To Protect and to Serve II

#1,476
#1,476
Grand Vol said:
Well, you were the one that decided to voice your opinion on how you wanted to conceal your goods, illegal or not. Which makes it a 4th Amendment issue about being secure in your property as those are all the same words used in the 4th Amendment.

I'm not avoiding the issue of tinting windows, just merely pointing out the fallacy of your argument in that you believe it's a 9th Amendment issue when in reality it's a 4th Amendment issue of the reasonable expectation of privacy. If you want to talk about drugs, just say "I want to discuss the legality of drugs" and be done with it. Stop trying to make an argument nobody has advanced.
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In reality, it hits at the right to privacy and the 9th Amendment. You are choosing to go that way. I'm trying to lead you to the easy peasy 9th Amendment argument.
 
#1,478
#1,478
MercyPercy said:
The problem is that many of these rules and regulations do not promote peacefully living with eachother. They do the opposite. Our drug laws have facilitated the violent underground drug trade. When we make gambling illegal in some places, people resort to participating in shady games with bad dudes who might bust your kneecaps. When we make prostitution illegal, there's no rules or regulations protecting the prostitutes from being hurt and taken advantage of by scummy pimps. There's no health checks. Getting fined for a rolling stop at 2 AM isn't saving any lives and only promotes distrust with law enforcement.
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That's not why people end up with busted knee caps when gambling.... its bc they gamble without having the money to pay up which will still happen whether gambling is legal or illegal....so you don't want laws making prostitution illegal but want laws that protect a hookers health.... Makes no sense to me.... As to the rolling stop at 2 AM.... Ask the family from Tennessee that was killed a few months ago by a guy doing a rolling stop.... Traffic laws are meant to save lives.... It is why you have to take a test to get a license.
 
#1,480
#1,480
volbeast33 said:
i believe that there is a possible situation where a government wouldn't develop over time. I do believe we need rules and regulations to live peacefully with each other.
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Explain to me how me having dark tinted windows on my car, me smoking reefer or me having a poker party at my home will violate your peaceful way of life?
 
#1,481
#1,481
volbeast33 said:
That's not why people end up with busted knee caps when gambling.... its bc they gamble without having the money to pay up which will still happen whether gambling is legal or illegal....so you don't want laws making prostitution illegal but want laws that protect a hookers health.... Makes no sense to me.... As to the rolling stop at 2 AM.... Ask the family from Tennessee that was killed a few months ago by a guy doing a rolling stop.... Traffic laws are meant to save lives.... It is why you have to take a test to get a license.
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Busted knee caps while gambling: there is a law already on the books for that crime (assault and battery)

Hooker health: If you let the free market run things, no brothel or prostitute would stay in business if they were unhealthy. They would proud post their recent health check scores on the door the same way restaurants do.

Rolling stop at 2:00 am: Charge to guy only after a crash has occurred. Writing a ticket at 2:00 am when nothing has occurred would be writing a ticket for a pre-crime.
 
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#1,484
#1,484
volbeast33 said:
That's not why people end up with busted knee caps when gambling.... its bc they gamble without having the money to pay up which will still happen whether gambling is legal or illegal....
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Legal gambling operations aren't going to kill you unlike the local gangsters. That was the point. You missed it.

so you don't want laws making prostitution illegal but want laws that protect a hookers health.... Makes no sense to me....
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No. Look at legal prostitution operations. The prostitutes are regularly checked. They aren't mistreated nearly as often as they would be under the thumb of some two bit violent pimp. Making it illegal only hurts people instead of helping them.

As to the rolling stop at 2 AM.... Ask the family from Tennessee that was killed a few months ago by a guy doing a rolling stop.... Traffic laws are meant to save lives.... It is why you have to take a test to get a license.
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How often does it happen? Are we going to criminalize every single thing that has the smallest chance of being dangerous? You might as well ban driving all together.

I noticed that, aside from the rolling stop, you didn't try to justify the other laws I talked about. Can you justify the illegality of gambling? Prostitution? Drugs?
 
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#1,488
#1,488
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Literally everything he asked was covered in that video. Yet, he's watched it right.....
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You still haven't said whther *YOU* find it an acceptable outcome for someone to be able to capture your land simply because their private police force might overwhelm your private police force. *YOU* haven't even detailed how a purely private police force could even prevent that from happening.

For someone that claims to support private property rights, you sure do seem to advocate for an environment that jeopardizes private property rights.
 
#1,489
#1,489
RobsPics said:
You still haven't said whther *YOU* find it an acceptable outcome for someone to be able to capture your land simply because their private police force might overwhelm your private police force. *YOU* haven't even detailed how a purely private police force could even prevent that from happening.

For someone that claims to support private property rights, you sure do seem to advocate for an environment that jeopardizes private property rights.
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Sure, by advocating for a free society where you are free to secure your property any way you see fit. Be it yourself or a protection agency.

Government is the most dangerous apparatus when private property is concerned.
 
#1,490
#1,490
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Sure, by advocating for a free society where you are free to secure your property any way you see fit. Be it yourself or a protection agency.

Government is the most dangerous apparatus when private property is concerned.
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Nothing you said prevents me from assembling my own private police force, to overwhelm your private police force and thus capturing your land. So what you said in no way protects private property. Rather, a private police force allows for the strongest to interfere with the private property rights of the weakest.
 
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#1,491
#1,491
RobsPics said:
Nothing you said prevents me from assembling my own private police force, to overwhelm your private police force and thus capturing your land. So what you said in no way protects private property. Rather, a private police force allows for the strongest to interfere with the private property rights of the weakest.
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Ok hoss, here goes....

You'd have protection agencies to provide protection to individuals and businesses. They'd have contracts with these folks and arbitrators who would settle disputes that would arise. The law of common dealings would dictate that these agencies would by contract agree to use a specific arbitrator i.e. Private court.
If one agency got out of control, it would behoove other agencies to get together to squash the rouge agency. In a free society your reputation would be your lifeline as no one will deal with you if they know you're crooked or break contracts.
 
#1,492
#1,492
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Ok hoss, here goes....

You'd have protection agencies to provide protection to individuals and businesses. They'd have contracts with these folks and arbitrators who would settle disputes that would arise. The law of common dealings would dictate that these agencies would by contract agree to use a specific arbitrator i.e. Private court.
If one agency got out of control, it would behoove other agencies to get together to squash the rouge agency. In a free society your reputation would be your lifeline as no one will deal with you if they know you're crooked or break contracts.
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Uh you ignored the possibility of a wealthier individual assembling his own private and exclusive police force. If you can't assemble, or hire, a stronger police force, then your private property rights are in jeopardy to the stronger person.

And how would these other agencies stop my private police force if mine overwhelms them? Again your placing private property rights at the mercy of the strongest person.

Furthermore, what about the property owner who cannot afford the services of a private police agency? Is he supposed to relinquish his private property rights to the person that can afford his own exclusive one?
 
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#1,493
#1,493
RobsPics said:
Uh you ignored the possibility of a wealthier individual assembling his own private and exclusive police force. If you can't assemble, or hire, a stronger police force, then your private property rights are in jeopardy to the stronger person.

And how would these other agencies stop by private police force if mine overwhelms them? Again your placing private property rights at the mercy of the strongest person.
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What you are talking about is happening now!!! You have one violent gang (government) who takes anything it wants. Why can't you understand that?

I'm willing to deal with the outcome of a free society. I have faith in a free people to solve problems without violence.

About your edit: most agencies would offer free services to the poor as a gesture of good faith to the communities they protect.
 
#1,494
#1,494
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
What you are talking about is happening now!!! You have one violent gang (government) who takes anything it wants. Why can't you understand that?
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Except the people have the power to influence that same government through voting, lobbying etc. In the private police hypo, other than money you wouldn't have any power to influence my private police force. Which is why a wealthier individual could take your land, and you would have nothing to say about it.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'm willing to deal with the outcome of a free society. I have faith in a free people to solve problems without violence.
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So if in this "free society", with only private police forces, if an individual could assemble a stronger police force than you can, you will just leave it to faith that the stronger individual will voluntarily honor your private property rights? Criminal trespass occurs every day. But you have faith that it won't occur in your "free society"?
 
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#1,495
#1,495
RobsPics said:
Except the people have the power to influence that same government through voting, lobbying etc. In the private police hypo, other than money you wouldn't have any power to influence my private police force. Which is why a wealthier individual could take your land, and you would have nothing to say about it.



So if in this "free society", with only private police forces, if an individual could assemble a stronger police force than you can, you will just leave it to faith that the stronger individual will voluntarily honor your private property rights? Criminal trespass occurs every day. But you have faith that it won't occur in your "free society"?
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I'm not saying that it won't happen in a free society. I'm saying it's already happening now in America by the government that supposedly works for the people.
 
#1,496
#1,496
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
About your edit: most agencies would offer free services to the poor as a gesture of good faith to the communities they protect.
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How do you know they would? Faith?

And even if that did happen, it still does not address the possibility of a stronger private and exclusive police force overwhelming the weaker force.
 
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#1,498
#1,498
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'm not saying that it won't happen in a free society. I'm saying it's already happening now in America by the government that supposedly works for the people.
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Even if it is happening now, there is still the power of the people to influence and stop it from happening...through voting, lobbying, law suits, etc.

In the private police force scenario, only money could influence a wealthy person's private police force...unless you have faith the individual, or the police personnel will voluntarily honor your idea of private property. That's a lot of faith.
 
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#1,499
#1,499
RobsPics said:
Even if it is happening now, there is still the power of the people to influence and change it from happening...through voting, lobbying, law suits, etc.

In the private police force scenario, only money could influence a wealthy person's private police force...unless you have faith the individual, or the police personnel will voluntarily honor your idea of private property. That's a lot of faith.
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Says the man who believes in lobbying the criminal gang known as government. Good day sir.
 
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#1,500
#1,500
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Again, we're at an empasse. I have no interest in continuing until you at least understand the basic concepts of which you speak against.
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