Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXV

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#2,852
#2,852
Brillovol said:
About all this rape culture stuff...

I wonder if the real problem isn't on college campuses, but the sexual culture in America today. Let's see, you get sex in movies, on prime time TV, and any image you want at the click of a mouse or a tap on your phone. If it's not that obvious, you have women objectifying themselves in all of these arenas almost completely voluntarily by the way they dress and the parts they play. To make matters worse, young females dress all too often in ways that don't leave much to the imagination anywhere we go. Even moms in their uncovered yoga pants. I have a wife and two daughters. You can look beautiful without showing skin.

And not that it's all the fault of women either. Men want to see more, so the more skin is shown, the more it drives up the dollars in movies, on websites, and in clothing stores. Sex sells, men lap it up, and force the economic demand. Men of all ages are so visually drawn to it that the desire for sexual fulfillment gets more and more perverted with every passing miniskirt or image on a screen. Women who want the attention get it...and then some. Sometimes with devastating results.

It's a vicious cycle that can only be overcome by grace in America as a whole. Some campus committee can't do this. They can only enforce the rules.




Tl;dr: The sexual culture isn't the fault of colleges. It's the fault of mainstream America.
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Ding ding ding!! We have a winner!! Hammer meet nail.
 
#2,853
#2,853
BruinVol said:
A person that is legally intoxicated can't legally consent to sex

Thus every drunken sex act is rape
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Yet, the person involved in the sex act made the choice to drink the beverages to get drunk. Once again, this is where our American society is...instead of taking responsibility for your actions, put the blame on someone else. It's a sad place where this country is currently.
 
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#2,854
#2,854
Brillovol said:
About all this rape culture stuff...

I wonder if the real problem isn't on college campuses, but the sexual culture in America today. Let's see, you get sex in movies, on prime time TV, and any image you want at the click of a mouse or a tap on your phone. If it's not that obvious, you have women objectifying themselves in all of these arenas almost completely voluntarily by the way they dress and the parts they play. To make matters worse, young females dress all too often in ways that don't leave much to the imagination anywhere we go. Even moms in their uncovered yoga pants. I have a wife and two daughters. You can look beautiful without showing skin.

And not that it's all the fault of women either. Men want to see more, so the more skin is shown, the more it drives up the dollars in movies, on websites, and in clothing stores. Sex sells, men lap it up, and force the economic demand. Men of all ages are so visually drawn to it that the desire for sexual fulfillment gets more and more perverted with every passing miniskirt or image on a screen. Women who want the attention get it...and then some. Sometimes with devastating results.

It's a vicious cycle that can only be overcome by grace in America as a whole. Some campus committee can't do this. They can only enforce the rules.




Tl;dr: The sexual culture isn't the fault of colleges. It's the fault of mainstream America.
Click to expand...
Add to that that women are much more sexualy aggressive than several years ago. Legally they can take a man right to the brink, (if you know what I mean) and then say no.
 
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#2,855
#2,855
Darth_Shiveman said:
I don't buy it. Sexual openness isn't the problem. College campuses have always been full of sex, drugs, and alcohol.


The only difference now is that we conceptualize rape and sexual assault differently and women have more resources to easily make this type of stuff known. 20-30 years ago if a girl drank too much and was taken advantage of, then people told her it was her fault. Nowadays on some campuses they tell kids that if you have any level of intoxication, you can't give consent. In the past, women who reported rape were often not given the benefit of the doubt if they'd been out drinking or partying. Nowadays, the opposite is usually true.

We've shifted from one extreme to the other when it comes to conceptualizing and reporting sexual assault. That's why we're seeing all of these issues. College kids' sexual habits are basically the same nowadays as they have been for the past 30-40 years. That isn't what has changed.
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I think this is a wise observation. I guess what you're saying is a few years ago a lot of the responsibility was placed on the alleged victim for putting themselves in the situation to be taken advantage of and now days the alleged victim has zero responsibility regardless of their actions prior to the event.
 
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#2,857
#2,857
BruinVol said:
A person that is legally intoxicated can't legally consent to sex

Thus every drunken sex act is rape
Click to expand...

I have to disagree a little bit. I would say every drunken sex act is a potential rape based upon how the participant feels about it when they realize what happened. I am sure that there are plenty of women who like to get intoxicated and have sex. Perception is everything here and it is a very, very difficult situation as both parties might not make the same decision if they were not under the influence. But, I agree. People do plenty of things intoxicated that they likely would not do if sober and some bit of responsibility has to lie with the decision to become intoxicated. I still think no means no, regardless of when or how it is given and that has to get ingrained in every man's head or they could end up in a situation where they honestly think that they have done nothing wrong, but still get accused. It really is an extremely difficult situation.
 
#2,858
#2,858
drvenner said:
I have to disagree a little bit. I would say every drunken sex act is a potential rape based upon how the participant feels about it when they realize what happened. I am sure that there are plenty of women who like to get intoxicated and have sex. Perception is everything here and it is a very, very difficult situation as both parties might not make the same decision if they were not under the influence. But, I agree. People do plenty of things intoxicated that they likely would not do if sober and some bit of responsibility has to lie with the decision to become intoxicated. I still think no means no, regardless of when or how it is given and that has to get ingrained in every man's head or they could end up in a situation where they honestly think that they have done nothing wrong, but still get accused. It really is an extremely difficult situation.
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No he's right. Legally, drunk sex is non-consensual sex, even if the girl is saying yes, pushing for it, whatever.

I'm waiting for the day when a man accuses rape due to him being drunk.
 
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#2,859
#2,859
Brillovol said:
About all this rape culture stuff...

I wonder if the real problem isn't on college campuses, but the sexual culture in America today. Let's see, you get sex in movies, on prime time TV, and any image you want at the click of a mouse or a tap on your phone. If it's not that obvious, you have women objectifying themselves in all of these arenas almost completely voluntarily by the way they dress and the parts they play. To make matters worse, young females dress all too often in ways that don't leave much to the imagination anywhere we go. Even moms in their uncovered yoga pants. I have a wife and two daughters. You can look beautiful without showing skin.

And not that it's all the fault of women either. Men want to see more, so the more skin is shown, the more it drives up the dollars in movies, on websites, and in clothing stores. Sex sells, men lap it up, and force the economic demand. Men of all ages are so visually drawn to it that the desire for sexual fulfillment gets more and more perverted with every passing miniskirt or image on a screen. Women who want the attention get it...and then some. Sometimes with devastating results.

It's a vicious cycle that can only be overcome by grace in America as a whole. Some campus committee can't do this. They can only enforce the rules.

Tl;dr: The sexual culture isn't the fault of colleges. It's the fault of mainstream America.
Click to expand...

Society is all about instant gratification these days. No one wants to wait...for anything.

I'm sitting in bed with my three daughters right now having to calm down my two year old because she doesn't understand what a commercial is...we're watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. She's pissed because she's used to the DVR and instant streaming. Defcon 2 because of a few commercials. Yeah...

Perhaps that's a stretch but it's a microcosm of the issue at hand. Everything you want is at your fingertips nowadays, including every sort of depraved sex act you can imagine. Kids are far more informed about these things at a much younger age, in a much broader scope than I even care to think about. It can warp the mind and often does. Maybe not the root cause but definitely a contributing factor.
 
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#2,860
#2,860
Brillovol said:
About all this rape culture stuff...

I wonder if the real problem isn't on college campuses, but the sexual culture in America today. Let's see, you get sex in movies, on prime time TV, and any image you want at the click of a mouse or a tap on your phone. If it's not that obvious, you have women objectifying themselves in all of these arenas almost completely voluntarily by the way they dress and the parts they play. To make matters worse, young females dress all too often in ways that don't leave much to the imagination anywhere we go. Even moms in their uncovered yoga pants. I have a wife and two daughters. You can look beautiful without showing skin.

And not that it's all the fault of women either. Men want to see more, so the more skin is shown, the more it drives up the dollars in movies, on websites, and in clothing stores. Sex sells, men lap it up, and force the economic demand. Men of all ages are so visually drawn to it that the desire for sexual fulfillment gets more and more perverted with every passing miniskirt or image on a screen. Women who want the attention get it...and then some. Sometimes with devastating results.

It's a vicious cycle that can only be overcome by grace in America as a whole. Some campus committee can't do this. They can only enforce the rules.



Tl;dr: The sexual culture isn't the fault of colleges. It's the fault of mainstream America.
Click to expand...


Good post. Most "content" has been around for decades but with the internet it's virtually an all-access pass. Add underage sexting, we have innocence lost, and innocents playing a very dangerous game
 
#2,861
#2,861
orangeblood79 said:
Society is all about instant gratification these days. No one wants to wait...for anything.

I'm sitting in bed with my three daughters right now having to calm down my two year old because she doesn't understand what a commercial is...we're watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. She's pissed because she's used to the DVR and instant streaming. Defcon 2 because of a few commercials. Yeah...

Perhaps that's a stretch but it's a microcosm of the issue at hand. Everything you want is at your fingertips nowadays, including every sort of depraved sex act you can imagine. Kids are far more informed about these things at a much younger age, in a much broader scope than I even care to think about. It can warp the mind and often does. Maybe not the root cause but definitely a contributing factor.
Click to expand...

We are about to turn off our DishNetwork and switch to Hulu/Sling/Amazon Fire Stick. Hulu is $7.99 for limited commercials and $11.99 for commercial free. I'll pay $4 for no commercials. Why should I have to wait for my show!

You are very correct though. People aren't willing to wait. Delayed gratification doesn't exist and people wonder why they are unhappy all the time. They get what they want when they want it leaving nothing to look forward to and be excited about. There is nothing left to be excited about because we just go get it now.
 
#2,862
#2,862
VolsnCards5 said:
No he's right. Legally, drunk sex is non-consensual sex, even if the girl is saying yes, pushing for it, whatever.

I'm waiting for the day when a man accuses rape due to him being drunk.
Click to expand...

It's why I posted a few weeks ago I was certain I had committed sexual assault in my life. All it took was a regretful female to speak up and to the op yes a handy or any other sexual act makes one guilty IF charged.

What % of us here wound be guilty as well? My guess it's a hell of lot close to 100% than 0%
 
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#2,863
#2,863
I think part of the problem is that a lot of parents are literally raising 18 year old children. Violent crime has decreased, but since we can't escape the news some people feel like the world has gotten more dangerous, and are sheltering their kids as a result.

And then you take these kids and put them all together on campus and give them free reign and trust them to make good decisions when some of them have never had a thought for themselves because their parents have been deciding for them their whole lives.

I think if more parents would actually have those hard conversations with their kids, and actually let them fail and make bad decisions at some point, they would be more well equipped to be on their own and not let themselves be put in potentially dangerous situations, male or female.

Not to start a weed debate, but I compare some of this to the failure of the DARE programming. It's been shown that it didn't work very well, because of how dangerous it showed marijuana. And then when some people smoked it, they thought it wasn't that bad and then discounted everything else they were taught in that program because they didn't see it as trustworthy anymore.

If a parent paints the whole world has a boogeyman, and only speaks about the dangers of alcohol and parties etc, and then a college student goes out and gets kinda drunk and has a great time, they'll be inclined to ignore everything else their parents taught them
 
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#2,864
#2,864
VolsnCards5 said:
No he's right. Legally, drunk sex is non-consensual sex, even if the girl is saying yes, pushing for it, whatever.

I'm waiting for the day when a man accuses rape due to him being drunk.
Click to expand...

I think that is coming, if it already hasn't. It really could happen to anybody, because of the way that the law is written. But, I am not sure that there is a better way to write the law. It does make a strong case for monogamy :)
 
#2,865
#2,865
VolsnCards5 said:
No he's right. Legally, drunk sex is non-consensual sex, even if the girl is saying yes, pushing for it, whatever.

I'm waiting for the day when a man accuses rape due to him being drunk.
Click to expand...

Not really. Someone basically has to be passed out for them to be unable to consent due to intoxication. It's more like chick from Vandy and less like "I had a couple cosmos, and made bad decisions."
 
#2,866
#2,866
volinexile17 said:
Not really. Someone basically has to be passed out for them to be unable to consent due to intoxication. It's more like chick from Vandy and less like "I had a couple cosmos, and made bad decisions."
Click to expand...

Hard to judge the degree of intoxication after the fact
 
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#2,867
#2,867
Brillo with the grand slam this AM. Well done.

So much of this is reactive. A bad result of a poor decision(s) after the fact, that was clearly not the intent on the front end. Many times PC culture is causing the cry of rape when really it is regret driving remorse for actions taken per law enforcement investigating the claims. That has clearly been the case with some of the allegations against UT football players in the past. It is not the case every time.

Some on here don't want to acknowledge the culture of free sex, open enticement everywhere you turn, over use of substances, etc. as root causes. That's fine, it still doesn't change the truth that they are. They lower inhibitions and moral values. Some say they like the culture that way, until they experience the downside personally or have to deal with a family member or friend that crashes and burns. Nobody is exempt from the downside. It catches up eventually, even with those that have no or reduced moral codes.
 
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#2,868
#2,868
BruinVol said:
A person that is legally intoxicated can't legally consent to sex

Thus every drunken sex act is rape
Click to expand...

Not exactly, but it does make the law scary.

On the other hand, when the victim admits he/she was intoxicated, there is a credibility issue. They can't exactly recall what happened and if they said it was ok, and that is tough for a DA to put in front a jury. Juries don't want to hear that the victim drank too much to recall when someone is facing jail time.
 
#2,869
#2,869
VolGee4 said:
Not exactly, but it does make the law scary.

On the other hand, when the victim admits he/she was intoxicated, there is a credibility issue. They can't exactly recall what happened and if they said it was ok, and that is tough for a DA to put in front a jury. Juries don't want to hear that the victim drank too much to recall when someone is facing jail time.
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On convicting a person I agree


Would you agree though the law suggest the authorities have to fill charges under the circumstances I describe in the op?
 
#2,870
#2,870
volinexile17 said:
Not really. Someone basically has to be passed out for them to be unable to consent due to intoxication. It's more like chick from Vandy and less like "I had a couple cosmos, and made bad decisions."
Click to expand...

I'm talking in a legal sense. Drunk makes consent impossible. That's just law
 
#2,872
#2,872
BruinVol said:
On convicting a person I agree


Would you agree though the law suggest the authorities have to fill charges under the circumstances I describe in the op?
Click to expand...

It's all up to law enforcement, but sometimes they will consult with the DA before making a decision. Other evidence can be taken into consideration as well (as in, physical evidence). I have defended one of these before. I won't go into great detail but that charge was dropped. The defendant pled to something else in which he was charged.
 
#2,873
#2,873
VolsnCards5 said:
I'm talking in a legal sense. Drunk makes consent impossible. That's just law
Click to expand...

I can tell you that a defense attorney has a lot to work with when a victim admits he/she was intoxicated, especially if there is no physical evidence of injury.
 
#2,874
#2,874
VolGee4 said:
It's all up to law enforcement, but sometimes they will consult with the DA before making a decision. Other evidence can be taken into consideration as well (as in, physical evidence). I have defended one of these before. I won't go into great detail but that charge was dropped. The defendant pled to something else in which he was charged.
Click to expand...

Under the context we are discussing here dealing with college athletics the charge and subsequent pleading to a lesser charge causes a great deal of damage. I know schools are working hard to keep things like this from happening but alcohol, sex, and the climate we currently have with the lawsuit we are going to see such things happen more than we expect I am afraid
 
#2,875
#2,875
tn4elvis said:
Some of them just want a golden shower when they do this.:)
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Would that be considered sexual assault?

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