Ok it's Official: Best 8-4 Team in Murica

[Wylo]

Recruiting...


He's a proven great coach, a top tier coach, in about 5 or 6 of the 7 or 8 major categories you could grade a college coach on. He MIGHT be great in those other 1 or 2 ways as well. We'll know for sure in the next year or two.

Folks who forget the 75% and then ALSO go all pessimistic on the remaining 25%, well that's just foolish.

You must be high. He is not a "great" or "top tier" coach by anyone's metrics...

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban


These are two current coaches that I think are considered great. You think Butch is on their level?


Butch is a proven "decent" coach. He's a great salesman. Decent coach.

 

[jbradley1382]

Apparently USC at 8-5 are better than us. According to AP and USA Today

 

[VFL-82-JP]

What exactly does that mean? If that's true, and it technically is, I could counter with a handful of points vs SCar and Georgia that could've gone the other way, 12 to be exact, that would've left us at 6-6. I see the improved talent on the roster and the improved play on the field. But that stat of how many points we were from 12-0 is a hollow one. Just really doesn't mean much of anything.

And I don't honestly believe there's much sense to the Arkansas and Alabama hypotheticals.

We were never really in the game with Arkansas, first quarter notwithstanding. We were WAY flat that game, and truly lost. Even though today I think we're the better team. That day, Arky was better.

And Bama. We played our best game of the year against them, a truly inspired performance, and came up just a smidge short. That's a sign that Bama is truly a better team. They'd beat us 4 times out of 5.

So I don't see arguing that we were "X points" away from beating either of them. Those games are what they are.

Now Florida and Oklahoma, we had very real opportunities to win both those games. Those, I can sympathize with people playing the what-if game.

On the flip side, I might be able to empathize with a Dawg fan doing his what-if drill. They very well might have won that one. It was closely balanced.

Not USCe, their game with us is like our game with Bama. They gave it their very best (against our near-worst) and came up short. That game was never going the other way, no matter what.

Bottom line: the "realistic" what-if swing is from 10-2 down to 7-5. Not 12-0 down to 6-6.

 

[crusse10]

You must be high. He is not a "great" or "top tier" coach by anyone's metrics...

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban


These are two current coaches that I think are considered great. You think Butch is on their level?


Butch is a proven "decent" coach. He's a great salesman. Decent coach.

can he still prove himself to be even better than decent?

 

[Wylo]

can he still prove himself to be even better than decent?

Absolutely.

 

[crusse10]

Absolutely.

Then piss off. You are admitting that the coach who has taken us from being bad and being blown out with regularity is "decent." In 3 seasons, this "decent" coach has improved the win percentage every year. In your eyes, he can still be a great coach...Then why do you always act like he's the worst thing ever? Is it just to try and put other fans in their place for being excited about the direction of the team?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Recruiting...

and Developing...

and Managing (there's a lot of management involved in a college football program)...

and Representing...

and Selling...

and--though you are very hesitant to admit it--Coaching....

and--though you're even more hesitant to admit this--Strategizing.

He's a proven great coach, a top tier coach, in about 5 or 6 of the 7 or 8 major categories you could grade a college coach on. He MIGHT be great in those other 1 or 2 ways as well. We'll know for sure in the next year or two.

Folks who forget the 75% and then ALSO go all pessimistic on the remaining 25%, well that's just foolish.

I sat in XX and watched the coaches piss away the OK game. Sure they weren't playing. Sure if the kids had executed each and every play like it was the first two minutes of the game and we were 2-3 deep at crucial positions we would have won. However, all that had to be done to win that game was clock management. Our entire group noticed that crucial error in the 3rd quarter. They didn't ask me and they don't pay me millions. So to talk about CBJ as if he is the second coming at this point in his tenure is foolish.

 

[NashVol11]

I just want you to get to the point where you admit that the players have to execute. You basically give them the safe space to execute poorly by putting all of the blame on Jones. There were multiple opportunities for the Vols to end the game. Every play features 11 Vols trying to make a play to win, none of which are Butch Jones. Take a better angle and you beat Florida. Get out of your stance quicker on the snap to get more pressure on the quarterback and you beat Florida.

We had our chances and the players didn't make the plays.

And frankly I wish Medley could have that field goal opportunity today.

Which is more true about the Florida game: the players let Butch down, or vice versa?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Which is more true about the Florida game: the players let Butch down, or vice versa?

Neither. It's a false choice.

In reality, the players let themselves and the team down. The coaches let themselves and the team down.

It's a team game. It was a team loss. Any one of 14 different things, if done differently, could have flipped the L to a W. A few of those 14 were on coaches; the rest were on players.

They're a team. We should think of them as a team, I think.

 

[crusse10]

Which is more true about the Florida game: the players let Butch down, or vice versa?

The players didn't stop Florida in crunch time. The players missed the game-winner. The players didn't beat Florida in the trenches on a drive that could have run out the clock. The players lost the game.

If you want to hang it all on the way the game was managed, go for it. But the game was put in the hands of the team. They were given the ball with less than 4 minutes left. The offensive line didn't beat the Gators defensive line. Then our defensive pressure couldn't get to Grier on 4th down. Our defensive backfield couldn't bring down a receiver.

There were plenty of opportunities for the 11 Vols playing the snaps to get the W.

 

[NashVol11]

The players didn't stop Florida in crunch time. The players missed the game-winner. The players didn't beat Florida in the trenches on a drive that could have run out the clock. The players lost the game.

If you want to hang it all on the way the game was managed, go for it. But the game was put in the hands of the team. They were given the ball with less than 4 minutes left. The offensive line didn't beat the Gators defensive line. Then our defensive pressure couldn't get to Grier on 4th down. Our defensive backfield couldn't bring down a receiver.

There were plenty of opportunities for the 11 Vols playing the snaps to get the W.

So, you saw the Florida game as Butch putting us in position to win, and the players letting him down. I'd say the exact opposite given how well and how hard we played, but I'm sure putting it on the players is less troubling for the future

 

[Wylo]

Then piss off. You are admitting that the coach who has taken us from being bad and being blown out with regularity is "decent." In 3 seasons, this "decent" coach has improved the win percentage every year. In your eyes, he can still be a great coach...Then why do you always act like he's the worst thing ever? Is it just to try and put other fans in their place for being excited about the direction of the team?

I will stay around, thanks.

Butch can get better. Everyone CAN get better. Butch won't, and I'll hang around to let you know my feelings on the matter. Butch has already shown that he doesn't learn from his mistakes. So I'll ride this one out with you. It'll work out one way or another.

 

[Wylo]

The players didn't stop Florida in crunch time. The players missed the game-winner. The players didn't beat Florida in the trenches on a drive that could have run out the clock. The players lost the game.

If you want to hang it all on the way the game was managed, go for it. But the game was put in the hands of the team. They were given the ball with less than 4 minutes left. The offensive line didn't beat the Gators defensive line. Then our defensive pressure couldn't get to Grier on 4th down. Our defensive backfield couldn't bring down a receiver.

There were plenty of opportunities for the 11 Vols playing the snaps to get the W.

Butch didn't put the players in position to be successful.

The pitiful extra point that the whole world knew should've been 2.

The timeout when Florida had decided to punt.

Putting a qb spy on a qb on 4th and 14 that just got blasted the previous play and wasn't going to run anywhere.

Butch botching the final drive multiple times and getting a whopping 4 plays off before deciding on a near unhittable field goal.

These things are on the leader....

 

[508mikey]

Butch didn't put the players in position to be successful.

The pitiful extra point that the whole world knew should've been 2.

The timeout when Florida had decided to punt.

Putting a qb spy on a qb on 4th and 14 that just got blasted the previous play and wasn't going to run anywhere.

Butch botching the final drive multiple times and getting a whopping 4 plays off before deciding on a near unhittable field goal.

These things are on the leader....

You left off the poor play calling on the series before the UF game winning TD -- 2 runs up the middle and then it looked like they told Dobbs to lay down and well punt it

 

[Wylo]

You left off the poor play calling on the series before the UF game winning TD -- 2 runs up the middle and then it looked like they told Dobbs to lay down and well punt it

Butch ball at its best. Lay down and then blame depth...

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

Not true. He's been been on VolNation going on 8 years and I'm guessing has been a Vols fan for many, many more years. His opinion differs with yours, doesn't see things the way you do with regards to the headcoach/coaching staff. Doesn't make him a bandwagon fan.

I'd be willing to bet there are trolls who call themselves VOL fans who have been here much longer then 8 years....the eight year thing doesn't disqualify him from being a Troll. But you are right in the sense that differing opinions doesn't detract from one's fandom.

 

[Wylo]

I'd be willing to bet there are trolls who call themselves VOL fans who have been here much longer then 8 years....the eight year thing doesn't disqualify him from being a Troll. But you are right in the sense that differing opinions doesn't detract from one's fandom.

There is not one person that will stay around 8 years just to troll a different fanbase.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

There is not one person that will stay around 8 years just to troll a different fanbase.

I would like to introduce you to 99gator, Bamawriter, Lawrence_Wright, and LawGator.

Six years, eight years, nine years, they've been around quite a while.

If you can stick around as an overt fan of a different school, you can absolutely stick around as a covert fan.

 

[BenGrimm]

Mostly I agree with you, except that Tennessee has proven they can beat scrubs. That's it. They got Georgia, barely, but got them. Butch has shown he can't beat the biggest competition. So the logic that Tennessee would beat, or even scare the top 10-15 teams in the country, is being very generous.

And I'm always down for good natured fun. Which I why I yank so many of the flocks' chains.

What kills me about you, wylo (and a handful of others), is you say things like "we beat Georgia, barely" in an attempt to take something away from the win... Well buddy, it goes both ways. OU, FL, ARK, & Bama "barely" beat us. I guess they stink too. I mean they couldn't even put away a lousy TN team right?

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

There is not one person that will stay around 8 years just to troll a different fanbase.

You're very naive!

 

[P.O.T.S. VOL]

I would like to introduce you to 99gator, Bamawriter, Lawrence_Wright, and LawGator.

Six years, eight years, nine years, they've been around quite a while.

If you can stick around as an overt fan of a different school, you can absolutely stick around as a covert fan.

Boomshakalaka!

 

[knucklehead_vol]

What kills me about you, wylo (and a handful of others), is you say things like "we beat Georgia, barely" in an attempt to take something away from the win... Well buddy, it goes both ways. OU, FL, ARK, & Bama "barely" beat us. I guess they stink too. I mean they couldn't even put away a lousy TN team right?

What kills me is dude wants UT to be better. What's wrong with that? I agree with him that with the right coaching we would be in the playoffs. Butch has done a great job recruiting and selling the university. But bring in better coaches at least or he will always be an 8 win coach. Think about this. What happens if we lose a bowl game and then lose to VT? All the orange overall wearing checkerboard mullets on this board will be pissed. If he win's maybe that a step in the right direction and the said people above can gloat. But the staff isn't close to being the best staff in America, maybe best friends. And Fuente will give him all he can handle.

 

[montanatenn]

There is not one person that will stay around 8 years just to troll a different fanbase.

I think you are a fan Wylo, but you just have a crappy way of showing it. You are not showing support when all you do is criticize. Anyone with half a brain can see UTs' football program is on an upward trajectory. Open debate is healthy and improvements need to be made. We all know that, but most people feel better about the teams' status now, as opposed to 4 years ago.

 

[golfballs]

That's just it, it shouldn't be progress, this was set up to be special. Butch not knowing how to count and when to call timeouts and Butch not understanding big boy football cost this team.

Haha. You're certainly special

 

[peerless98]

Best 8-4 team this year? Probably. Nobody was upset about that statement.


But the fact you're bragging about 4 losses says plenty about your loser mentality.

Yay for us. We are an awesome team. Only 4 losses away from mattering.

I see some of your points, but please show where anyone is bragging about 4 losses.