Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#176
#176
Sandvol said:
Yes. He learned it somewhere. Is it preposterous to assume criminals sit around talking about how to get away with crimes?
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I believe it is preposterous for a borderline retarded person to apply the techniques involved in such an expertly done clean up of evidence. Cleaning up one type of blood in the garage, but leaving deer blood. Cleaning the floors and all the clutter expertly while leaving layers and layers of dust and grime on the ground. Cleaning out the cracks of the garage expertly such that there is no trace of TH blood anywhere. It is absolutely ridiculous that a mentally deficient person could learn these techniques in prison and then apply them expertly on his first attempt.
 
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#178
#178
SamRebel35 said:
Such as?
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Dassey said he saw Avery put Halbach’s key in Avery’s bedroom dresser. He also said they burned the bed sheets to eliminate blood evidence. He also knew that Halbach was put in the back of the vehicle matching the location of her blood evidence. And, he told the police about Avery lifting the hood matching the touch DNA evidence found there.
 
#179
#179
SamRebel35 said:
I believe it is preposterous for a borderline retarded person to apply the techniques involved in such an expertly done clean up of evidence. Cleaning up one type of blood in the garage, but leaving deer blood. Cleaning the floors and all the clutter expertly while leaving layers and layers of dust and grime on the ground. Cleaning out the cracks of the garage expertly such that there is no trace of TH blood anywhere. It is absolutely ridiculous that a mentally deficient person could learn these techniques in prison and then apply them expertly on his first attempt.
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Dassey was mentally deficient. Avery wasn't a real bright person of course but plenty capable of cleaning up blood evidence. And, again I don't think there was a lot. He strangled her to death according to Dassey.
 
#180
#180
Sandvol said:
Dassey talked about bleach stains on his jeans they used to clean the garage floor. Bleach will completely oxidize blood. I think he did kill her in the house. Also, fingerprints are not always that easy to find. Ask any investigator. You have to have the right kind of surface. But, I do think he cleaned up quite a bit. He learned a lot about cleaning up crimes spending 18 years in prison.
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No damn way he cleaned his mattress and carpet to the point no blood could be found. Especially considering how disorganized and messy his trailer was. Same goes for the garage, there was **** stacked everywhere but this guy who is borderline retarded is able to clean the garage and its contents so that not 1 drop of blood splatter can be found. No blood splatter anywhere even after a .22 round passed through her skull.
 
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#181
#181
Sandvol said:
Dassey was mentally deficient. Avery wasn't a real bright person of course but plenty capable of cleaning up blood evidence. And, again I don't think there was a lot. He strangled her to death according to Dassey.
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I think Dassey's IQ is actually a couple of points higher than Avery's.
 
#182
#182
Sandvol said:
Dassey was mentally deficient. Avery wasn't a real bright person of course but plenty capable of cleaning up blood evidence. And, again I don't think there was a lot. He strangled her to death according to Dassey.
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Also according to Dassey, Avery stabbed her in the gut, Dassey slit her throat, and Avery shot her in the head. There is only physical evidence of the last in that list.
 
#183
#183
hog88 said:
No damn way he cleaned his mattress and carpet to the point no blood could be found. Especially considering how disorganized and messy his trailer was. Same goes for the garage, there was **** stacked everywhere but this guy who is borderline retarded is able to clean the garage and its contents so that not 1 drop of blood splatter can be found. No blood splatter anywhere even after a .22 round passed through her skull.
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What if he shot her long after she was dead? What if more than six hours had passed? What if it was just part of the mutilation process? How much spatter would there be from the 22?
 
#184
#184
bamawriter said:
Also according to Dassey, Avery stabbed her in the gut, Dassey slit her throat, and Avery shot her in the head. There is only physical evidence of the last in that list.
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True, and he amended where he said he stabbed her. He said it was closer to the rib section.
 
#187
#187
The deer blood pretty much proves the garage wasnt cleaned down with bleach.Brendans confession was what the 3rd time the detectives drilled him for hours?What do you think they talked about the other times?He was just going along with whatever they said.What did you do to her head?Cut her hair lol wtf the thats the only thing he could think of.He couldnt watch a cat get killed but can slash a womans throat.So many things wrong with that confession idk how someone can believe it.Who shot her?He did,why didnt you tell us that?I forgot lmao.
 
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#188
#188
Sandvol said:
What if he shot her long after she was dead? What if more than six hours had passed? What if it was just part of the mutilation process? How much spatter would there be from the 22?
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Since the bullet went through the skull, I would expect a fairly large exit wound with brain matter projected further than the 3x3 space that was cleaned with bleach. It would also be nice to find hair, fibers, sweat DNA, or really anything that would indicate she ever stepped foot in the garage or the trailer.
 
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#189
#189
Sandvol said:
What if he shot her long after she was dead? What if more than six hours had passed? What if it was just part of the mutilation process? How much spatter would there be from the 22?
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A lot, there would have been pieces of skull, brain tissue, scalp and hair along with blood. Have you ever killed a squirrel, groundhog or anything with a .22?
 
#190
#190
red butler said:
He also said he cut off her hair an set it on the dresser. Zero evidence of that either.
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I am loathe to sit here and list all of the immutable facts of this case because it would be so time consuming. And, right now I just don't have any more time. You're a smart guy. Please do it. For example, Steve Avery called Teresa Halbach to get her to his home. (fact) She drove to his home. (fact). Many witnesses placed her at his home. (fact) She disappeared after going to Avery's home.(fact). And, continue listing facts along with the evidence (facts). Police planting evidence isn't a fact. Someone else could have done it isn't a fact. Police could have killed her isn't a fact. Disregard anything Dassey confessed. Just the facts of the case make Avery the killer.
 
#191
#191
red butler said:
Since the bullet went through the skull, I would expect a fairly large exit wound with brain matter projected further than the 3x3 space that was cleaned with bleach. It would also be nice to find hair, fibers, sweat DNA, or really anything that would indicate she ever stepped foot in the garage or the trailer.
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uh, the prosecution already did that with the auto trader magazine and receipt.
 
#192
#192
Sandvol said:
I am loathe to sit here and list all of the immutable facts of this case because it would be so time consuming. And, right now I just don't have any more time. You're a smart guy. Please do it. For example, Steve Avery called Teresa Halbach to get her to his home. (fact) She drove to his home. (fact). Many witnesses placed her at his home. (fact) She disappeared after going to Avery's home.(fact). And, continue listing facts along with the evidence (facts). Police planting evidence isn't a fact. Someone else could have done it isn't a fact. Police could have killed her isn't a fact. Disregard anything Dassey confessed. Just the facts of the case make Avery the killer.
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Sand I would hate to be on trial with you on the jury.
 
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#193
#193
hog88 said:
A lot, there would have been pieces of skull, brain tissue, scalp and hair along with blood. Have you ever killed a squirrel, groundhog or anything with a .22?
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I was addressing your point about blood spatter. After rigor mortis and lividity occur I doubt very little spatter if shot with a 22 in the head. Also, from a 22 very little scalp and brain tissue and it could have been cleaned up and or lost in the clutter of the garage. Listen, no more cases have the evidence laid out perfectly. You can what if this to death. Someone killed her and only Avery makes any sense.
 
#196
#196
Sandvol said:
I was addressing your point about blood spatter. After rigor mortis and lividity occur I doubt very little spatter if shot with a 22 in the head. Also, from a 22 very little scalp and brain tissue and it could have been cleaned up and or lost in the clutter of the garage. Listen, no more cases have the evidence laid out perfectly. You can what if this to death. Someone killed her and only Avery makes any sense.
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But Scott Tadych timed the fire that ultimately consumed her corpse as earlier than that. So your assumption of lividity doesn't fit the timeline.
 
#198
#198
Sandvol said:
Tadych didn't testify as to how long the fire burned did he?
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No. But you're making assumptions about facts not in evidence. If he was home and saw the fire, even if her corpse wasn't in it yet, why didn't he hear the gunshots that they inflicted post mortem? 22s are pretty loud.

More importantly, why would they carry a still living victim to the garage, but put her in her vehicle after the killing only to transport her basically the same distance to the fire pit? Carrying a seriously wounded person is a heck of a lot harder than carrying a corpse.
 
#199
#199
Sandvol said:
I was addressing your point about blood spatter. After rigor mortis and lividity occur I doubt very little spatter if shot with a 22 in the head. Also, from a 22 very little scalp and brain tissue and it could have been cleaned up and or lost in the clutter of the garage. Listen, no more cases have the evidence laid out perfectly. You can what if this to death. Someone killed her and only Avery makes any sense.
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Yet the deer blood miraculously survived the cleaning.

I grant you that it makes sense that Avery killed her and he very well may be guilty but that in no ****ing way was proven in court.
 
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