Gun control debate (merged)

#2,126
#2,126
bnhunt said:
GOP standard response: "The sisters were just in the wrong place at the wrong time." And Cletus gets accolades for exercising his 2nd amendment rights as apparently the rights of others don't count.
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Obviously you didn't read the responses.
 
#2,127
#2,127
bnhunt said:
Wholeheartedly disagree. If Cletus opens fire he assumes the risk of what results therefrom. Without holding him and the initial shooter accountable, then we are simply a "Wild West" society where the rules of law don't apply, law enforcement is pointless, and it is simply ever man, woman, and child for themselves.

Flame away righties!
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I'm sure that in some jurisdictions he would be held accountable. But thankfully he would get a jury of 12 and it's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

In the scenario presented yes law enforcement would be pointless as they would arrive after more than just 3 were dead.
 
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#2,128
#2,128
bnhunt said:
Wholeheartedly disagree. If Cletus opens fire he assumes the risk of what results therefrom. Without holding him and the initial shooter accountable, then we are simply a "Wild West" society where the rules of law don't apply, law enforcement is pointless, and it is simply ever man, woman, and child for themselves.

Flame away righties!
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You and LG are the only members I've seen that like to think of defending yourself as having a "Wild West" mentality. LG also thinks everyone reserving the right to defend themselves has a Die Hard mentality. Is that what you believe too? You've spent too much time watching movies?
 
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#2,129
#2,129
tumscalcium said:
You and LG are the only members I've seen that like to think of defending yourself as having a "Wild West" mentality. LG also thinks everyone reserving the right to defend themselves has a Die Hard mentality. Is that what you believe too? You've spent too much time watching movies?
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Him and LG would prefer being killed (along with many others) by Johny Jihad instead of some hick with a gun who saves many.
 
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#2,134
#2,134
SpaceCoastVol said:
OK, thanks. If I am strapped at some sort of liberal event, I will be sure to leave it in the holster so that as many liberals as possible are killed by the offenders and not to endanger my personal freedom. If the bad guys come toward me, I will be sure to wait until I can place my weapon firmly upon their temple before pulling the trigger. Happy? All your friends are dead now. Not just a couple. :cray::cray::cray:
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I am happy that you are not making a decision that could affect the lives of my family and friends. The 2nd amendment arguably gives you the right to bears arms, not to put other people's lives in danger because you think it is warranted. What gives you the right to make that decision for me and my family?
 
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#2,135
#2,135
hndog609 said:
I'm not flaming you here but pointing out an irrefutable fact...if law enforcement is not present when needed their existence is, at least for the duration they remain absent, basically pointless. Somewhat like a flotation device you weren't wearing when thrown overboard...it's not a question of the usefulness of LEO or flotation devices but rather the fact neither is omnipresent.
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I understand the argument, but my guess is that most people on this board would open fire if they felt it was warranted whether le enforcement was present or not. It's the "Wild West" mentality I keep speaking of.
 
#2,136
#2,136
bnhunt said:
I understand the argument, but my guess is that most people on this board would open fire if they felt it was warranted whether le enforcement was present or not. It's the "Wild West" mentality I keep speaking of.
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I'd say your guess is entirely wrong. 99% of people would take cover and hide and only fire if absolutely necessary, it's just human nature. The wild west mentality is rare and MY guess is that those who have it can't get a CC permit.
 
#2,137
#2,137
bnhunt said:
I understand the argument, but my guess is that most people on this board would open fire if they felt it was warranted whether le enforcement was present or not. It's the "Wild West" mentality I keep speaking of.
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I'll concede such people probably exist. I also think the most "wild" assertion on the matter is your concept of how many people actually think that way.

As an aside the whole concept of "wild west" is largely a fictional construct for entertainment purposes.
 
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#2,138
#2,138
bnhunt said:
I am happy that you are not making a decision that could affect the lives of my family and friends. The 2nd amendment arguably gives you the right to bears arms, not to put other people's lives in danger because you think it is warranted. What gives you the right to make that decision for me and my family?
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Is the cc permit holder putting your and your family's lives in more danger than the active shooter? Remember the cc permit holder is only trying to hit one target.
 
#2,139
#2,139
bnhunt said:
I understand the argument, but my guess is that most people on this board would open fire if they felt it was warranted whether le enforcement was present or not. It's the "Wild West" mentality I keep speaking of.
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This just shows again how out of touch you are with gun enthusiasts. Anyone that's taken a course to get a permit (most likely everyone on here that has a gun) knows that you are accountable for EVERY bullet. That is drilled into our heads for 8 hours and all types of scenarios are provided as to why you shouldn't use your weapon. The majority of gun owners are probably the most responsible people in society. If they weren't, then maybe you would have this Wild West scenario that you keep making up.
 
#2,140
#2,140
hndog609 said:
I'll concede such people probably exist. I also think the most "wild" assertion on the matter is your concept of how many people actually think that way.

As an aside the whole concept of "wild west" is largely a fictional construct for entertainment purposes.
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This! I'd venture to guess more people are killed today in gun fights than were in the "wild west" days.
 
#2,141
#2,141
davethevol said:
This just shows again how out of touch you are with gun enthusiasts. Anyone that's taken a course to get a permit (most likely everyone on here that has a gun) knows that you are accountable for EVERY bullet. That is drilled into our heads for 8 hours and all types of scenarios are provided as to why you shouldn't use your weapon. The majority of gun owners are probably the most responsible people in society. If they weren't, then maybe you would have this Wild West scenario that you keep making up.
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I'm sure you meant to say legal carry gun owners. In that case, I'd probably agree, but if we add the illegal criminal element...
 
#2,142
#2,142
ClearwaterVol said:
I'm sure you meant to say legal carry gun owners. In that case, I'd probably agree, but if we add the illegal criminal element...
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But it just goes back to the criminal element has no respect for the laws and will continue to find ways around them. The answer isn't to punish those that abide by the laws.

There are gangs in this country in possession of fully automatic weapons. Do you know how hard it would be for someone like me to get one? So where do they get them? It's not from gun shows or gun dealers.
 
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#2,143
#2,143
davethevol said:
But it just goes back to the criminal element has no respect for the laws and will continue to find ways around them. The answer isn't to punish those that abide by the laws.

There are gangs in this country in possession of fully automatic weapons. Do you know how hard it would be for someone like me to get one? So where do they get them? It's not from gun shows or gun dealers.
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Not that hard if you know the right guy.. :wink2:
 
#2,144
#2,144
bnhunt said:
Wholeheartedly disagree. If Cletus opens fire he assumes the risk of what results therefrom. Without holding him and the initial shooter accountable, then we are simply a "Wild West" society where the rules of law don't apply, law enforcement is pointless, and it is simply ever man, woman, and child for themselves.

Flame away righties!
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That's the thing, If there is no Law Enforcement around when the Shooting takes place, the only person who can reasonably protect yourself is....yourself. For all intents and purposes, it is every person for themselves. If the Police are there and they're the one that shoots and those same three people get caught in the crossfire, do they get charged and indicted? The only difference between a police officer and a CCW permit holder is a shiny badge and a utility belt.
 
#2,145
#2,145
hog88 said:
Is the cc permit holder putting your and your family's lives in more danger than the active shooter? Remember the cc permit holder is only trying to hit one target.
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Keyword "trying". The more bullets flying around the more risk there is. Also, what gun enthusiasts refuse to admit is that citizens w/ guns often escalate the situation as a criminal who feels threatened by someone else w/ a weapon is often more likely to start opening fire rather than just use it as a threat when no one else is firing at them. Doesn't fit into most people's narratives on this board though, so it's generally ignored.
 
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#2,146
#2,146
bnhunt said:
Keyword "trying". The more bullets flying around the more risk there is. Also, what gun enthusiasts refuse to admit is that citizens w/ guns often escalate the situation as a criminal who feels threatened by someone else w/ a weapon is often more likely to start opening fire rather than just use it as a threat when no one else is firing at them. Doesn't fit into most people's narratives on this board though, so it's generally ignored.
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I bet you feel protected in a gun-free zone with one exit and an active shooter present.

Go ahead and ask those that have been in that situation.
Go ahead. I'll be waiting for the response.

*ask. Dur
 
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#2,147
#2,147
bnhunt said:
Keyword "trying". The more bullets flying around the more risk there is. Also, what gun enthusiasts refuse to admit is that citizens w/ guns often escalate the situation as a criminal who feels threatened by someone else w/ a weapon is often more likely to start opening fire rather than just use it as a threat when no one else is firing at them. Doesn't fit into most people's narratives on this board though, so it's generally ignored.
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What color is the sky in your world?
 
#2,150
#2,150
bnhunt said:
Keyword "trying". The more bullets flying around the more risk there is. Also, what gun enthusiasts refuse to admit is that citizens w/ guns often escalate the situation as a criminal who feels threatened by someone else w/ a weapon is often more likely to start opening fire rather than just use it as a threat when no one else is firing at them. Doesn't fit into most people's narratives on this board though, so it's generally ignored.
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I can't honestly imagine any feeling "more safe" when just the criminal has a gun and you're a sitting duck. That can't be common sense, just being more dedicated to being a liberal than thinking smart.
 
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