment that UT was a better team last year than UF. The UF team we played was not the team that collapsed down the strech. It was the team that won them the SECE, even with the team roster losses and collapse. UT was talented but thin. That showed with a late-game collapse.)
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Agreed that this team has the "swagger" which they didn't seem to have last year. And yes I believe they have all the confidence in the world to beat EVERYONE on their schedule. I guess we will just have to continue to disagree about last years talent vs. florida. No worries, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I respect yours. :good!:
 
#98
#98
KBVol said:
You mean the guys who are 0-3, 0-2, 0-1, 0-2, 0-3 and 0-3 vs Florida.? I don't know what they think. I seriously doubt they've ever been "intimidated" or "scared" of Florida, but I'd damn well be willing to bet they question whether or not they can beat them. We know that none of them has ever made a critical play with the game on the line to beat Florida, right?

Look, you completely misunderstand what I'm saying, what many, many lifelong Vols fans and former players have said about this series and the collective mindsets of the programs, coaches and players who have been a part of it.

I assume all of the players, especially the leaders of our team went into last year saying things like "F the streak, this is the year it ends", "Florida ain't ish, we're gonna whip that arse this year", "this is our year, the year we start our own streak!"...... and I'd bet willing to bet, that when the game was over, after reflecting on how we had full control of the game until the last 2 Florida drives with all the 4th down conversions and the eventual game losing play, that they were scratching their heads saying "what the f just happened?" ..... just like so many damn good, supremely talented, supremely confident Tennessee players have said before them.
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What do you think they thought after Oklahoma?

This is probably the dumbest post I've ever read.
 
#99
#99
VOL 4 Life 83 said:
D4H, no offense to you, you seem like an educated young person. But Florida has had our number for more than just the past 11 years. I remember a guy named Peyton Manning couldn't even beat them with a hell of a team around him for four years. It's just one of those things. No curse or being scared, just one program has another's #.
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So you believe there is some voodoo magic involved here as well?

Why is it hard for some of you to admit Florida has simply had a better program?

If we lose to Alabama for another 10 years do they also have a magical spell over us?

This football dawg. If you lose to an opponent consistently, they're simply better than you. It ain't magic.
 
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