Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#302
#302
VFL-82-JP said:
Well, this is one criticism of him that I would agree is absolutely valid. He doesn't think through (wargame, murder board, etc.) how his statements might be interpreted or misinterpreted.

Someone smart once said that when you're in a position of leadership and great responsibility, it is not enough to merely speak so that you can be understood. You must communicate so that you can NOT easily be MISunderstood.

But doesn't put enough effort into the latter sometimes. This is one of those time, I think.

Don't know how much time he had to give forethought to this point he made during Vol Calls, whether it was a spur-of-the-moment response to a question or a talking point he knew in advance he wanted to work in. If it was the former, meh, it's understandable that he gave a answer that could easily be misinterpreted. If the latter, then he was wrong not to think through it more.

That's about the only valid criticism you can level on the guy from this whole matter. Aside from that, he's getting a lot of undeserved grief from folks who are just looking for opportunities to put him down.
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I can't really argue that point because to me it can be very subjective. I just know for me I don't worry about what is said in the media regardless because in the grand scheme of things it is all about what happens on the field. Some people aren't that way and so it won't matter how CBJ tries to communicate people will take it how they want to
 
#303
#303
TennesseeFan07 said:
Coach 120 definitely made a baseless comment. Since the inaugural SEC Championship game in 1992:

1992: Gene Stallings (third year)
1993: Steve Spurrier (fourth year)
1994: Steve Spurrier (second title in his fifth year)
1995: Steve Spurrier (third title in his sixth year)
1996: Steve Spurrier (fourth in his seventh year)
1997: Phillip Fulmer (fifth full year)
1998: Phillip Fulmer (second title in his 6th full year)
1999: Mike Dubose (third year)
2000: Steve Spurrier (fifth title in his 11th year)
2001: Nick Saban (second year)
2002: Mark Richt (second year)
2003: Nick Saban (second title in fourth year)
2004: Tommy Tubberville (first title in his sixth year)
2005: Mark Richt (second title in his fifth year)
2006: Urban Meyer (first title in his second year)
2007: Les Miles (first title in his third year)
2008: Urban Meyer (second title in his fourth year)
2009: Nick Saban (first title in his third year)
2010: Gene Chizik (first title in his second year)
2011: Les Miles (second title in his seventh year)
2012: Nick Saban (second title in his sixth year)
2013: Gus Malzahn (first title in his second year)
2014: Nick Saban (third title in his eighth year)

You can come to one of three conclusions based on the statement. Either Tennessee's coach is completely delusional, Tennessee's coach is talking to some really uniformed people or Tennessee's coach is just making things up to have a built in excuse later on down the road.
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I think I'd rather hold cbj to these coaches standards than the prehistoric list of coaches vfl-82-jp had on his chart.
 
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#304
#304
volunteerfan said:
I think I'd rather hold cbj to these coaches standards than the prehistoric list of coaches vfl-82-jp had on his chart.
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Okay, sure.

That means if he gets an SEC Championship in his 4th year, he matches up with Spurrier.

His 5th year, and he equals Fulmer.

His 6th year, and he's with Tuberville.

All three of those are decent coaches, unless you don't like guys who led their teams to undefeated seasons, won coach of the year awards and (in 2 of the 3 cases) won national championships.

Not bad company.

And I'm with you, btw. We should expect a championship from him by then. Heck, I'm hoping for one next year. :)


p.s. About those "old guys" i listed -- it's usually the coach AFTER the rebuilder who wins a national championship. Dickey was the exception to the rule, he both rebuilt and won it all. Here's hoping Butch follows his example. :)
 
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#305
#305
VFL-82-JP said:
Okay, sure.

That means if he gets an SEC Championship in his 4th year, he matches up with Spurrier.

His 5th year, and he equals Fulmer.

His 6th year, and he's with Tuberville.

All three of those are decent coaches, unless you don't like guys who led their teams to undefeated seasons, won coach of the year awards and (in 2 of the 3 cases) won national championships.

Not bad company.

And I'm with you, btw. We should expect a championship from him by then. Heck, I'm hoping for one next year. :)[/QUOTE

It's 2015 buddy so no I'm not interested in talking about coaches from 30+ years ago. Different era that can't compare to what football is today
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#306
#306
volunteerfan said:
It's 2015 buddy so no I'm not interested in talking about coaches from 30+ years ago. Different era that can't compare to what football is today
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You just showed your youth.

Tuberville is still coaching.

Spurrier retired one month ago (not 30 years).

Fulmer was fired 7 years back.

Plus, the game hasn't evolved that much. What was great when these three were winning championships would still be great today.

In short: different era, my azz.
 
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#307
#307
VFL-82-JP said:
Okay, sure.

That means if he gets an SEC Championship in his 4th year, he matches up with Spurrier.

His 5th year, and he equals Fulmer.

His 6th year, and he's with Tuberville.

All three of those are decent coaches, unless you don't like guys who led their teams to undefeated seasons, won coach of the year awards and (in 2 of the 3 cases) won national championships.

Not bad company.

And I'm with you, btw. We should expect a championship from him by then. Heck, I'm hoping for one next year. :)


p.s. About those "old guys" i listed -- it's usually the coach AFTER the rebuilder who wins a national championship. Dickey was the exception to the rule, he both rebuilt and won it all. Here's hoping Butch follows his example. :)
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Dickey's championship is the least valid of the ones we claim. Dickey was building a super power before he bolted.
 
#308
#308
VFL-82-JP said:
You just showed your youth.

Those of us who have been around a while, we know that 30 years can feel like the blink of an eye.

The game hasn't evolved that much. What was great then would be great today. Heck, Tuberville is still coaching (though I don't know how well he's doing), and Spurrier just gave up the ghost a month ago (and was doing pretty well right up until last year).

In short: different era, my azz.
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Let's don't conveniently leave off Saban, miles, and Meyer.
Coaches that I would want cbj to model his program after. Didn't take them 6-7 years is point I was making
 
#309
#309
thebjd said:
Dickey's championship is the least valid of the ones we claim. Dickey was building a super power before he bolted.
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Agree on both points. One of which reinforces my argument (he was building a super power, and Butch may be as well), and the other of which neither helps nor hurts it, it just is (it is the weakest claim of our 6 championships).
 
#310
#310
volunteerfan said:
Let's don't conveniently leave off Saban, miles, and Meyer.
Coaches that I would want cbj to model his program after. Didn't take them 6-7 years is point I was making
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No, they didn't. But every coach isn't the same. If you want Saban, you have to go hire Saban. If you want Miles, go get Miles.

If you want a championship-winning coach, it doesn't have to be any of those three, and may not look much like them (in body of work I mean, not just physical appearance). It may look more like one of those other championship-winning coaches I mentioned, either recent ones (Spurrier, Fulmer, Tuberville), or further back (Majors, Dickey).
 
#311
#311
VFL-82-JP said:
Well, this is one criticism of him that I would agree is absolutely valid. He doesn't think through (wargame, murder board, etc.) how his statements might be interpreted or misinterpreted.

Someone smart once said that when you're in a position of leadership and great responsibility, it is not enough to merely speak so that you can be understood. You must communicate so that you can NOT easily be MISunderstood.

Butch doesn't put enough effort into the latter sometimes. This is one of those times, I think.

Don't know how much time he had to give forethought to this point he made during Vol Calls, whether it was a spur-of-the-moment response to a question or a talking point he knew in advance he wanted to work in. If it was the former, meh, it's understandable that he gave a answer that could easily be misinterpreted. If the latter, then he was wrong not to think it through better than he did.

That's about the only valid criticism you can level on the guy from this whole matter. Aside from that, he's getting a lot of undeserved grief from folks who are just looking for opportunities to put him down.
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allvol21 said:
I heard his remarks about this on vol calls last night. His intentions were not to say that it would take 6-7 years to compete for an SEC championship. He said that he spoke to "someone" recently that felt like it took 6-7 years to completely build the depth on the roster that you want. Anyone that thinks Butch feels like he can keep his job without getting to Atlanta in 6 years is delusional. We know better, and he does too.
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If he's recalling recent conversations about the question asked I doubt it was anything but the latter. Jones is pretty tactful with responses. To the point some see him as boring a repetitive most of the time. I don't really care about those comments. Many coaches can be that way with the majority of their words.

I think when he makes more in depth comments such as these they have a purpose.
 
#312
#312
tnvols72 said:
It actually does take 6-7 years if you are Butch Jones and you are doing on the job training. He is just setting the fans up for next year when he has those in games melt downs.


Gators coach disagrees with BJ
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Go home.
 
#314
#314
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't know. You'd have to ask DAJ. He's the one who can get into details about which programs are (given talent levels based on past recruiting classes) expected to win what % of their games in any given season, and which coaches have a track record of significantly exceeding or underperforming. Match those two sets of stats together, and you get McElwain + 100 others. So don't know how it would come out for Tennessee and all those others.

I think DAJ was predicting 7.5 wins for Tennessee this year, iirc. So if we finish the regular season at 8-4 as most expect, we're looking for coaches who neither greatly exceed nor greatly underperform expectations based on talent. I suspect that's the 100 of 120 body that matches Florida's situation now as well.

But ask DAJ, he'll be able to give the definitive response.
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No need. Im good in that regard.:hi:
 
#315
#315
VFL-82-JP said:
Based on what you've said in this thread (and others), you're one of those many folks who didn't predict Florida's success as well as DAJ did. So maybe your "common sense" isn't as good as you think it is.
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Everyone was wrong about Florida thriving this year, present company included. Being wrong isn't the same as lacking common sense.

Now to suggest that 83% of coaches would produce the exact same results as McElwain, results that virtually no one predicted before the season, that's the very definition of lacking common sense.
 
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#317
#317
I think the only way that it doesn't take less than 6-7 years is if all of your positions as groups (like the offensive line, the WRs, etc.) are spaced out so that only 1 position (or 2, max) open per year. If you are going to have to completely remake a whole position group, you are going to struggle there for at least a couple years. Because the offensive line had the door open up at every single position the same year, I agree with 6-7 years. By then, the line will be tinkered and fixed.

As for everyone that's slamming their heads into the wall complaining about how Florida has done what they've done in the first year...just remember. Auburn has had 2 championship (not undefeated my bad) seasons in the last 5 years. I don't believe either Chizik or Malzahn built a powerhouse SEC program. Sure, an undefeated season is awesome. But truthfully, I'd prefer the building process to be done properly so when we are in the championship picture, it's not a fluke before a failure and a fire.
 
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#324
#324
Lawrence Wright said:
Sweet, I was wrong about UF being good this year.

I can't lose for winning. :rock:
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Yep, you got it made. Situation any of 100 coaches could lead you guys to, that's the definition of a good situation. :good!:

Lawrence Wright said:
83% of coaches can win the division at Florida because statistics.
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Don't go hatin' just because you don't understand it. DAJ will help you out if you just ask. :)
 
#325
#325
I don't understand those who say they hate mediocrity but want to change coaches again. Wouldn't that just lead to more mediocrity?
 
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