Is Barnes too tough on his players?

#302
#302
calban said:
You should know the difference? You seem to be an expert at the latter.
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I can assure you I couldn't give 2 $hits if my coach told the media I needed to give better effort, I have had much worse things said about me through life and I'm not all that old. I don't think Barnes is going out and making fun of kids, or kicking their puppies, but is simply being honest. You look around or ask the media that cover Barnes, and they love him, say that his willingness to be honest and a straight shooter is a welcomed change after covering a guy like Butch most days who's the master at saying a whole lot of words but avoiding a question.

Simply put, do you think any of Reese/Alexander/Kasongo have given an effort that would match Armani Moore on a consistent basis? I sure as heck don't, and that's what Barnes mentioned last night. He understands each of these guys physical and skill limitations, but that doesn't excuse you from using the things you've worked on in practice and giving it 100%, if anything those 3 since they are a bit limited should be giving more effort, but that's not the case.

My guess is you don't see these things said about Fulkerson and Williams next year, and as a result yes you could see some attrition. As Bruin has mentioned, early in the year Mostella was Barnes biggest casualty, he really harped on that kid in the media, did it crumble him or do him a disservice? Mostella has emerged as a legitimate option and gives some hope as to where we can look to for some scoring next year, so kudos to Barnes to pressing the right buttons with Mostella, no? Just like I said with Jones, if you win, 99% of people really don't care about the attrition or calling a player or two out.
 
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#303
#303
bleedingTNorange said:
I can assure you I couldn't give 2 $hits if my coach told the media I needed to give better effort, I have had much worse things said about me through life and I'm not all that old. I don't think Barnes is going out and making fun of kids, or kicking their puppies, but is simply being honest. You look around or ask the media that cover Barnes, and they love him, say that his willingness to be honest and a straight shooter is a welcomed change after covering a guy like Butch most days who's the master at saying a whole lot of words but avoiding a question.

Simply put, do you think any of Reese/Alexander/Kasongo have given an effort that would match Armani Moore on a consistent basis? I sure as heck don't, and that's what Barnes mentioned last night. He understands each of these guys physical and skill limitations, but that doesn't excuse you from using the things you've worked on in practice and giving it 100%, if anything those 3 since they are a bit limited should be giving more effort, but that's not the case.

My guess is you don't see these things said about Fulkerson and Williams next year, and as a result yes you could see some attrition. As Bruin has mentioned, early in the year Mostella was Barnes biggest casualty, he really harped on that kid in the media, did it crumble him or do him a disservice? Mostella has emerged as a legitimate option and gives some hope as to where we can look to for some scoring next year, so kudos to Barnes to pressing the right buttons with Mostella, no? Just like I said with Jones, if you win, 99% of people really don't care about the attrition or calling a player or two out.
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Really good that you support your coach.
 
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#304
#304
bleedingTNorange said:
I can assure you I couldn't give 2 $hits if my coach told the media I needed to give better effort, I have had much worse things said about me through life and I'm not all that old. I don't think Barnes is going out and making fun of kids, or kicking their puppies, but is simply being honest. You look around or ask the media that cover Barnes, and they love him, say that his willingness to be honest and a straight shooter is a welcomed change after covering a guy like Butch most days who's the master at saying a whole lot of words but avoiding a question.

Simply put, do you think any of Reese/Alexander/Kasongo have given an effort that would match Armani Moore on a consistent basis? I sure as heck don't, and that's what Barnes mentioned last night. He understands each of these guys physical and skill limitations, but that doesn't excuse you from using the things you've worked on in practice and giving it 100%, if anything those 3 since they are a bit limited should be giving more effort, but that's not the case.

My guess is you don't see these things said about Fulkerson and Williams next year, and as a result yes you could see some attrition. As Bruin has mentioned, early in the year Mostella was Barnes biggest casualty, he really harped on that kid in the media, did it crumble him or do him a disservice? Mostella has emerged as a legitimate option and gives some hope as to where we can look to for some scoring next year, so kudos to Barnes to pressing the right buttons with Mostella, no? Just like I said with Jones, if you win, 99% of people really don't care about the attrition or calling a player or two out.
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Exactly. If I'm a player I want a coach who will say and do what it takes to make me a better player rather than one who simply strokes my ego and tells me how special I am.
 
#305
#305
calban said:
Really good that you support your coach.
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Just a few weeks ago this board blasted me for saying this team doesn't give consistent effort

Now we are excusing a coach for saying it over and over again in the media

Fact is one of the biggest jobs of a coach is to get his team to play hard. It's number 1 for me and this coach is failing at that with multiple players
 
#306
#306
CAVPUT said:
Exactly. If I'm a player I want a coach who will say and do what it takes to make me a better player rather than one who simply strokes my ego and tells me how special I am.
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What's wrong with a coach that is tough as nails and pushes his kids to limit AND has their back outside the lockerroom.

Those are the most effective coaches IMO

It's one of the main reasons we have seen jones make reporters stop reporting what he says on his microphone in practice. He grew tired of the kids being a punch line in the media
 
#307
#307
BruinVol said:
Just a few weeks ago this board blasted me for saying this team doesn't give consistent effort

Now we are excusing a coach for saying it over and over again in the media

Fact is one of the biggest jobs of a coach is to get his team to play hard. It's number 1 for me and this coach is failing at that with multiple players
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After his dismal 16-18 season finish he came out in the media and said something to the effect(following season) he was glad he wasn't coaching effort this season.
Is this his catchall for poor season performance?
 
#308
#308
calban said:
After his dismal 16-18 season finish he came out in the media and said something to the effect(following season) he was glad he wasn't coaching effort this season.
Is this his catchall for poor season performance?
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Classic way to pass the blame solely to the players when in fact it clearly means the message to the players is in fact what is flawed
 
#309
#309
BruinVol said:
Just a few weeks ago this board blasted me for saying this team doesn't give consistent effort

Now we are excusing a coach for saying it over and over again in the media

Fact is one of the biggest jobs of a coach is to get his team to play hard. It's number 1 for me and this coach is failing at that with multiple players
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The team is playing hard....its a few players that he is trying to reach.....In a normal year Ray and Kyle would both redshirt or at the very least not be counted on...Its bc we hired ZO and CDT that we are stuck playing Schofield, Moore, and Reese as our main post players.
 
#310
#310
volbeast33 said:
The team is playing hard....its a few players that he is trying to reach.....In a normal year Ray and Kyle would both redshirt or at the very least not be counted on...Its bc we hired ZO and CDT that we are stuck playing Schofield, Moore, and Reese as our main post players.
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True, in a normal (or what we hope will become a normal year), you only sign one of those guys and probably Alexander instead of Kasongo. I keep going back to the fact that Kasongo only played 15 minutes/game in JUCO last year. A guy who can contribute right away in D1 gets more than 15 minutes/game in JUCO, no matter how good his teammates are.
 
#311
#311
germanicus said:
True, in a normal (or what we hope will become a normal year), you only sign one of those guys and probably Alexander instead of Kasongo. I keep going back to the fact that Kasongo only played 15 minutes/game in JUCO last year. A guy who can contribute right away in D1 gets more than 15 minutes/game in JUCO, no matter how good his teammates are.
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But KasongBro thinks TN will be whipping dey SEC azzes if only Barnes will leave Ray in the games.
 
#313
#313
BruinVol said:
Classic way to pass the blame solely to the players when in fact it clearly means the message to the players is in fact what is flawed
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No it doesn't clearly mean that, that's your interpretation. It could just as well mean some of the players are simply aren't getting it. Stop making it so black and white, it can obviously be a mix of both.
 
#321
#321
BigZiti09 said:
Bruin, has anyone ever told you that you overthink things?
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lol

Only a few thousands times here

In athletics it's the coaches job to get his kids to respond to his message.
If kids aren't responding then changes have to be made in that message.

Pretty simply to me
 
#322
#322
BruinVol said:
lol

Only a few thousands times here

In athletics it's the coaches job to get his kids to respond to his message.
If kids aren't responding then changes have to be made in that message.

Pretty simply to me
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We are right where we should be. Mostella seems like he's responding well. Barnes and the first year players have been here for just a few months. I am willing to let the season unfold. So far, we have been right about where we should be and that is a good thing.

I think all this talk about Barnes coaching style is overreacting.

I have plenty of questions about Rick Barnes. I have my doubts about him but we can't over analyze every word a coach says.
 
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#323
#323
BigZiti09 said:
We are right where we should be. Mostella seems like he's responding well. Barnes and the first year players have been here for just a few months. I am willing to let the season unfold. So far, we have been right about where we should be and that is a good thing.

I think all this talk about Barnes coaching style is overreacting.

I have plenty of questions about Rick Barnes. I have my doubts about him but we can't over analyze every word a coach says.
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Not sure I would say we are where we are supposed to be. 7-5 in the preconference is significantly worse than the predictions made here

Now obviously I wasn't a fan of Barnes at the first but there is a significant list he has impressed me with. Only 2 areas I am disappointed in but those 2 are the most important IMO

Things Barnes has exceeded my expectations in:

Discipline. The team plays extremely disciplined and that surprises me. I assumed this would be a weakness of Barnes and I was clearly wrong

X/Os have been ok. I don't think we have been "outcoached" in this area with the exception of out of bounds plays. This is another thing I expected Barnes to struggle with and he has proven me wrong so far

Individual development has been superb with the guys. Especially punter, hubbs, and Mostella


Now the negatives.

Extremely disappointed in the consistent effort shown by the players which is the topic here the past few pages. His message isn't being recieved and IMO that may be a sign he hasn't changed with the times.

Recruiting. This was an area we were supposed to be excited about and that has been relagated to hoping We were like Derek Dooley and found a few Cam Suttons. Hopefully we did
 
#324
#324
BruinVol said:
Not sure I would say we are where we are supposed to be. 7-5 in the preconference is significantly worse than the predictions made here

Now obviously I wasn't a fan of Barnes at the first but there is a significant list he has impressed me with. Only 2 areas I am disappointed in but those 2 are the most important IMO

Things Barnes has exceeded my expectations in:

Discipline. The team plays extremely disciplined and that surprises me. I assumed this would be a weakness of Barnes and I was clearly wrong

X/Os have been ok. I don't think we have been "outcoached" in this area with the exception of out of bounds plays. This is another thing I expected Barnes to struggle with and he has proven me wrong so far

Individual development has been superb with the guys. Especially punter, hubbs, and Mostella


Now the negatives.

Extremely disappointed in the consistent effort shown by the players which is the topic here the past few pages. His message isn't being recieved and IMO that may be a sign he hasn't changed with the times.

Recruiting. This was an area we were supposed to be excited about and that has been relagated to hoping We were like Derek Dooley and found a few Cam Suttons. Hopefully we did
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So you base where we are "supposed to be" based on the predictions on a fan board? By that logic Butch Jones doesn't have his team where they should be because several predicted we'd win the SEC East this year.
 
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#325
#325
VolsSportsFan said:
So you base where we are "supposed to be" based on the predictions on a fan board? By that logic Butch Jones doesn't have his team where they should be because several predicted we'd win the SEC East this year.
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The majority of fans predicted 7,8, or 9 wins in football. Most predicted 8. Vegas had the total at 7.5

So yes a pretty good indocator
 
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