2016 Election

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#11,876
#11,876
Grand Vol said:
I'm just wondering how long it's going to be before a group of Trump supporters does the same thing at a Hillary or Bernie rally...

You know there's someone out there thinking about it right now.
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He's emboldened them, and now they're riding high after experiencing a major incident which confirms, in their warped minds, their persecution-obsession.

I suspect it's only a matter of time before the thuggery of Trump's supporters starts to branch out beyond the "friendly" confines of his rallies' arenas, stadiums, and convention centers.

And before someone else quotes this with a response to the effect of "But the left, but the left...!" I'll ask when is someone going to take responsibility for their actions. Are you going to combat the hate from the Left by creating your own hateful narratives and instigating violence, or are you going to refuse those tactics altogether? Stop deflecting and start taking some responsibility. I thought conservatives were those who supported taking responsibility. I think at one time they were, but not anymore. Just another reason why I want my grandfather's Republican party and conservatism back, and not this new-fangled hateful, populist dumbassery it has given far too much power the last two to three decades.
 
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#11,877
#11,877
roosterjbh said:
I hope you're wrong, but I don't see any candidates (besides Bernie, but there's problems there too) making these changes.

God, I just wish it was someone else besides Trump.
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. In life, there are rarely neat black-and-white, good v. evil realities to choose from. The same with Trump. He brings up some good points; it's not like he's just a rambling demagogue.

But that's the point. If all he was was just the rambling demagogue version of Trump, then he wouldn't be seen as a viable presidential candidate.

We need someone to do some of the things Trump is seeking, but we just don't need him. And that is the problem. We need someone, but he isn't that guy.
 
#11,879
#11,879
volprof said:
He's emboldened them, and now they're riding high after experiencing a major incident which confirms, in their warped minds, their persecution-obsession.

I suspect it's only a matter of time before the thuggery of Trump's supporters starts to branch out beyond the "friendly" confines of his rallies' arenas, stadiums, and convention centers.

And before someone else quotes this with a response to the effect of "But the left, but the left...!" I'll ask when is someone going to take responsibility for their actions. Are you going to combat the hate from the Left by creating your own hateful narratives and instigating violence, or are you going to refuse those tactics altogether? Stop deflecting and start taking some responsibility. I thought conservatives were those who supported taking responsibility. I think at one time they were, but not anymore. Just another reason why I want my grandfather's Republican party and conservatism back, and not this new-fangled hateful, populist dumbassery it has given far too much power the last two to three decades.
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When violent mobs of trump supporters start causing trouble I'll be quick to speak up. Right now that's just not the reality of the situation. Come back when Trump supporters go in and disrupt all of bernies or hillarys events. They go in trying to stir up trouble only to play the victim when they find it. So stop with the persecution bit.

This is the MO of leftists, and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.
 
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#11,880
#11,880
DC_Vol said:
When violent mobs of trump supporters start causing trouble I'll be quick to speak up. Right now that's just not the reality of the situation. Come back when Trump supporters go in and disrupt all of bernies or hillarys events. They go in trying to stir up trouble only to play the victim when they find it. So stop with the persecution bit.

This is the MO of leftists, and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.
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Yes, the Trumpers are all just passive, innocent little snowflakes, aren't they?

Stop apologizing for and enabling them. They don't need your help. They already have one of the loudest SOBs in America egging them on.
 
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#11,882
#11,882
volprof said:
Yes, the Trumpers are all just passive, innocent little snowflakes, aren't they?

Stop apologizing for and enabling them. They don't need your help. They already have one of the loudest SOBs in America egging them on.
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I never offered any apology on their behalf. I'm just calling out what I see as a boatload of BS.

C'mon, prof. Who is looking for trouble here? Everybody is out fishing for their 15 minutes of SJW fame.
 
#11,883
#11,883
DC_Vol said:
Bernie has created a toxic environment by demonizing wealthy people. He gets people stirred up by sharing his beliefs within our democratic process. Can we place some blame at his feet?
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I don't disagree that Bernie has rhetoric that, when received by those who are not meticulous, causes some to irrationally hate those who they think, whether fairly or not, are "oppressing" them.

The difference, however, is that Bernie is not telling his supporters to go and commit acts of violence. I don't care if Trump is joking or not; it's about how the comments affect people, as you point out, perhaps partially in jest, with Bernie.

I don't know why we can't just admit the Trump's tactics for what they are. He has actively sought to divide Americans and massage their seething hate and tensions, and now some want to act like it's all the fault of liberals. That's not the conservatism of old. The conservatism of old would have seen this problem and called it out early on for what it is, instead of enabling it by constantly passing the blame.
 
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#11,884
#11,884
DC_Vol said:
I never offered any apology on their behalf. I'm just calling out what I see as a boatload of BS.

C'mon, prof. Who is looking for trouble here? Everybody is out fishing for their 15 minutes of SJW fame.
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You're presenting them as not responsible for their actions and at the whim of liberal protesters. In that sense, yes, you are apologizing for and enabling them, although that is probably not your intention.

SJW fame? I may be in the minority here, but I think many Trump supporters are just the opposite side of that coin, and that's the reason why the two hate one another so much.
 
#11,886
#11,886
DC_Vol said:
Bernie has created a toxic environment by demonizing wealthy people. He gets people stirred up by sharing his beliefs within our democratic process. Can we place some blame at his feet?
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We need to place the blame at the feet of divisive populism in general. Drawing clear lines between groups, whether by class, race, or whatever, is not a healthy tactic. That's what Bernie and Trump get off on.
 
#11,887
#11,887
DC_Vol said:
Bernie has created a toxic environment by demonizing wealthy people. He gets people stirred up by sharing his beliefs within our democratic process. Can we place some blame at his feet?
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Do liberals like volprof, who blame Trump for being provocative and thereby enticing the protesters' bad behavior, also blame women who dress in sexy clothes for getting raped? Do they also bring it on themselves, according to volprof?
 
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#11,888
#11,888
volprof said:
I don't disagree that Bernie has rhetoric that, when received by those who are not meticulous, causes some to irrationally hate those who they think, whether fairly or not, are "oppressing" them.

The difference, however, is that Bernie is not telling his supporters to go and commit acts of violence. I don't care if Trump is joking or not; it's about how the comments affect people, as you point out, perhaps partially in jest, with Bernie.
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Dear God, the hypocrisy in these two paragraphs is astounding. So when Bernie spews hate and division between rich and poor, it's because people "aren't meticulous enough" to digest what he actually means. What's scary is that idiots like you are educating people and forcing their ideas onto unknowing youths.
 
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#11,889
#11,889
volprof said:
You're presenting them as not responsible for their actions and at the whim of liberal protesters. In that sense, yes, you are apologizing for and enabling them, although that is probably not your intention.
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When have I ever said that? I think everyone is responsible for their own actions. I've only argued that Trump, and by proxy Bernie, are not responsible for violence perpetrated by their supporters. Anyone who commits such acts should be held accountable.

I went on to point out that while there are no mobs of Trump supporters out looking for trouble, we do see just the opposite. My beef is that instead of blaming the mob, a lot of people are blaming Trump. I think I'll hold off on dragging him through the mud until I have a reason not to.

Both have demonized certain segments of the population. That's politics, and it happens in every election cycle. It's just that certain segments are sacred cows to some people and their anger and actions are considered justified.
 
#11,890
#11,890
Trump is targeting the political elite. So the political elite and their followers are scared.

But he's not talking about kicking their ass. The only one he says that about is ISIS
 
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#11,891
#11,891
1972 Grad said:
Do liberals like volprof, who blame Trump for being provocative and thereby enticing the protesters' bad behavior, also blame women who dress in sexy clothes for getting raped? Do they also bring it on themselves, according to volprof?
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The difference is, poster who doesn't think he's superior and arrogant, is that the women in your dumb example are not lashing out violently as well. They're also not following around another woman who is stirring up trouble by creating a divisive "Us v. Them" narrative.

And stop putting words in my mouth. It's enough that I have to hear you rant constantly about Cheney and me and about "meds" and me (because, I'm apparently the one who thinks himself "superior") like a damn 10 year old. Then I also have to read posts where you portray me in ways that I have not claimed. I'm not a "liberal." I once was, as I also was once a conservative religious zealot. I've made this change amply clear on here though, so please stop portraying me in ways that fit your small-minded frames for making sense out of the world.

I know it's hard, but you're going to have to use your brain on occasion, big boy.
 
#11,892
#11,892
DC_Vol said:
When have I ever said that? I think everyone is responsible for their own actions. I've only argued that Trump, and by proxy Bernie, are not responsible for violence perpetrated by their supporters. Anyone who commits such acts should be held accountable.

I went on to point out that while there are no mobs of Trump supporters out looking for trouble, we do see just the opposite. My beef is that instead of blaming the mob, a lot of people are blaming Trump. I think I'll hold off on dragging him through the mud until I have a reason not to.

Both have demonized certain segments of the population. That's politics, and it happens in every election cycle. It's just that certain segments are sacred cows to some people and their anger and actions are considered justified.
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Perhaps they're all to blame?
 
#11,893
#11,893
UTCVol said:
We need to place the blame at the feet of divisive populism in general. Drawing clear lines between groups, whether by class, race, or whatever, is not a healthy tactic. That's what Bernie and Trump get off on.
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That's a part of politics. And I would argue that no one has done it better than the Clintons, so I'm surprised their names are left out of that. The Obamas have done more to further the racial divide in a leadership capacity than anyone since the Klan ran parts of the government.

Trump is actually pulling a very wide demographic, so I find the argument for him doing that a little odd.
 
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#11,895
#11,895
volprof said:
The difference is, poster who doesn't think he's superior and arrogant, is that the women in your dumb example are not lashing out violently as well. They're also not following around another woman who is stirring up trouble by creating a divisive "Us v. Them" narrative.

And stop putting words in my mouth. It's enough that I have to hear you rant constantly about Cheney and me and about "meds" and me (because, I'm apparently the one who thinks himself "superior") like a damn 10 year old. Then I also have to read posts where you portray me in ways that I have not claimed. I'm not a "liberal." I once was, as I also was once a conservative religious zealot. I've made this change amply clear on here though, so please stop portraying me in ways that fit your small-minded frames for making sense out of the world.

I know it's hard, but you're going to have to use your brain on occasion, big boy.
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I get it now. Bernie, Obama, and Hillary are doing us versus them, thereby enticing protesters to disrupt Trump rallies.
 
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#11,896
#11,896
DC_Vol said:
That's a part of politics. And I would argue that no one has done it better than the Clintons, so I'm surprised their names are left out of that. The Obamas have done more to further the racial divide in a leadership capacity than anyone since the Klan ran parts of the government.

Trump is actually pulling a very wide demographic, so I find the argument for him doing that a little odd.
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Only way Dems win is through "class warfare"......
 
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#11,899
#11,899
volprof said:
The difference is, poster who doesn't think he's superior and arrogant, is that the women in your dumb example are not lashing out violently as well. They're also not following around another woman who is stirring up trouble by creating a divisive "Us v. Them" narrative.

And stop putting words in my mouth. It's enough that I have to hear you rant constantly about Cheney and me and about "meds" and me (because, I'm apparently the one who thinks himself "superior") like a damn 10 year old. Then I also have to read posts where you portray me in ways that I have not claimed. I'm not a "liberal." I once was, as I also was once a conservative religious zealot. I've made this change amply clear on here though, so please stop portraying me in ways that fit your small-minded frames for making sense out of the world.

I know it's hard, but you're going to have to use your brain on occasion, big boy.
Click to expand...

no you don't
 
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