2016 Election

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#5,701
#5,701
volinbham said:
Aces
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If uneducated workers are taking your job, get an education and/or work harder. I have no sympathy for them in that respect. I don't support illegal immigration, but I'd have no problem accepting even unskilled immigrants. Competition in the work force isn't a bad thing.
 
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#5,702
#5,702
Vol8188 said:
Of course he does. He plans to say whatever he needs to say to get elected.

Within the past 6 months he's stated that he wants to deport all illegals, and that he also supports amnesty after he builds his fence. So he speaks out of both sides and says whatever is necessary at the time to pander to the given audience. That's the plan.
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Just like every other candidate.
 
#5,703
#5,703
Vol8188 said:
If uneducated workers are taking your job, get an education and/or work harder. I have no sympathy for them in that respect. I don't support illegal immigration, but I'd have no problem accepting even unskilled immigrants. Competition in the work force isn't a bad thing.
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That wasn't his point.
 
#5,704
#5,704
volinbham said:
That wasn't his point.
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"No immigrant is competing for your job". The point seemed to be that the "elite" the author is referring to don't understand the issues illegal immigration creates. One of the issues he pointed to was losing your job.
 
#5,705
#5,705
Vol8188 said:
"No immigrant is competing for your job". The point seemed to be that the "elite" the author is referring to don't understand the issues illegal immigration creates. One of the issues he pointed to was losing your job.
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If journalists, bankers and lawyers were loosing jobs to illegals the problem would already be fixed.
 
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#5,710
#5,710
Vol8188 said:
If uneducated workers are taking your job, get an education and/or work harder. I have no sympathy for them in that respect. I don't support illegal immigration, but I'd have no problem accepting even unskilled immigrants. Competition in the work force isn't a bad thing.
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How do you feel about vouchers for parents to send kids to private schools?
 
#5,711
#5,711
SpaceCoastVol said:
How do you feel about vouchers for parents to send kids to private schools?
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Idk, honestly. My only real issue with it is that public schools would then only get the kids that private schools don't want (special education services and health issues that the private schools aren't equipped to handle).

Due to a lower demand and lower funding the number of public schools would decrease and the concentration and class sizes for the special needs students would shoot up drastically. They would also get a lower quality teacher, because very few would want to put up with that kind of clientele.

But honestly, the current inclusion model for special needs students is a disservice to the higher level students in those classes and actually holds them back in many ways. I'm also of the opinion that we shouldn't be educating all people and that this view that education is a right is part of the issue. For example alternative schools shouldn't exist. If you can't do what's asked of you; then tax payer money shouldn't be wasted educating you. Because only those willing to learn can be taught.
 
#5,712
#5,712
Vol8188 said:
Idk, honestly. My only real issue with it is that public schools would then only get the kids that private schools don't want (special education services and health issues that the private schools aren't equipped to handle).

Due to a lower demand and lower funding the number of public schools would decrease and the concentration and class sizes for the special needs students would shoot up drastically. They would also get a lower quality teacher, because very few would want to put up with that kind of clientele.

But honestly, the current inclusion model for special needs students is a disservice to the higher level students in those classes and actually holds them back in many ways. I'm also of the opinion that we shouldn't be educating all people and that this view that education is a right is part of the issue. For example alternative schools shouldn't exist. If you can't do what's asked of you; then tax payer money shouldn't be wasted educating you. Because only those willing to learn can be taught.
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I agree with your assessment of public schools in a voucher world. I think that alternative schools are fine because keeping them there is better than running the streets.

As far as education in general, I think that there should be greater emphasis on trade schools in lieu of HS. Not everybody needs college prep. Many kids would be better served going to auto mechanics school or cosmetology school. They wouldn't have a traditional HS diploma, but they would have a marketable skill.

As for the disabled, many special ed kids are parked in public schools for the baby sitting services. Kids that can't do anything. Teachers literally spend their day changing diapers and feeding "kids" that might be as old as 20. For those, we need to figure out how to lower the cost. It doesn't take someone with a teaching degree and in many instances a masters be a care giver. As for ones that can be educated, provide an education that is aimed at self sufficiency if possible and not at some special ed diploma which is essentially worthless.

Just my .02
 
#5,713
#5,713
I struggle with that last part. The kids there up to 20 who you're correct, in many cases are being babysat. The reason I like them being there, is because this is the best their life will ever be. They will never have true peers and the sense of belonging and fitting in again in their lives.

For the alternative schools: they're spending their days hanging with the same kids they'd be running the streets with. Shut em down and use the money to hire better teachers in the other schools.

And we are on the same page with trade schools. Many of those same degrees offered by trade schools and community colleges could be earned while in high school.

I think the future of education is more online based so that it can be more individualized. Students will stay with kids their age (no one would get held back) but everyone would work on things at their given level. So you may be 16 and working on 5th grade math. Meanwhile other 16 year olds www taking trig and earning credit through the local community college. The key is building relations with local trade schools and community colleges to increase to availability of online curriculum

Edit: one last note. We now call the most severe kids, life skills students. And their goal is to literally learn how to take care of themselves and live as independently as possible. I'm a major support of those classes and attend their prom and other events annually. I had a relative through marriage who had Down's syndrome. She loved going to school because she was an equal amongst her peers. She had a boyfriend. She had friends. It was great for her. She'll never experience that again.
 
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#5,714
#5,714
Vol8188 said:
I struggle with that last part. The kids there up to 20 who you're correct, in many cases are being babysat. The reason I like them being there, is because this is the best their life will ever be. They will never have true peers and the sense of belonging and fitting in again in their lives.

For the alternative schools: they're spending their days hanging with the same kids they'd be running the streets with. Shut em down and use the money to hire better teachers in the other schools.

And we are on the same page with trade schools. Many of those same degrees offered by trade schools and community colleges could be earned while in high school.

I think the future of education is more online based so that it can be more individualized. Students will stay with kids their age (no one would get held back) but everyone would work on things at their given level. So you may be 16 and working on 5th grade math. Meanwhile other 16 year olds www taking trig and earning credit through the local community college. The key is building relations with local trade schools and community colleges to increase to availability of online curriculum

Edit: one last note. We now call the most severe kids, life skills students. And their goal is to literally learn how to take care of themselves and live as independently as possible. I'm a major support of those classes and attend their prom and other events annually. I had a relative through marriage who had Down's syndrome. She loved going to school because she was an equal amongst her peers. She had a boyfriend. She had friends. It was great for her. She'll never experience that again.
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The kids which I am addressing in your first paragraph are the ones that cannot go to a regular school. They simply are housed in what is called a school and "taught" by teachers. My mother used to work at Fort Sanders School in Knoxville and while she was there it changed from severely disabled kids that could be taught limited life skills to extremely disabled kids that were not capable of any learning. I think that those kids and the tax rolls would be well served by a day care environment. There is no need to pay someone with advanced degrees to provide an "education."
 
#5,715
#5,715
Vol8188 said:
If uneducated workers are taking your job, get an education and/or work harder. I have no sympathy for them in that respect. I don't support illegal immigration, but I'd have no problem accepting even unskilled immigrants. Competition in the work force isn't a bad thing.
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With all due respect, you're a teacher and should probably discuss something other than competition in the workforce.
 
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#5,717
#5,717
Vol8188 said:
Oooooooooooooo
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He's right actually. Teachers'
unions have been bending the taxpayers over for years and in the process creating a defacto monopoly. I was actually surprised at your answer being somewhat pro voucher. Maybe there is some hope for you after all.
 
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#5,719
#5,719
SpaceCoastVol said:
He's right actually. Teachers'
unions have been bending the taxpayers over for years and in the process creating a defacto monopoly. I was actually surprised at your answer being somewhat pro voucher. Maybe there is some hope for you after all.
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Lol what state do you live in? Outside of Illinois, Hawaii, and a few other states the teachers union have little power
 
#5,721
#5,721
Vol8188 said:
Probably because pay is so poor.
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Is it really that poor? What does it come out to per hour? My HS teachers showed up at 7:30 (if that) and left by 3:30. Add a little prepping at home but then account for 3 months off + in kind pay....

When I was in college the average starting teacher was making more per hour than the average starting econ major* in the open market, and that's a good degree.

*they tend to go be donkeys at financial firms for 70 hour/week x 5 years
 
#5,722
#5,722
n_huffhines said:
Is it really that poor? What does it come out to per hour? My HS teachers showed up at 7:30 (if that) and left by 3:30. Add a little prepping at home but then account for 3 months off + in kind pay....

When I was in college the average starting teacher was making more per hour than the average starting econ major* in the open market, and that's a good degree.

*they tend to go be donkeys at financial firms for 70 hour/week x 5 years
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This^^
 
#5,723
#5,723
n_huffhines said:
Is it really that poor? What does it come out to per hour? My HS teachers showed up at 7:30 (if that) and left by 3:30. Add a little prepping at home but then account for 3 months off + in kind pay....

When I was in college the average starting teacher was making more per hour than the average starting econ major in the open market, and that's a good degree.
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We do work 8 hour days. We are required to be there 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after school to supervise kids. We actually only get 2 months off. We begin about 2 weeks before start back, and end about 2 weeks after they're done.

As far as the pay, I'll break it down in the next post.
 
#5,724
#5,724
n_huffhines said:
Is it really that poor? What does it come out to per hour? My HS teachers showed up at 7:30 (if that) and left by 3:30. Add a little prepping at home but then account for 3 months off + in kind pay....

When I was in college the average starting teacher was making more per hour than the average starting econ major* in the open market, and that's a good degree.

*they tend to go be donkeys at financial firms for 70 hour/week x 5 years
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I make 35,000 a year. As do all NC teachers for their first 5 years in NC.

We work 10 months a year. We are required to be at school 8 hours a day (although to be effective you have to put more time than that into it). And yes I know some teachers do put in minimum time and effort, and I'm not defending them.

If you divide out 35,000 by 10 months by 4 weeks a month by 40 hours you make 875 a week or 21.875 an hour.

If you multiply it out over 12 months you'd get 42k. The starting salary isn't bad.

The issue is that over a career, Nc teachers will only receive 4 raises. Those raises are given twice a decade (every 5 years). Topping out at 50k (equivalent to a 60k salary working 12 months a year).

That's an employee with 30 years experience and a masters degree. They'd only make 50k or a 12 month 60k equivalent. 60k is the starting salary for most people with a masters degree, not the end salary.

Also, my student growth was top 90 out of over 59k teachers in NC. Yet I'm still making the minimum 35,000k a year and will continue to do so until my 6th year as a teacher.
 
#5,725
#5,725
n_huffhines said:
Is it really that poor? What does it come out to per hour? My HS teachers showed up at 7:30 (if that) and left by 3:30. Add a little prepping at home but then account for 3 months off + in kind pay....

When I was in college the average starting teacher was making more per hour than the average starting econ major* in the open market, and that's a good degree.

*they tend to go be donkeys at financial firms for 70 hour/week x 5 years
Click to expand...

Also when you're talking about teacher hours:

Taking tickets at athletic events, prom, open houses, these are all things done on top of our typical work day with no extra compensation, and they're normally not optional.
 
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