Are Old Testament Stories Allegory or Literal History?

[PKT_VOL]

Yes.

If so, then this makes no sense:

They are spent on defense. Training and equipping our military. Due to my affiliation, I am essentially paying for a portion of my own salary.

The government can't tax itself.

 

[SergeantVol]

If so, then this makes no sense:



The government can't tax itself.

The government doesn't tax itself. I am the one getting taxed. My salary does.

 

[n_huffhines]

The government doesn't tax itself. I am the one getting taxed. My salary does.

Fair point, but I'm willing to bet your non-civilian tax breaks more than offset the fraction of your taxes that would have gone to military spending.

 

[SergeantVol]

Fair point, but I'm willing to bet your non-civilian tax breaks more than offset the fraction of your taxes that would have gone to military spending.

I don't receive any non-civilian tax break. Wish I did, I get taxed just like a civilian worker. The only time government workers/ military members receive tax breaks is when we serve in combat zones.

 

[SergeantVol]

In the grand scheme of everything, my tax dollars are a drop in the bucket and do not matter much. I believe that every citizen should have a voice. Isn't that why we have a representative democratic republic?

 

[n_huffhines]

In the grand scheme of everything, my tax dollars are a drop in the bucket and do not matter much. I believe that every citizen should have a voice. Isn't that why we have a representative democratic republic?

They do have a voice. Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't. What we are saying is it's not feasible for public schools to accommodate the various religious theories about ID that parents may want taught. I agree that schools should be more responsive to parents, but public school is always going to be unsatisfactory in a number of ways to a large population of the people because there are too many interests, and government services suck anyway.

You can take your kids out of the science classes you don't like, tho.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

My grandson who is on the 6th grade attending a public school was doing his homework at our home a couple of weeks ago. He worksheet was concerning Moses and the Exdous. Oh the horror, will this cause him permanent damage?

I was really shocked they were teaching that. It was in his social studies class.

He is doomed Gramps. He will be indoctrinated now and will refuse anything concerning science. Because as you know, one cannot have a religious belief and a love and respect for science. You have to choose one or the other. Either you choose to accept science and live in foxholes, or you have to believe in God and reject everything science offers.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

They do have a voice. Nobody is arguing that they shouldn't. What we are saying is it's not feasible for public schools to accommodate the various religious theories about ID that parents may want taught. I agree that schools should be more responsive to parents, but public school is always going to be unsatisfactory in a number of ways to a large population of the people because there are too many interests, and government services suck anyway.

You can take your kids out of the science classes you don't like, tho.

So its not feasible to designate one chapter in a book that would cover those ID concepts? Yeah thats not doable at all. Thats hogwash and you know it.

Nobody is saying that the whole science class be devoted to ID or that a teacher should spend a huge time teaching it. But to say its not feasible to incorporate ID is false.

 

[n_huffhines]

So its not feasible to designate one chapter in a book that would cover those ID concepts? Yeah thats not doable at all. Thats hogwash and you know it.

Nobody is saying that the whole science class be devoted to ID or that a teacher should spend a huge time teaching it. But to say its not feasible to incorporate ID is false.

Uhhh, yeah it is what Sarge said. The context was an entire course, not a section of a course.

I think it's fine to teach a chapter on ID, but I am pretty sure you would not like the way it would be taught.

 

[Septic]

He is doomed Gramps. He will be indoctrinated now and will refuse anything concerning science. Because as you know, one cannot have a religious belief and a love and respect for science. You have to choose one or the other. Either you choose to accept science and live in foxholes, or you have to believe in God and reject everything science offers.

 

[Septic]

So its not feasible to designate one chapter in a book that would cover those ID concepts? Yeah thats not doable at all. Thats hogwash and you know it.

Nobody is saying that the whole science class be devoted to ID or that a teacher should spend a huge time teaching it. But to say its not feasible to incorporate ID is false.

ID isn't science. At. All. Hell, it's not even a theory, scientifically speaking.

Why would it be introduced in a science class at all?

 

[SergeantVol]

Uhhh, yeah it is what Sarge said. The context was an entire course, not a section of a course.

I think it's fine to teach a chapter on ID, but I am pretty sure you would not like the way it would be taught.

I am saying it could be an alternative offering (i.e. an elective). Heck when I went to high school there was a Bible history class that was an elective. I went to school in east Tennessee and graduated in 2001.

 

[Septic]

I am saying it could be an alternative offering (i.e. an elective). Heck when I went to high school there was a Bible history class that was an elective. I went to school in east Tennessee and graduated in 2001.

How about we keep bible study and bible history in church? We could do it on Sunday and call it Sunday School. In the summer when the kiddies are on vacation, we could call it vacation bible school. Just a thought.:good!:

 

[Obsessed]

How about we keep bible study and bible history in church? We could do it on Sunday and call it Sunday School. In the summer when the kiddies are on vacation, we could call it vacation bible school. Just a thought.:good!:

You shouldn't be so scared. Let them learn all ideas and theory's. Let them draw their own conclusions.

Isn't that what school is for?

 

[PKT_VOL]

How about we keep bible study and bible history in church? We could do it on Sunday and call it Sunday School. In the summer when the kiddies are on vacation, we could call it vacation bible school. Just a thought.:good!:

What is wrong with a Bible history/theology/world religions class as an elective?

 

[n_huffhines]

I am saying it could be an alternative offering (i.e. an elective). Heck when I went to high school there was a Bible history class that was an elective. I went to school in east Tennessee and graduated in 2001.

I understood what you said. You need to help BOT out, though.

 

[Septic]

What is wrong with a Bible history/theology/world religions class as an elective?

Nothing at all, I'd be totally on board with that - they could all be taught side by side in that appropriate setting.

Just don't present it between the dissecting a frog week and Krebs cycle sections of science class.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Nothing at all, I'd be totally on board with that - they could all be taught side by side in that appropriate setting.

Just don't present it between the dissecting a frog week and Krebs cycle sections of science class.

Yes, but that's not what he said in the post you responded to. You're strawmaning him.

 

[Obsessed]

Yes, but that's not what he said in the post you responded to. You're strawmaning him.

Uh oh......

 

[MercyPercy]

You shouldn't be so scared. Let them learn all ideas and theory's. Let them draw their own conclusions.

Isn't that what school is for?

Interesting. Would be curious how there would be time for "ALL ideas and theories" to be taught in school. Sounds like you haven't really thought that out if you think that is in any way feasible(much less logical). Consider that not all theories are equal in evidence and support, and that many in particular are not even scientific theories. So, I have to ask, what exactly do you want taught in science class, and is there a realistic basis for its inclusion?

I have no problem with a philosophy of science, world religions, Bible study, mooslem history etc elective courses. But those electives should not be melded into science courses, as their subject matter is not relevant to the goals of teaching biology, anatomy, earth sciences, etc.

 

[Obsessed]

Interesting. Would be curious how there would be time for "ALL ideas and theories" to be taught in school. Sounds like you haven't really thought that out if you think that is in any way feasible(much less logical). Consider that not all theories are equal in evidence and support, and that many in particular are not even scientific theories. So, I have to ask, what exactly do you want taught in science class, and is there a realistic basis for its inclusion?

I have no problem with a philosophy of science, world religions, Bible study, mooslem history etc elective courses. But those electives should not be melded into science courses, as their subject matter is not relevant to the goals of teaching biology, anatomy, earth sciences, etc.

It can be taught in the same class where the teacher also suggests that maybe the big bang occurred?

Again I ask, what are you guys so scared of? You were obviously smart enough to realize God doesn't exist, why can't the other kids?

Geez. Relax.

 

[MercyPercy]

It can be taught in the same class where the teacher also suggests that maybe the big bang occurred?

What can? Specifically?

Again I ask, what are you guys so scared of? You were obviously smart enough to realize God doesn't exist, why can't the other kids?

Geez. Relax.

Who is afraid? Are you afraid kids will forget their Bible lessons if they don't talk about creationism in science class?

No? You aren't? Well, now that we're clear neither of us is scared, I guess we can actually discuss the merits of your argument.

 

[Obsessed]

What can? Specifically?



Who is afraid? Are you afraid kids will forget their Bible lessons if they don't talk about creationism in science class?

No? You aren't? Well, now that we're clear neither of us is scared, I guess we can actually discuss the merits of your argument.

What argument?

God isn't allowed in schools. I just think it's silly for folks to be up in arms over the idea of it.

What is it going to hurt?

I look at this the same way as gay marriage. Gay marriage isn't going to effect my life. At all.

Kids learning another alternative to life's beginning in science class, isn't going to effect my life at all.

Ease up. Allow them to have all avenues of education. Let them learn. Let them decide. Who are you and I to decide their curriculum?

 

[MercyPercy]

What argument?

Your argument for teaching creationism in a science course. Since you won't specifically say exactly what you want taught, which is kind of telling, I am working under the assumption that you're talking about generic creationism.

God isn't allowed in schools. I just think it's silly for folks to be up in arms over the idea of it.

What is it going to hurt?

That isn't necessarily true. The rule is, public schools will not show preferential treatment towards one religion over others.

I look at this the same way as gay marriage. Gay marriage isn't going to effect my life. At all.

Kids learning another alternative to life's beginning in science class, isn't going to effect my life at all.

You've lost me here. Skipping over the gay marriage stuff, what particularly perturbs you about keeping a non-scientific theory out of science class? Why can't that remain in philosophy or some elective? You haven't really made any argument for it, just "why not?"

I have asked you multiple times, what specifically would you like taught regarding creationism in science class. If you can't figure out or yourself what it is exactly that you're even asking for, I can't respond appropriately.

Ease up. Allow them to have all avenues of education. Let them learn. Let them decide.

No one is disallowing kids to decide for themselves whether they want to believe in god or not. That's a straw man you've set up to make it appear like schools are actively preventing one from having faith. That's part of the ever pervasive persecution complex that rears its ugly head when religion is brought up.

Who are you and I to decide their curriculum?

Uhh.. Is this real life? It's definitely not up to you or I to decide their curriculum, it should be up to experts of the subjects. I don't want people like you or me(laymen) to decide what is worthy of being taught- when that happens, you have unqualified administrators/parents with no actual education in the specific fields trying to change the curriculum. That's the entire creationism in science class movement, people entirely unqualified to make those types of decisions shouting that they deserve to make those types of decisions. Which makes your statement above pretty ironic, all things considered.

 

[Obsessed]

Your argument for teaching creationism in a science course. Since you won't specifically say exactly what you want taught, which is kind of telling, I am working under the assumption that you're talking about generic creationism.



That isn't necessarily true. The rule is, public schools will not show preferential treatment towards one religion over others.



You've lost me here. Skipping over the gay marriage stuff, what particularly perturbs you about keeping a non-scientific theory out of science class? Why can't that remain in philosophy or some elective? You haven't really made any argument for it, just "why not?"

I have asked you multiple times, what specifically would you like taught regarding creationism in science class. If you can't figure out or yourself what it is exactly that you're even asking for, I can't respond appropriately.



No one is disallowing kids to decide for themselves whether they want to believe in god or not. That's a straw man you've set up to make it appear like schools are actively preventing one from having faith. That's part of the ever pervasive persecution complex that rears its ugly head when religion is brought up.



Uhh.. Is this real life? It's definitely not up to you or I to decide their curriculum, it should be up to experts of the subjects. I don't want people like you or me(laymen) to decide what is worthy of being taught- when that happens, you have unqualified administrators/parents with no actual education in the specific fields trying to change the curriculum. That's the entire creationism in science class movement, people entirely unqualified to make those types of decisions shouting that they deserve to make those types of decisions. Which makes your statement above pretty ironic, all things considered.

I can't "multi quote" nor do I care too.

Your "response" was typical. No substance. You offered nothing.

You don't want Christianity taught in schools.
Correct?