2016 Election

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#11,151
#11,151
Gramps said:
Yes, the establishment pushed endorsing him. The Republican Establishment will do anything it can to keep Trump from winning the nomination. They realize they cannot control him. They are in the process of destroying Rubio's political future simply because of their hate of Trump.

This is a very different primary season than we have ever had. I have neve saw a party try to destroy the person headed to their nomination before.
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We're going to agree to disagree on this one. I have my own theories about what's going on with regards to Trump, the "establishment" and this election season and it basically conflicts with yours in a big way.
 
#11,152
#11,152
Gramps said:
Yes, the establishment pushed endorsing him. The Republican Establishment will do anything it can to keep Trump from winning the nomination. They realize they cannot control him. They are in the process of destroying Rubio's political future simply because of their hate of Trump.

This is a very different primary season than we have ever had. I have neve saw a party try to destroy the person headed to their nomination before.
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I agree with the Granpa. A broken clock is right twice a day :)
 
#11,153
#11,153
Grand Vol said:
We're going to agree to disagree on this one. I have my own theories about what's going on with regards to Trump, the "establishment" and this election season and it basically conflicts with yours in a big way.
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We can do that.

I would think we can at least agree the actions of the GOP Establishment is a disgrace.
 
#11,154
#11,154
Gramps said:
I would think we can at least agree the actions of the GOP Establishment is a disgrace.
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If viewed from an perspective of thinking it isn't just a big show to keep the GOP candidates in the news...

Be careful Gramps, the conspiracy theory side of me is coming out.
 
#11,157
#11,157
hog88 said:
Sanders doesn't give two rats asses about the poor of any color. All he and Dem leadership care about is controlling their votes and that means keeping them dependent. Yes he and Hillary are both racist since they both think African Americans need them to be successful.

Talk about believing in unicorns.
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I disagree about Bernie. I can clearly see Hillary as just another member of the democratic party trying to maintain power. Bernie has been independent until just a year or so ago. I wouldn't label Bernie as a traditional democrat. The party wants to win this election first and foremost of course,and Hillary gives them the best chance to win. Im curious to see how much Bernie will begin to piss off the core of Democratic Party.
 
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#11,158
#11,158
Gramps said:
I have never saw Trump nor any other candidate rattled as bad as Rubio was. Rubio was acting like a kindergarten kid being scolded. It was pathetic. If you recall I and others said basically the same thing the night of the debate. Christi flat out owned him.
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Yup. I seem to recall wanting to buy him some icecream.
The funniest thing about that whole exchange was Christi roasting him for repeating himself, then go on to talk about being a prosecutor and part of the executive branch like 376 times.
 
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#11,159
#11,159
apevol said:
Yup. I seem to recall wanting to buy him some icecream.
The funniest thing about that whole exchange was Christi roasting him for repeating himself, then go on to talk about being a prosecutor and part of the executive branch like 376 times.
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GV called it correct that night. He said Christi had made a deal with someone to destroy Rubio. The fat dude did that with ease. IIRC, Christi quit the race a couple of days after that.
 
#11,160
#11,160
Grand Vol said:
I might destroy some people's faith in the "Trump is the outsider" principle he's running on.
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Ha Ha .. sometimes it is wise to keep one's thoughts to themselve. With that said the board will be hunky dory to hear your conspiracy theory on this so we all will know just how bat shat crazy GV can get. :crazy:
 
#11,161
#11,161
Gramps said:
GV called it correct that night. He said Christi had made a deal with someone to destroy Rubio. The fat dude did that with ease. IIRC, Christi quit the race a couple of days after that.
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He definitely highlighted Rubio having an inability to think on his feet. Rubio started honing his skill for national embarrassment when he gave the GOP response to the state of the Union address a few years ago, though.
 
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#11,162
#11,162
Gramps said:
Bring it own. May be interesting to read.
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Okay, you asked for it...

Let's just say the "establishment" (again, which cannot be clearly defined) knows Trump is not going to get beaten and it's a foregone conclusion he will be the nominee. And much of this rhetoric as of late (Romney and whatnot) is just keeping the idea of Trump being the nominee in the news. And gaining more voters heading to the polls to keep him in that spot or attracting new voters to the fold. You and I both know many people will hold their nose and vote for Trump in the General Election as the "ABC" (Anyone But Clinton) crowd is strong.

So what if the mainstream GOP knows this and also knows how much support Trump has brought in? And instead of the news focusing on an increasingly tighter race between Bernie and Hillary, they continue to say "WTF did Trump just say?" as they write article after article about it. Or talking about Rubio and his actions. Or how Kasich could take Ohio. The only one suspiciously left out of the mix is Cruz, which I truly don't believe the GOP wants. But at the same time, his Senate seat in Texas is pretty safe, so he isn't losing a thing.

But in taking a page from Trump's own playbook to be as outrageous as possible, the "establishment" keeps all the GOP nominees in the news with Rubio attacking Trump, Cruz attacking Rubio, Trump attacking them both, Kasich being the nice guy outsider, but still up there in the press. And furthermore, doing so in order to attract more people to the campaign. Think about your traditional election year theatrics and how the press tends to be filled with the DNC candidates. However, this year, it's all about the GOP. If that kind of thing went unnoticed by the GOP, they are far more incompetent than I believe. And I don't believe they are as incompetent as others do.

So anyway, brass tacks theory. What if this is a carefully calculated move by the "establishment" behind the scenes to keep the GOP in the press as well as attracting voters to Trump's campaign? That the two could be working behind the scenes in order to craft this kind of thing? Is it that hard for them to say "we see the writing on the wall, let's get this done together." I've said all along Trump needs the "establishment" and the "establishment" needs Trump in order to win. And what about Rubio you might ask? I tend to think he'll be just fine in the long run even though some pundits are saying he's "damaging" his future hopes. Same thing with Kasich and Cruz. I don't think they will be damaged at all when this is all said and done. You said Rubio was in a "downward spiral" after NH, but in every poll he went up. After Christie's suicide bombing, he should have been done. But he rose in the polls. How is that even possible?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is a lot of double dealing going on in this election behind the scenes. And something of this magnitude would not be outside the realm of possibility. I think Trump's rise to the top was not foreseen, but at the same time cannot be ignored. And this last ditch effort by the "establishment" to stop the speeding fright train with a rubber band doesn't make any sense at all. But it certainly has kept the GOP as well as the candidates in the news. And brought record numbers of voters into the primary elections. And high amounts of donations as well. But make no mistake about it, the GOP has owned the media this year.

Call me crazy if you want, but overall, I think this has been carefully calculated with the summation at the Convention this summer. Trump gets announced as the candidate with an "establishment" VP (Rubio maybe?) along with additional concessions (Cabinet members likely) and they move on to Hillary.
 
#11,163
#11,163
apevol said:
He definitely highlighted Rubio having an inability to think on his feet. Rubio started honing his skill for national embarrassment when he gave the GOP response to the state of the Union address a few years ago, though.
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That he did. He did seem to recoup from that somewhat. It may still be haunting him to some voters
 
#11,164
#11,164
Gramps said:
Ha Ha .. sometimes it is wise to keep one's thoughts to themselve. With that said the board will be hunky dory to hear your conspiracy theory on this so we all will know just how bat shat crazy GV can get. :crazy:
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You've made the mistake of thinking I'm crazy before and had to begrudgingly admit I was right. :p
 
#11,165
#11,165
Grand Vol said:
Okay, you asked for it...

Let's just say the "establishment" (again, which cannot be clearly defined) knows Trump is not going to get beaten and it's a foregone conclusion he will be the nominee. And much of this rhetoric as of late (Romney and whatnot) is just keeping the idea of Trump being the nominee in the news. And gaining more voters heading to the polls to keep him in that spot or attracting new voters to the fold. You and I both know many people will hold their nose and vote for Trump in the General Election as the "ABC" (Anyone But Clinton) crowd is strong.

So what if the mainstream GOP knows this and also knows how much support Trump has brought in? And instead of the news focusing on an increasingly tighter race between Bernie and Hillary, they continue to say "WTF did Trump just say?" as they write article after article about it. Or talking about Rubio and his actions. Or how Kasich could take Ohio. The only one suspiciously left out of the mix is Cruz, which I truly don't believe the GOP wants. But at the same time, his Senate seat in Texas is pretty safe, so he isn't losing a thing.

But in taking a page from Trump's own playbook to be as outrageous as possible, the "establishment" keeps all the GOP nominees in the news with Rubio attacking Trump, Cruz attacking Rubio, Trump attacking them both, Kasich being the nice guy outsider, but still up there in the press. And furthermore, doing so in order to attract more people to the campaign. Think about your traditional election year theatrics and how the press tends to be filled with the DNC candidates. However, this year, it's all about the GOP. If that kind of thing went unnoticed by the GOP, they are far more incompetent than I believe. And I don't believe they are as incompetent as others do.

So anyway, brass tacks theory. What if this is a carefully calculated move by the "establishment" behind the scenes to keep the GOP in the press as well as attracting voters to Trump's campaign? That the two could be working behind the scenes in order to craft this kind of thing? Is it that hard for them to say "we see the writing on the wall, let's get this done together." I've said all along Trump needs the "establishment" and the "establishment" needs Trump in order to win. And what about Rubio you might ask? I tend to think he'll be just fine in the long run even though some pundits are saying he's "damaging" his future hopes. Same thing with Kasich and Cruz. I don't think they will be damaged at all when this is all said and done. You said Rubio was in a "downward spiral" after NH, but in every poll he went up. After Christie's suicide bombing, he should have been done. But he rose in the polls. How is that even possible?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is a lot of double dealing going on in this election behind the scenes. And something of this magnitude would not be outside the realm of possibility. I think Trump's rise to the top was not foreseen, but at the same time cannot be ignored. And this last ditch effort by the "establishment" to stop the speeding fright train with a rubber band doesn't make any sense at all. But it certainly has kept the GOP as well as the candidates in the news. And brought record numbers of voters into the primary elections. And high amounts of donations as well. But make no mistake about it, the GOP has owned the media this year.

Call me crazy if you want, but overall, I think this has been carefully calculated with the summation at the Convention this summer. Trump gets announced as the candidate with an "establishment" VP (Rubio maybe?) along with additional concessions (Cabinet members likely) and they move on to Hillary.
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Holy Sheep shat. You just as crazy as the rest of us political forum posters.

Has Granny been giving you some of my meds?


Just kidding. Now for my response.


A lot of thought in that post.
One thing I see wrong with your theory is Trump has kept the GOP nomination in the news since the day he announced. He has received more airtime from the news networks that all other candidates combined( my observation only) and continues to do so. I am reluctant to say this but it does appear Trump has a movement going on. He has struck a nerve with voter from the right, left and middle.

I don't think the numbers we are seeing on the primaries and caucuses has anything to do with the establishment, it is a revolt against the establishment. In any normal cycle Kasich would have already been declared the winner.

You keep saying how Rubio rose in the polls after the disaster against Christi. I don't see it. Rubio was on the rise until that night. His campaign was set to takeoff. If he had such a rise in the polls, why did it not reflect on actual votes for him ?
 
#11,166
#11,166
Grand Vol said:
You've made the mistake of thinking I'm crazy before and had to begrudgingly admit I was right. :p
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I have never thought you are crazy. I have disagreed with your assessment of somethings and yes admitted you were right. It was not begrudgingly. I will argue my thoughts hard but if proven wrong I will admit I was wrong. If I say something out of line to a poster I will cone back and apologize to that poster. I have done that several times. I apologized to you a month or so ago after going off the deep end. Getting old suxs, you young punks gets the best of me way too often these days. :)
 
#11,167
#11,167
Gramps said:
One thing I see wrong with your theory is Trump has kept the GOP nomination in the news since the day he announced. He has received more airtime from the news networks that all other candidates combined( my observation only) and continues to do so. I am reluctant to say this but it does appear Trump has a movement going on. He has struck a nerve with voter from the right, left and middle.
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That's pretty much the point I was trying to make. He has been in the news and stays in the news. But had he been a Kasich type of candidate (Mister Nice Guy) I think he would never have gone that far. You are correct he has a movement going on. And it's attracting people from all sorts of positions. And again, if the GOP has missed that (I'm sure they haven't) they are idiots.

Gramps said:
I don't think the numbers we are seeing on the primaries and caucuses has anything to do with the establishment, it is a revolt against the establishment. In any normal cycle Kasich would have already been declared the winner.
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Actually, I think in a normal cycle, Jeb would have been your guy. But, yes, a more moderate candidate would have been the go-to in a different world.

I agree it's a revolt against the "establishment" (which you still won't define lol) and he's brought a new dynamic to the election that's been missing in the past. And I think his continued support, regardless of his lack of substance on anything, was because of what you said, the people wanting something different.

Now, again, if the GOP cannot see this, they are idiots. And I do not think they are or else they wouldn't be spending the kinds of money on ads against Trump. Which so far has done little more than increase his numbers. If they really wanted to destroy him at this point, they'd embrace the **** out of him. But by going on the offensive, they do little more than reinforce his numbers and make him a stronger candidate.

Gramps said:
You keep saying how Rubio rose in the polls after the disaster against Christi. I don't see it. Rubio was on the rise until that night. His campaign was set to takeoff. If he had such a rise in the polls, why did it not reflect on actual votes for him ?
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Killing me...

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Republican Presidential Nomination

Feb 3, Rubio is at the end of a downward trend in polling and is sitting around 10 in the RCP average. Feb 6, he gets Christie'd at the debate.

On Feb 13, his numbers are sitting around 20 according to RCP. He went up in the polling after the NH debate where you say he started a "downward spiral." The numbers don't lie Gramps.
 
#11,168
#11,168
Gramps said:
I have never thought you are crazy. I have disagreed with your assessment of somethings and yes admitted you were right. It was not begrudgingly. I will argue my thoughts hard but if proven wrong I will admit I was wrong. If I say something out of line to a poster I will cone back and apologize to that poster. I have done that several times. I apologized to you a month or so ago after going off the deep end. Getting old suxs, you young punks gets the best of me way too often these days. :)
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I was joking. I wouldn't toss that kind of "I told you so" into your face.
 
#11,169
#11,169
Grand Vol said:
That's pretty much the point I was trying to make. He has been in the news and stays in the news. But had he been a Kasich type of candidate (Mister Nice Guy) I think he would never have gone that far. You are correct he has a movement going on. And it's attracting people from all sorts of positions. And again, if the GOP has missed that (I'm sure they haven't) they are idiots.



Actually, I think in a normal cycle, Jeb would have been your guy. But, yes, a more moderate candidate would have been the go-to in a different world.

I agree it's a revolt against the "establishment" (which you still won't define lol) and he's brought a new dynamic to the election that's been missing in the past. And I think his continued support, regardless of his lack of substance on anything, was because of what you said, the people wanting something different.

Now, again, if the GOP cannot see this, they are idiots. And I do not think they are or else they wouldn't be spending the kinds of money on ads against Trump. Which so far has done little more than increase his numbers. If they really wanted to destroy him at this point, they'd embrace the **** out of him. But by going on the offensive, they do little more than reinforce his numbers and make him a stronger candidate.



Killing me...

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - 2016 Republican Presidential Nomination

Feb 3, Rubio is at the end of a downward trend in polling and is sitting around 10 in the RCP average. Feb 6, he gets Christie'd at the debate.


On Feb 13, his numbers are sitting around 20 acco
rding to RCP. He went up in the polling after the NH debate where you say he started a "downward spiral." The numbers don't lie Gramps.
Click to expand...

The only numbers that count are at the election booth. They don't lie. Poll numbers are wrong at times for several reasons.

We can argue over when and why but the bottom line is Rubio is finished in the 2016 race unless he comes in play at a brokered convention.
 
#11,171
#11,171
Gramps said:
The only numbers that count are at the election booth. They don't lie. Poll numbers are wrong at times for several reasons.

We can argue over when and why but the bottom line is Rubio is finished in the 2016 race unless he comes in play at a brokered convention.
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I don't disagree he is finished unless by some miracle Trump gets abducted by aliens (not the ones from south of the border, the little gray kind) and Cruz is finally seen for what he truly is. But your point was that he was "heading downward" after NH when that just isn't the case. He finished 3rd in Iowa, 5th in NH (after the debate) then on to 2nd in SC and NV and didn't finish lower than 3rd in any of the Super Tuesday voting or since with the exception of Maine.
 
#11,172
#11,172
tumscalcium said:
He was TRYING to be sarcastic, but his intentions showed.

Septic is a hardcore white guilt lib. His intention was to try and portray that people claim that only those that draw on social programs are minorities, which of course is false, worthless white people are brought up as well. He just tried highlighting that it's never brought up that white people can also be worthless, which is false. I'll say it again so you can hopefully understand. He TRIED to say peole only point at minorities for being worthless which is false. He fabricated a lie to make conservatives look bad (par for the course). I pointed him in the right direction.

You're about 10 steps behind, where you usually are, but at least try to keep up. You're still realizing he tried to make up a point.
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:popcorn:
 
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