Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#101
#101
Hoosier_Vol said:
Okay after watching the entire series AND doing some online research about the case and some facts both pro & con that wasn't stated in the movie about the situation and Steven here is my opinion on it all. First off if you haven't watched this show then you REALLY should because it's as thought provoking and interesting as you can get and it's REAL life, not a movie.

There is NO DOUBT that the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Dept is dirty and guilty of federal offenses in BOTH cases. At least Gene Kusche,Tom Kocourek,James Lenk,Andrew Colborn and Kenneth Peterson are anyways. There is also some serious issues with the Wisconsin Division of Criminal Investigation. I have no doubt that they planted evidence in the case (blood,the key and other). I don't believe any of the officers was directly involved in murdering Teresa Halbach but they did do everything to force the investigation to ONLY focus on Steven due to the past and his lawsuit. When Andrew Colborn calls in Teresa's license plate to dispatch that is incredibly ironic and fishy. There are a few parts I honestly can't put together such as the burning of the body. I believe she was killed somewhere besides the Avery property clearly and the vehichle and bones where planted on the Avery property because the killer knew he would be the first and possibly only suspect. For the killer(s) to know she was also going to be at the Averys that day meant she was seen there or she told the killer she would be there that day. That leads me to my list of the two most likely suspects in my opinion. Her ex boyfriend who some how hacked her voice mail and appears to have deleted some of her voice mails, and Scott Tadych (Brendan Dassey's step dad). From the point she went missing the ex boyfriend seemed very suspicious to me between her co worker saying she kept receiving calls from someone she didn't want to talk too, the weird way he hacked her voice mail and then messages are deleted to just how he conducted the searches and he just happens to send the lady who finds her car on Averys property that way. My other suspect Scott Tadych seemed odd the whole series. Between his basically telling Brendan to plead guilty and its also pretty clear he didn't like Steven or his family. Maybe he killed her and Brendan saw it and that's why he tried to originally blame Steven to protect his step dad or he was scared of his step dad? If Scott did do it it would be easy to plant the car and bones on the property.

I could go on and on for days about this series and the police,lawyers,investigation errors and the many possible theory's. One thing I have to say is Brendan's first lawyer Len Kachinsky might be the biggest douche in Wisconsin. You could tell from the start he was a joke and all he was worried about was smiling for the press. The crap him and his investigator pulled on Brendan should have been enough to land both of them in prison.
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Steve Avery and Brendan Dassey committed the murder. They are just two dumb people. Dassey's role was probably minor in that he helped get rid of the body. Think his sentence was way too severe. Heavily manipulated by his uncle. There are no other suspects because no one else had the means to do it. The problem with the Manitowoc County Sherriff's Department is they were ordered to stay away by the Judge and did not comply so brought a conflict of interest into the case. Also, they are very incompetent police up there because it took them months to find the key and the bullet. There was a lot left out of the documentary and Kraft's theory was bogus. If Avery had any intelligence at all he probably could have gotten away with it. Most criminals are really stupid.
 
#102
#102
It was such a bizarre case because of the previous wrongful conviction and the fact that this camera crew was following him around but he had the audacity to do it. Or, the stupidity is a more apt description.
 
#103
#103
Finally finished the whole thing. I still think it might of been Avery after reading some of the evidence left out. However, I am convinced the police are corrupt and likely planted additional evidence in effort to boost the case against Avery. I also don't think they proved beyond a reasonable doubt he did it. As far as Dassey I'm not do convinced that he even had any part in it. His original lawyer should of been enough to cause a mistrial. There was literally no scientific evidence he was apart of it. Just a coerced confession of his. My biggest take away is: I hope I never get accused of anything in Wisconsin.
 
#104
#104
creekerballer said:
Finally finished the whole thing. I still think it might of been Avery after reading some of the evidence left out. However, I am convinced the police are corrupt and likely planted additional evidence in effort to boost the case against Avery. I also don't think they proved beyond a reasonable doubt he did it. As far as Dassey I'm not do convinced that he even had any part in it. His original lawyer should of been enough to cause a mistrial. There was literally no scientific evidence he was apart of it. Just a coerced confession of his. My biggest take away is: I hope I never get accused of anything in Wisconsin.
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Hopefully you know that you can have a lawyer present at all times and if you don't know what to say or not to say then you'd "plead the 5th". Those 3 words would have made Dassey a free man right now, but the only thing that family knows how to say is yeah, yeah, and yeah.
 
#105
#105
Stoked said:
Hopefully you know that you can have a lawyer present at all times and if you don't know what to say or not to say then you'd "plead the 5th". Those 3 words would have made Dassey a free man right now, but the only thing that family knows how to say is yeah, yeah, and yeah.
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yeah
 
#109
#109
Sandvol said:
Steve Avery and Brendan Dassey committed the murder. They are just two dumb people. Dassey's role was probably minor in that he helped get rid of the body. Think his sentence was way too severe. Heavily manipulated by his uncle. There are no other suspects because no one else had the means to do it. The problem with the Manitowoc County Sherriff's Department is they were ordered to stay away by the Judge and did not comply so brought a conflict of interest into the case. Also, they are very incompetent police up there because it took them months to find the key and the bullet. There was a lot left out of the documentary and Kraft's theory was bogus. If Avery had any intelligence at all he probably could have gotten away with it. Most criminals are really stupid.
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I wish I was convinced he was guilty. What evidence led you to believe that no one else had the means to do it? Bobby Dassey, who perjured himself on the stand, had access to the property and was hunting by himself. Scott Tradych doesn't have a solid alibi either. Steven Avery's brothers have a worse criminal background than he does. What rules them out?
 
#110
#110
red butler said:
I wish I was convinced he was guilty. What evidence led you to believe that no one else had the means to do it? Bobby Dassey, who perjured himself on the stand, had access to the property and was hunting by himself. Scott Tradych doesn't have a solid alibi either. Steven Avery's brothers have a worse criminal background than he does. What rules them out?
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Whenever you look at a case like this it has to be the most plausible explanation. Whose DNA was found on the Toyota? Who was the last person seen with her and corroborated by numerous witnesses? Who called her to the residence? Whose back yard were the bones in? Whose bullet had her DNA on it? Who was seen burning a bonfire that night and placed himself at the bonfire and admitted he was doing a bonfire? Who corroborated he was doing a bonfire? Whose DNA was on the key? Whose DNA was on the hood latch? Who did Brandon Dassey say killed her? Who made several phone calls to her that day? Whose home was the Auto Trader and receipt found in? I can tell you the answers to any of those questions are not Bobby Dassey and Steve Tradych. In cases like these like the Knox case you can bring up all kinds of scenarios. Only one is plausible. This is a slam dunk case.
 
#111
#111
Sandvol said:
Whenever you look at a case like this it has to be the most plausible explanation. Whose DNA was found on the Toyota? Who was the last person seen with her and corroborated by numerous witnesses? Who called her to the residence? Whose back yard were the bones in? Whose bullet had her DNA on it? Who was seen burning a bonfire that night and placed himself at the bonfire and admitted he was doing a bonfire? Who corroborated he was doing a bonfire? Whose DNA was on the key? Whose DNA was on the hood latch? Who did Brandon Dassey say killed her? Who made several phone calls to her that day? Whose home was the Auto Trader and receipt found in? I can tell you the answers to any of those questions are not Bobby Dassey and Steve Tradych. In cases like these like the Knox case you can bring up all kinds of scenarios. Only one is plausible. This is a slam dunk case.
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Oh God. You've got to be trolling now. Bringing up your crazy Amanda Knox paranoia again? Dude, you're all by yourself out there in left field.
 
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#112
#112
Stoked said:
Hopefully you know that you can have a lawyer present at all times and if you don't know what to say or not to say then you'd "plead the 5th". Those 3 words would have made Dassey a free man right now, but the only thing that family knows how to say is yeah, yeah, and yeah.
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#113
#113
SamRebel35 said:
Oh God. You've got to be trolling now. Bringing up your crazy Amanda Knox paranoia again? Dude, you're all by yourself out there in left field.
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Do you have any deductive reasoning ability at all? You come on here, throw hand grenades and offer absolutely nothing? You repeat media articles but show no ability yourself to think critically? All police are conspirators who work to imprison innocent people. The Knox case and the Avery case are very similar. Both slam dunk cases. But here you are, no Avery has been railroaded by corrupt police. Sound familiar? You really aren't even intelligent enough to respond to. You're like a gnat.
 
#114
#114
Sandvol said:
Do you have any deductive reasoning ability at all? You come on here, throw hand grenades and offer absolutely nothing? You repeat media articles but show no ability yourself to think critically? All police are conspirators who work to imprison innocent people. The Knox case and the Avery case are very similar. Both slam dunk cases. But here you are, no Avery has been railroaded by corrupt police. Sound familiar? You really aren't even intelligent enough to respond to. You're like a gnat.
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You don't think the police were corrupt in this case? You don't think they planted evidence? Dude, you're trollin'.
 
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#115
#115
creekerballer said:
Finally finished the whole thing. I still think it might of been Avery after reading some of the evidence left out. However, I am convinced the police are corrupt and likely planted additional evidence in effort to boost the case against Avery. I also don't think they proved beyond a reasonable doubt he did it. As far as Dassey I'm not do convinced that he even had any part in it. His original lawyer should of been enough to cause a mistrial. There was literally no scientific evidence he was apart of it. Just a coerced confession of his. My biggest take away is: I hope I never get accused of anything in Wisconsin.
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One of the things that infuriated me most about the documentary was when prosecutor Kratz gave the press conference detailing Brendan Dassey's confession. It was all over national media and definitely tainted the jury pool. It was borderline prosecutorial misconduct. In the end, the confession was most likely coerced because there isn't a single shred of physical evidence to back it up.

The fact that he has now presented a list of evidence that was left out of the documentary and the media is parroting it without checking the facts is equally appalling. Here's some of the items the media is running with that I believe are easily disputed.

Halbach was scared of Avery and didn't want to go to his property. Kratz says Avery gave a fake name to trick her into coming. Fact- Avery gave his sister's name because he was selling her car. Their address is on Avery road and halbach called in to tell her boss she was going to the Avery's. Halbach's friend testified that there was a time Avery came to the door in a towel, but they both kind of laughed it off. There certainly isn't any evidence that Halbach was frightened by Avery.

Kratz points to sweat DNA under the hood. The forensic tech admitted in testimony that he didn't change his gloves before opening the hood. He could have easily transferred the DNA.

Kratz embellished that Avery owned leg irons. Truth- Avery owned kinky handcuffs like the play handcuffs you can by at an adult shop. Halbach's DNA wasn't on the "leg irons"
 
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#117
#117
red butler said:
One of the things that infuriated me most about the documentary was when prosecutor Kratz gave the press conference detailing Brendan Dassey's confession. It was all over national media and definitely tainted the jury pool. It was borderline prosecutorial misconduct. In the end, the confession was most likely coerced because there isn't a single shred of physical evidence to back it up.
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The documentary shows some of his confessions were probably coerced but if you read the case transcripts you'll see that Brendan went back and forth and the detectives were getting frustrated with him. However, he talks about things in great detail that only someone who knew specifics of the crime would know. Read his actual confession that much of what the trial centered on and not what the documentary showed. The detectives didn't coerce these things. I can attach a copy if you like.
The fact that he has now presented a list of evidence that was left out of the documentary and the media is parroting it without checking the facts is equally appalling. Here's some of the items the media is running with that I believe are easily disputed.

Halbach was scared of Avery and didn't want to go to his property. Kratz says Avery gave a fake name to trick her into coming. Fact- Avery gave his sister's name because he was selling her car. Their address is on Avery road and halbach called in to tell her boss she was going to the Avery's. Halbach's friend testified that there was a time Avery came to the door in a towel, but they both kind of laughed it off. There certainly isn't any evidence that Halbach was frightened by Avery.
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Yes, and she begged her boss not to send her. Why would he try to disguise that it was him by using the *67 feature?

Kratz points to sweat DNA under the hood. The forensic tech admitted in testimony that he didn't change his gloves before opening the hood. He could have easily transferred the DNA.
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That was touch DNA from the hood latch. The likelihood of secondary or tertiary transfer of touch DNA is almost impossible. Also, Brendan is the one who in great detail told the police that Steve lifted the hood. That is why they searched for DNA there.

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Kratz embellished that Avery owned leg irons. Truth- Avery owned kinky handcuffs like the play handcuffs you can by at an adult shop. Halbach's DNA wasn't on the "leg irons"
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The whole bedroom scenario was poorly done and a red herring by Kratz. He's an idiot. But Avery still murdered her.
 
#118
#118
There was also his touch DNA on the key and his blood and DNA on the ignition switch of the Toyota and he had a cut on his right hand. Coincidental?
 
#119
#119
Sandvol said:
Yes, and she begged her boss not to send her. Why would he try to disguise that it was him by using the *67 feature?
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Do you have proof that she begged her boss not to send her, or is this more of Kratz embellishing?

That was touch DNA from the hood latch. The likelihood of secondary or tertiary transfer of touch DNA is almost impossible. Also, Brendan is the one who in great detail told the police that Steve lifted the hood. That is why they searched for DNA there.
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I'm pretty sure the prosecution witness testified that it was consistent with a secondary transfer.
 
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#121
#121
T o make it simple i just look at motive.Who had it?A man about to get millions or cops that were getting sued and already proven they where out to get SA.
 
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#122
#122
Avery was about to get millions.. the county's insurance wasn't going to cover it. That would have crippled the county. No telling how many people would have been laid off. Just seems too convenient for the county.
 
#123
#123
rush1228 said:
T o make it simple i just look at motive.Who had it?A man about to get millions or cops that were getting sued and already proven they where out to get SA.
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The only motive he could have had would have been that he sexually assaulted her and didn't want to get caught (by her telling) so he killed her. But I don't believe he did that. He was about to be filthy rich. He would have owned that county, literally.
 
#124
#124
Sandvol said:
There was also his touch DNA on the key and his blood and DNA on the ignition switch of the Toyota and he had a cut on his right hand. Coincidental?
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What doesn't add up is that he was able to completely clean ALL of her DNA and blood from his house and garage which is no small feat. He removed ALL of his fingerprints from her car and key yet was so sloppy he left his blood in the car and DNA on the key.
 
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