2016 Election

[n_huffhines]

OK, he championed Snowden, failed to label it, then later gave it a label that demonizes Snowden. Not a flip-flopper.

Are you sure it's not your bias that is showing?

 

[carlos86]

OK, he championed Snowden, failed to label it, then later gave it a label that demonizes Snowden. Not a flip-flopper.

Are you sure it's not your bias that is showing?

He is indeed a flip-flopper

Things Cruz has flip-flopped on:

• Marijuana

• Same-Sex Marriage

• immigration

• Birthright Citizenship

• Syria

• Trade

• Ethanol

• Funding the Crop Insurance Program

• Mass Deportation

• H-1B Visas

 

[Vol8188]

Your bias is showing. There are other issues that would be more relevant to Cruz "flip-flopping", but this one is rather weak. If like most people (including your guy Rand), you felt that the US had/has gone too far with bulk data collection, but you also believe that what Snowden did was treason... then you should label yourself and most people in this forum as flip-floppers as well. Just go back and read some of the posts in the Snowden thread when the news first broke.

Is that politofact? Because they've ruled that Cruz is lying on approximately 70% of everything they've checked. So keep defending him.

 

[Vol8188]

He is indeed a flip-flopper

Things Cruz has flip-flopped on:

• Marijuana

• Same-Sex Marriage

• immigration

• Birthright Citizenship

• Syria

• Trade

• Ethanol

• Funding the Crop Insurance Program

• Mass Deportation

• H-1B Visas

Add Syrian refugees to the list.

 

[n_huffhines]

Trying to figure out my vote, right now I think it's:

Trump vs Clinton - Clinton
Trump vs Sanders - Stay home
Cruz vs Clinton - Stay home
Cruz vs Sanders - Cruz/stay home
Rubio vs Clinton - Stay home
Rubio vs Sanders - Rubio

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Cruz shifts on Edward Snowden Cruz shifts on Edward Snowden | TheHill
“If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light,” he said at an event hosted by The Blaze in 2013.

If you would have read my full post you would have seen that your quote from Cruz above was also included in my post. And ftr... do you disagree (relevant to when it came to light in 2013) that what Snowden revealed wasn't a good thing to have happened? You don't believe the government was "over reaching"?

 

[carlos86]

If you would have read my full post you would have seen that your quote from Cruz above was also included in my post. And ftr... do you disagree (relevant to when it came to light in 2013) that what Snowden revealed wasn't a good thing to have happened? You don't believe the government was "over reaching"?

The NSA program was only 15% of the total files that he reveled. The rest was U.S. and NATO military signals intelligence that told Russia how the U.S. tracks and collects military intel on other countries.

 

[n_huffhines]

If you would have read my full post you would have seen that your quote from Cruz above was also included in my post. And ftr... do you disagree (relevant to when it came to light in 2013) that what Snowden revealed wasn't a good thing to have happened? You don't believe the government was "over reaching"?

So is Cruz saying it was good that Snowden betrayed us all?

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

OK, he championed Snowden, failed to label it, then later gave it a label that demonizes Snowden. Not a flip-flopper.

Are you sure it's not your bias that is showing?

Based on how I see it he reserved judgement until all the facts were out... what a horrible thing to do. He also agreed (you can use the word "championed" if you want) that what Snowden did was a "public service" much like your boy Rand. As I said before, there are other areas to attack Cruz on flip-flopping which would be much more relevant than this one. And ftr... if you're not biased then why didn't you call out Rand as well?

Rand Paul praises Edward Snowden for doing 'a service' to the U.S.

Libertarian senator and presidential candidate Rand Paul on Thursday praised Edward Snowden for exposing far-reaching government surveillance programs and floated the idea of a short prison sentence if the man he called "a whistleblower" agreed to return home.

 

[n_huffhines]

Based on how I see it he reserved judgement until all the facts were out... what a horrible thing to do. He also agreed (you can use the word "championed" if you want) that what Snowden did was a "public service" much like your boy Rand. As I said before, there are other areas to attack Cruz on flip-flopping which would be much more relevant than this one. And ftr... if you're not biased then why didn't you call out Rand as well?

Rand Paul praises Edward Snowden for doing 'a service' to the U.S.

Do the C you gotta do the T.

Rand hasn't flip-flopped. He would have called him a whistleblower back then. That's not the same thing as treason. Not even close.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Is that politofact? Because they've ruled that Cruz is lying on approximately 70% of everything they've checked. So keep defending him.

It wasn't Politofact. And... if you read my post then you would see that I'm not defending Cruz. I agreed that he has flipped on many issues, but simply pointing out that this is not the one to challenge him on. jmo but many people who are disagreeing with Cruz on this specific example are being hypocritical, or biased, or both. Again, go back and read the numerous posts from the Snowden thread. For reference, the title was "Edward Snowden: American Hero".

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Do the C you gotta do the T.

Rand hasn't flip-flopped. He would have called him a whistleblower back then. That's not the same thing as treason. Not even close.

Wait... so you don't think Snowden committed treason???

 

[carlos86]

Wait... so you don't think Snowden committed treason???

Snowden is a traitor point blank period.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Snowden is a traitor point blank period.

I agree... just trying to understand huff's point of Rand referring to him as a "whistleblower" versus committing treason. If huff agrees with Rand that what Snowden did was a "public service" and if he also agrees that Snowden committed treason, then he and anyone else is taking the same position as Cruz which was my original point.

 

[Gramps]

I agree... just trying to understand huff's point of Rand referring to him as a "whistleblower" versus committing treason. If huff agrees with Rand that what Snowden did was a "public service" and if he also agrees that Snowden committed treason, then he and anyone else is taking the same position as Cruz which was my original point.

Many posters on here defended Snowden vehemently as a hero. IMO, he is a 100% traitor.

 

[FLVOL69]

Trying to figure out my vote, right now I think it's:

Trump vs Clinton - Clinton
Trump vs Sanders - Stay home
Cruz vs Clinton - Stay home
Cruz vs Sanders - Cruz/stay home
Rubio vs Clinton - Stay home
Rubio vs Sanders - Rubio

Looks like you'll be staying at home..

 

[Franklin Pierce]

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are more in line with Trump. People who worked 40 to 50 years should not have their social security benefits decreased or limited in any way.

The amount of the average monthly social security check is very small. I don't see how they can live a decent life on such a small monthly income.

 

[n_huffhines]

Wait... so you don't think Snowden committed treason???

No.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Many posters on here defended Snowden vehemently as a hero. IMO, he is a 100% traitor.

That is your opinion now, and mine as well, but it wasn't mine in 2013 and I'm not sure it was your's either. Here's a post from volinbham that you responded to in the Snowden thread...

I'm glad he did what he did but if you break the law you pay the price.

I have mixed feelings on this. I wonder if he has leaked any other classified information.

The government cannot let this slide. Classified information is to be classified.

I think you and bham were two of the more level headed posters at the time (not taking a real strong "traitor" position, not thinking of Snowden as a hero, but also recognizing there will be some good that came out of this. I don't see where Cruz' position was any different. Was he perhaps being "political" at the time by not taking a hard position? Perhaps. But if so that was a wise position to take until more information came out.

Even for a person who despises Cruz as you do (is that a strong enough word ), I think you would agree that this is not the example to accuse him of flip flopping.

 

[carlos86]

My thoughts are more in line with Trump. People who worked 40 to 50 years should not have their social security benefits decreased or limited in any way.

The amount of the average monthly social security check is very small. I don't see how they can live a decent life on such a small monthly income.

The only way to save social security is to raise the age to 80.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

No.

I have no response.

 

[n_huffhines]

Treason is the only crime defined by the constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. "

He didn't do anything like that. He gave the world information so that Americans and their allies would know the United States government betrayed them. If you consider the American people the enemy, then yes...Edward Snowden aided the enemy and is a traitor.

 

[carlos86]

Treason is the only crime defined by the constitution.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. "

He didn't do anything like that. He gave the world information so that Americans and their allies would know the United States government betrayed them. If you consider the American people the enemy, then yes...Edward Snowden aided the enemy and is a traitor.

Snowden gave Russia top secret signals intelligence on the U.S. and NATO which allowed Russia to evade U.S. and NATO satellite imaging and move an entire Corps (60,000 troops and invade Ukraine without anyone knowing that they had mobilized their forces. Or maybe your forgot about that happening.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWvQHpQ12Ws[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx4DuBPKr5M[/youtube]

 

[Gramps]

Looks like you'll be staying at home..

It looks to me like he will be voting Clinton.

Trump vs Clinton

 

[Gramps]

That is your opinion now, and mine as well, but it wasn't mine in 2013 and I'm not sure it was your's either. Here's a post from volinbham that you responded to in the Snowden thread...





I think you and bham were two of the more level headed posters at the time (not taking a real strong "traitor" position, not thinking of Snowden as a hero, but also recognizing there will be some good that came out of this. I don't see where Cruz' position was any different. Was he perhaps being "political" at the time by not taking a hard position? Perhaps. But if so that was a wise position to take until more information came out.

Even for a person who despises Cruz as you do (is that a strong enough word ), I think you would agree that this is not the example to accuse him of flip flopping.

I would agree this is not the issue to show Cruz has flip-flopped.

He was careful on his wording early on, from what I have read, which was a wise move. (Man I hate to say that)



One of the major problems in politics is too many jump on a specific side of an issue before knowing what the facts are or what the facts appear to be simply because their side of the aisle is for or against.