2016 Election Thread Part Deux

#626
#626
gcbvol said:
Really good point. I don't think many would consider Cruz an e candidate, but juxtaposed with Trump he often ends up there. Mainly because Trump is not a politician, at least in the traditional sense.

The reason I might consider a candidate establishment would be strong backing by the power brokers in the candidate's party. If the power players are pushing someone I take that as indication they feel that candidate can be controlled.
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Makes sense of the old hardliner version of the GOP. But I recall Rubio making a statement at CPAC about the "young conservative movement" and the figures therein. He mentioned himself, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Susana Martinez, Nikki Haley and Paul Ryan as examples of this movement. Provided it's different than the old GOP we are used to dealing with. And most certainly a driving force that has to be dealt with from within the GOP itself.

I'll agree with the "control" factor though to an extent, though I think it's less in recent years than in the past.
 
#628
#628
I think some of you see this election as if its an Occam's Razor type of situation. I would agree in the beginning it very much was intended to beat Trump down and push him out.

Backfired in a huge way.

But I also believe the GOP is pragmatic enough to see the writing on the wall and knows Trump has to be dealt with. They know fracturing the party is going to lose them power (as GCB stated) and bringing Trump into the fold is the only realistic scenario where they maintain some form of power as a national level party. Or a case of the mountain going to Moses depending on your perspective. You all can call me crazy all you want, but I don't think we are in a Mexican standoff here with Trump and the GOP waiting for the other to blink. A few months ago, I think that was the situation, but Trump has grown to a level where they can't wait him out. I think both are realistic enough to know where the path lies for a fractured party.
 
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#629
#629
Grand Vol said:
Makes sense of the old hardliner version of the GOP. But I recall Rubio making a statement at CPAC about the "young conservative movement" and the figures therein. He mentioned himself, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Susana Martinez, Nikki Haley and Paul Ryan as examples of this movement. Provided it's different than the old GOP we are used to dealing with. And most certainly a driving force that has to be dealt with from within the GOP itself.

I'll agree with the "control" factor though to an extent, though I think it's less in recent years than in the past.
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Makes a lot of sense big picture. I know some on here will disagree, but I think it a necessity the GOP adapt to better align with modern society. That doesn't mean leaving everything behind, but the first step is dumping the social crap. That war is pretty much over, so these rhetorical battles fought to appease segments of the base continue to be damaging with the remaining electorate.

Perhaps the young conservatives can bring the party forward, but not with guys like Cruz or theocrats.

Maybe it's because I'm a centrist but I think a lot more folks in this country fall in the middle than they do solid right or left, and that number is growing. Whenever I hear folks state the GOP needs to move further right I cringe; that simply does not align with society today. Now, again, if the move was toward fiscal conservatism we're talking a different story. Unfortunately, I don't see it.
 
#630
#630
Grand Vol said:
But I'll disagree with you thinking Rubio won't a potential VP choice. Between him and Trump, they carried 72% of Florida during the primary. And Rubio carried Miami-Dade which is critical in November. Being a swing State, that's a huge number on a primary for a front runner and a so called "third place" candidate. You have to remember, Romney lost Florida by less than 100K votes. And having a Florida Senator on the ballot that's "establishment" backed makes sense. Especially one that's popular in Miami-Dade County.

Same argument for Kasich in Ohio, though positions are reversed and the numbers are 82% for Trump/Kasich. And either of those candidates pledges to Trump and he's over that magical number of delegates. As well as being in a nice position to bring in Ohio or Florida, either of which are critical to a 2016 GOP victory.
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Yep... and between me and Peyton we have 5 NFL MVP Awards, 539 career passing TD's, 71,940 career passing yards, and 2 degrees from UT. :)

So I guess what you're suggesting is one way to look at it, but the other way to look at it is that 73% of the GOP voters in FL would rather vote for someone else besides their own state Senator.
 
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#631
#631
gcbvol said:
Makes a lot of sense big picture. I know some on here will disagree, but I think it a necessity the GOP adapt to better align with modern society. That doesn't mean leaving everything behind, but the first step is dumping the social crap. That war is pretty much over, so these rhetorical battles fought to appease segments of the base continue to be damaging with the remaining electorate.

Perhaps the young conservatives can bring the party forward, but not with guys like Cruz or theocrats.

Maybe it's because I'm a centrist but I think a lot more folks in this country fall in the middle than they do solid right or left, and that number is growing. Whenever I hear folks state the GOP needs to move further right I cringe; that simply does not align with society today. Now, again, if the move was toward fiscal conservatism we're talking a different story. Unfortunately, I don't see it.
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Cruz = opportunist.

Which is why he won't be the VP nod. Or at least I believe this.
 
#632
#632
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Yep... and between me and Peyton we have 5 NFL MVP Awards, 539 career passing TD's, 71,940 career passing yards, and 2 degrees from UT. :)

So I guess what you're suggesting is one way to look at it, but the other way to look at it is that 73% of the GOP voters in FL would rather vote for someone else besides their own state Senator.
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I already argued the glass half full deal with VB lol.
 
#633
#633
Grand Vol said:
You tend to be one of the more reasonable posters on here.

This isn't one of those times though. I never thought I'd see you voting for someone just to spite the other.
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Gramps and I are probably in the same age range. We've voted over the years for candidates who have promised one thing and another - lots of one thing or another - but don't follow through for many of us. We often haven't asked for much but fiscal responsibility - end the handouts to people, countries, groups, corporations, etc. We've asked to keep our money rather than having it taken and given away, and we've asked to protect our way of life - our life that had at least been pretty much the envy of the world. Well, we've run out of patience.

The Republican party has had the opportunity to stop what we see as a slide to socialism and to stop government corruption; it didn't do it. Obviously, we can't make change through the same old process, so why not some shock therapy. Some of the candidates running this time ran the last time and were rejected ... lost to Romney - wow ???!!! And you know what - they'll be back in all their inept glory in 2020 if there's a Republican party. The Republican party needs to learn "Lead, or get the hell out of the way" because it's certainly mastered the "follow" part.
 
#634
#634
gcbvol said:
Makes a lot of sense big picture. I know some on here will disagree, but I think it a necessity the GOP adapt to better align with modern society. That doesn't mean leaving everything behind, but the first step is dumping the social crap. That war is pretty much over, so these rhetorical battles fought to appease segments of the base continue to be damaging with the remaining electorate.

Perhaps the young conservatives can bring the party forward, but not with guys like Cruz or theocrats.

Maybe it's because I'm a centrist but I think a lot more folks in this country fall in the middle than they do solid right or left, and that number is growing. Whenever I hear folks state the GOP needs to move further right I cringe; that simply does not align with society today. Now, again, if the move was toward fiscal conservatism we're talking a different story. Unfortunately, I don't see it.
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Social crap; yes dump it. Not the role of government.

Moving right on individual liberty, reducing/rationalizing regulation, stalling the ever growing influence of federal government in our lives, living within our means? That kind of moving right makes sense to me.
 
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#637
#637
volinbham said:
Social crap; yes dump it. Not the role of government.

Moving right on individual liberty, reducing/rationalizing regulation, stalling the ever growing influence of federal government in our lives, living within our means? That kind of moving right makes sense to me.
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Agreed, and those items primarily align with fiscal conservatism and/or classical liberalism. The problem is the further right screams are mostly social in nature, which is wrong, wrong, wrong.
 
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#638
#638
gcbvol said:
Agreed, and those items primarily align with fiscal conservatism and/or classical liberalism. The problem is the further right screams are mostly social in nature, which is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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I've never been able to reconcile "get your hand out of my pocket" with "tell me how to live my life." Just doesn't make sense.
 
#639
#639
Remember when Romney's popularity went down the tubes when that secret recording came out? I think he called Obama supporters "Freeloaders.

Trump is winning the Republican nomination by dissing handicapped people

Donald Trump mocks reporter with disability – video | US news | The Guardian

Vets

Trump campaign implodes after McCain war hero insult | New York Post


women

Ad shows women reading Trump negative comments - CNNPolitics.com

inciting violence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCsX507lKc


And for all the pastors endorsing him, the Trump tower was struck by lightening in Chicago last Tuesday just as the polls closed. Two of his rally songs are "Sympathy for the Devil" and Brown Sugar.

Nothing matters.. He can do anything.. Our allies are concerned. What is so great that makes people think he can be a decent president? Had a reality show? Filed Bankruptcy 5 times? Dodged the draft? Had a rich daddy to give him money? I don't know why so many people can't see this.
 
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#643
#643
JCP201 said:
Remember when Romney's popularity went down the tubes when that secret recording came out? I think he called Obama supporters "Freeloaders.

Trump is winning the Republican nomination by dissing handicapped people

Donald Trump mocks reporter with disability – video | US news | The Guardian

Vets

Trump campaign implodes after McCain war hero insult | New York Post


women

Ad shows women reading Trump negative comments - CNNPolitics.com

inciting violence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCsX507lKc


And for all the pastors endorsing him, the Trump tower was struck by lightening in Chicago last Tuesday just as the polls closed. Two of his rally songs are "Sympathy for the Devil" and Brown Sugar.

Nothing matters.. He can do anything.. Our allies are concerned. What is so great that makes people think he can be a decent president? Had a reality show? Filed Bankruptcy 5 times? Dodged the draft? Had a rich daddy to give him money? I don't know why so many people can't see this.
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Our allies are concerned? Um...... Do you pay attention to current events?
 
#645
#645
JCP201 said:
Remember when Romney's popularity went down the tubes when that secret recording came out? I think he called Obama supporters "Freeloaders.

Trump is winning the Republican nomination by dissing handicapped people

Donald Trump mocks reporter with disability – video | US news | The Guardian

Vets

Trump campaign implodes after McCain war hero insult | New York Post


women

Ad shows women reading Trump negative comments - CNNPolitics.com

inciting violence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCsX507lKc


And for all the pastors endorsing him, the Trump tower was struck by lightening in Chicago last Tuesday just as the polls closed. Two of his rally songs are "Sympathy for the Devil" and Brown Sugar.

Nothing matters.. He can do anything.. Our allies are concerned. What is so great that makes people think he can be a decent president? Had a reality show? Filed Bankruptcy 5 times? Dodged the draft? Had a rich daddy to give him money? I don't know why so many people can't see this.
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My issue with Trump is that I don't believe he is a conservative.

All of the rest is nonsense. I've been through enough election cycles to know that that the conservative out front is going to be smeared as a bigot, misogynist, and anything else they can come up with.

Don't be fooled: if Cruz was out front right now, he'd be taking the heavy fire.

I'm not making apologies for Trump. I don't need to. He's the only presidential candidate on the Republican side that I can remember who actually punches back.
 
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#646
#646
On another note, fights a brewin' in Salt Lake City ahead of a Trump rally tonight. Getting pretty intense in the streets right now.
 
#649
#649
DC_Vol said:
My issue with Trump is that I don't believe he is a conservative.

All of the rest is nonsense. I've been through enough election cycles to know that that the conservative out front is going to be smeared as a bigot, misogynist, and anything else they can come up with.

Don't be fooled: if Cruz was out front right now, he'd be taking the heavy fire.

I'm not making apologies for Trump. I don't need to. He's the only presidential candidate on the Republican side that I can remember who actually punches back.
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And this is what has everyone messing their britches.....he's not going to lay down or go quietly
 
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#650
#650
But I thought Donald Trump supporters were the violent ones!

Illinois lawmaker's daughter charged in staple gun attack on political rival | Fox News

An Illinois state lawmaker’s daughter has been charged in connection with a staple gun attack on one of her mother’s political rivals, police said Friday.

Jessica Soto and her boyfriend Bradley Fichter, both 26, of Chicago, were charged with three counts of aggravated battery in a March 6 attack on Robert Zwolinski, Reuters reported.

Zwolinski was defeated by state Rep. Cynthia Soto, D-Chicago, in a primary election for the state's 4th District Tuesday.
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