Are Old Testament Stories Allegory or Literal History?

#276
#276
Septic said:
At least?

The universe is ~14,800,000,000 years old, the Earth is ~4,500,000,000 years old. Our species has been around for for about ~200,000 years. Why did it just choose to reveal itself through a middle eastern carpenter in the bronze age for ~33 years, 2,000 years ago?

I mean, the Chinese were so much further advanced - wouldn't their advanced society have been a better option for the creator of the universe to reveal himself?
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Posted as if FACT. Smh
 
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#278
#278
See, even God loves him some booze:

Comet Lovejoy appears to be a well-stocked bar in space | Fox News

That’s because the famous comet is releasing huge amounts of alcohol as well as a type of sugar in space, according to NASA. This marks the first time that ethyl alcohol, the same type found in alcoholic beverages, has been observed in a comet.

"We found that comet Lovejoy was releasing as much alcohol as in at least 500 bottles of wine every second during its peak activity," Nicolas Biver of the Paris Observatory, France and the lead author of a paper on the discovery published in Science Advances, said in a statement.
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#280
#280
Gramps said:
Zero. There were no such thing as Christians until Jesus was crucified and resurrected around 2000 years ago.
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I'm not sure how you can say that as if it's a fact. With God anything's possible, including very early Christians. After all, Adam and Eve were the first people, and they certainly knew God who is also Jesus Christ. Thus I'd call them Christians.

The real question is whether or not you think 78,000 BC happened.
 
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#281
#281
Deputy Fife said:
I'm not sure how you can say that as if it's a fact. With God anything's possible, including very early Christians. After all, Adam and Eve were the first people, and they certainly knew God who is also Jesus Christ. Thus I'd call them Christians.

The real question is whether or not you think 78,000 BC happened.
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Most Christians believe you are Christian when you accept a certain version of Christ. Other Christians and the rest of the world call anybody that follows Christ a Christian.

It just depends on your definition.
 
#282
#282
Deputy Fife said:
I'm not sure how you can say that as if it's a fact. With God anything's possible, including very early Christians. After all, Adam and Eve were the first people, and they certainly knew God who is also Jesus Christ. Thus I'd call them Christians.

The real question is whether or not you think 78,000 BC happened.
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I can very easily say that as a fact with sources to back it up.

A Christian is a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus. Christianity started around 2000 years ago, THAT IS FACT.

Stop diverting and bringing that weak sauce Fife. You spoke of life 78,000 BC. Lay some history on us. Tell us about life back then, back up your rhetoric or admit you randomly pulled a number and posted it with zero way to back it up. There is nothing wrong admitting you were wrong Barney. I have done it a few times on here.
 
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#283
#283
Gramps said:
I can very easily say that as a fact with sources to back it up.

A Christian is a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus. Christianity started around 2000 years ago, THAT IS FACT.

Stop diverting and bringing that weak sauce Fife. You spoke of life 78,000 BC. Lay some history on us. Tell us about life back then, back up your rhetoric or admit you randomly pulled a number and posted it with zero way to back it up. There is nothing wrong admitting you were wrong Barney. I have done it a few times on here.
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I only spoke of 78,000 BC as an example of why someone would prefer a certain religious story over another to the extent that accidents of place and time of birth play a huge role in the religious options available and the one that's ultimately chosen. The number was random, that's the point. Maybe they "worshipped" the sun as best they could, I don't know.
 
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#284
#284
Anything is possible with god, Gramps. There may have been some Christian bonobos who saw the future through prophetic visions. How can we say for sure there wasn't?
 
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#287
#287
Deputy Fife said:
I only spoke of 78,000 BC as an example of why someone would prefer a certain religious story over another to the extent that accidents of place and time of birth play a huge role in the religious options available and the one that's ultimately chosen. The number was random, that's the point. Maybe they "worshipped" the sun as best they could, I don't know.
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There are no records of any human life in Saudi Arabia in 78,000 BC ?

Man may have lived then, he may not have?
 
#288
#288
MercyPercy said:
What are you disputing here specifically? This should be enlightening.
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I am disputing it is fact that the universe is ~14,800,000,000 years old, the Earth is ~4,500,000,000 years old. Our species has been around for for about ~200,000 years.


It may be, it may not, we do not know, therefore it is not fact.
 
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#289
#289
Gramps said:
I can very easily say that as a fact with sources to back it up.

A Christian is a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus. Christianity started around 2000 years ago, THAT IS FACT.

Stop diverting and bringing that weak sauce Fife. You spoke of life 78,000 BC. Lay some history on us. Tell us about life back then, back up your rhetoric or admit you randomly pulled a number and posted it with zero way to back it up. There is nothing wrong admitting you were wrong Barney. I have done it a few times on here.
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No it's not. The fact is the definition is broader than that.

Christian | Define Christian at Dictionary.com
 
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#290
#290
Gramps said:
I am disputing it is fact that the universe is ~14,800,000,000 years old, the Earth is ~4,500,000,000 years old. Our species has been around for for about ~200,000 years.


It may be, it may not, we do not know, therefore it is not fact.
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Why do you think we don't know? Do you understand how those figures were achieved? Have you examined the evidence?

Now, be careful Gramps. You just said Christianity being created 2000 years ago is a fact, and you have evidence to back that up. Well, you weren't there back then. Neither was anyone else here. So how can we know for sure?

Oops.
 
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#291
#291
n_huffhines said:
No it's not. The fact is the definition is broader than that.

Christian | Define Christian at Dictionary.com
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Basically what I posted and you helped proved my point. There were no Christians before Christ was crucified and resurrected.

Your definition :


Christian
1.
of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings:
a Christian faith.

2.
of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ :
Spain is a Christian country.
 
#292
#292
MercyPercy said:
Why do you think we don't know? Do you understand how those figures were achieved? Have you examined the evidence?

Now, be careful Gramps. You just said Christianity being created 2000 years ago is a fact, and you have evidence to back that up. Well, you weren't there back then. Neither was anyone else here. So how can we know for sure?

Oops.
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There are plenty of records to back up when Christianity started Percy. You know that very well.
 
#293
#293
Gramps said:
Basically what I posted and you helped proved my point. There were no Christians before Christ was crucified and resurrected.

Your definition :


Christian
1.
of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings:
a Christian faith.

2.
of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ :
Spain is a Christian country.
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Not necessarily.

Mormons believe Christ is Jehovah, so technically they would call Moses a Christian. Consider someone like Isaiah who prophesied of Christ. I think you might even admit he's a Christian.
 
#294
#294
MercyPercy said:
Why do you think we don't know? Do you understand how those figures were achieved? Have you examined the evidence?
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I have no idea if the universe is ~14,800,000,000 years old, the Earth is ~4,500,000,000 years old and our species has been around for for about ~200,000 years.

It is beyond ridiculous for anyone to think for one second that man can date anything back in time billions of years with any type of certainty.
 
#295
#295
Gramps said:
There are plenty of records to back up when Christianity started Percy. You know that very well.
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Sure there are. A lot of evidence, just like there is a lot of evidence for the age of the earth, the universe, and our species. But of course, if you want to apply the strictest definition of "fact", as in, objective truth, to those numbers, then you must also apply that definition with the same severity to the age of Christianity. The evidence suggests 2000 years ago, but does that make it an objective truth?

Herein lies the problem. You have to be consistent with your use of the word fact if you are referring to objective truth. You can't have it both ways.
 
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#296
#296
Think the world of you Gramps, but you know you'd have as much luck teaching a cat to tap dance than having a rational discussion about religion with Mercy or Septic.
 
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#298
#298
n_huffhines said:
Not necessarily.

Mormons believe Christ is Jehovah, so technically they would call Moses a Christian. Consider someone like Isaiah who prophesied of Christ. I think you might even admit he's a Christian.
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There were no Christians before Christ walked this earth, was crucified and was resurrected. If you say thete was was show a credible source.

Moses and Isaiah were men of God and prophets. They prophesied of a new way coming, they were not followers of the new way.
 
#299
#299
MercyPercy said:
Sure there are. A lot of evidence, just like there is a lot of evidence for the age of the earth, the universe, and our species. But of course, if you want to apply the strictest definition of "fact", as in, objective truth, to those numbers, then you must also apply that definition with the same severity to the age of Christianity. The evidence suggests 2000 years ago, but does that make it an objective truth?

Herein lies the problem. You have to be consistent with your use of the word fact if you are referring to objective truth. You can't have it both ways.
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Have you ever heard of a calendar Percy?


Percy, do you actually think that man has the brains or ability to date anything with certainty to be let's say 10,500,000,000 years old? If you do you need to lay the bowl down and run as far from it as you can.
 
#300
#300
Gramps said:
There were no Christians before Christ walked this earth, was crucified and was resurrected. If you say thete was was show a credible source.

Moses and Isaiah were men of God and prophets. They prophesied of a new way coming, they were not followers of the new way.
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