Ukraine II: The Fight Against Russian Aggression

#851
#851
The content of the article doesn't exactly jibe with the hyperbole of the thread title.

It's also interesting to note that the author clearly accuses Russia of starting the trouble in Ukraine, something Ras and others have steadfastly refused to admit.
 
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#852
#852
MG1968 said:
The content of the article doesn't exactly jibe with the hyperbole of the thread title.

It's also interesting to note that the author clearly accuses Russia of starting the trouble in Ukraine, something Ras and others have steadfastly refused to admit.
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Regardless of what the author implies, I think it's been established that a US financed and conspired coup threw Ukraine into disarray. Russia reacted to this.

Only people that are completely in denial still refute this..
 
#853
#853
Pacer92 said:
Regardless of what the author implies, I think it's been established that a US financed and conspired coup threw Ukraine into disarray. Russia reacted to this.

Only people that are completely in denial still refute this..
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, when, in your opinion, was the last time Russia ever made a callous mistake or even started a crisis.

I want to know how far back in history I have to go in order to assess the method to your madness and try to make some sense of it.
 
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#854
#854
volprof said:
Just out of curiosity, when, in your opinion, was the last time Russia ever made a callous mistake or even started a crisis.

I want to know how far back in history I have to go in order to assess the method to your madness and try to make some sense of it.
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I won't get into an argument because I can tell you're itching for one.

Russia did not start the conflict in Ukraine. Even the American apologists know this...
 
#856
#856
Pacer92 said:
I won't get into an argument because I can tell you're itching for one.

Russia did not start the conflict in Ukraine. Even the American apologists know this...
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No, actually we don't.

As I explicated very clearly with facts in the Ukraine thread, the criminal Yany was elected by Ukrainians on a platform of integrating with Europe. (Now, if you think the desire for Europe to pool Ukraine away from Russian economic and political dominance a misstep, then fair enough, but this doesn't mean it necessarily caused the crisis.) Putin then bribed him and threatened tariffs and economic punishments on Ukraine (sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?) if it carried through with the popular desires of the majority of the Ukrainian people. The criminal Yany then reneged, and the Ukrainian people were pissed off, and rightfully so.

And thus the Maidan.

It wasn't no damn CIA coup. That's conspiracy nonsense, and as we all know very well, you're above that.

Seriously though, when's the last time you think Russia mostly complicit in a crisis? I promise I won't argue with you about it as a man of my word. I just want to get a better idea of how you think.
 
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#857
#857
MG1968 said:
The content of the article doesn't exactly jibe with the hyperbole of the thread title.

It's also interesting to note that the author clearly accuses Russia of starting the trouble in Ukraine, something Ras and others have steadfastly refused to admit.
Click to expand...

Sergey Lavrov was not in Kiev months before the Maidan with his operatives on the ground... that would be John Kerry. Crimea deciding to rejoin Russia was a democratic decision the people there willingly made.
 
#858
#858
Rasputin_Vol said:
Sergey Lavrov was not in Kiev months before the Maidan with his operatives on the ground... that would be John Kerry. Crimea deciding to rejoin Russia was a democratic decision the people there willingly made.
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No, just a few dozen FSB and SVR operatives serving in high-ranking positions in the Ukrainian SBU.

Of course they were all blind-sided by Nuland's cookies.
 
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#859
#859
MG1968 said:
The content of the article doesn't exactly jibe with the hyperbole of the thread title.
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The thread title and content of the story do indeed match... unless you think war-gaming a possible war with Russia in The Baltics is a good idea.
 
#860
#860
In 2009, four years before the Maidan, Russia launched its Zapad 2009 military exercises, involving some 70,000 troops. It simulated a defense of Belarus from an invasion coming from the Baltics and then simulated a first-strike, preemptive, limited nuclear attack on Warsaw (as a part of the Kremlin's idiotic notion of "nuclear de-escalation," I suppose).

Four years before the Maidan. Four years. Now, that's either some magnificent prescience on the part of Moscow, or the Kremlin was already preparing for possible negative outcomes to its eventual ruse in Ukraine. Luckily for the Kremlin, and for us all, its Ukrainian ruse to keep Ukraine permanently away from the West hasn't cost us a war...yet.
 
#861
#861
Pacer92 said:
Regardless of what the author implies, I think it's been established that a US financed and conspired coup threw Ukraine into disarray. Russia reacted to this.

Only people that are completely in denial still refute this..
Click to expand...

Yep, the US financed it...

With free cookies from Victoria Nuland.
 
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#862
#862
Grand Vol said:
Yep, the US financed it...

With free cookies from Victoria Nuland.
Click to expand...

scan9.jpg



nuland-in-ukraine.jpg
 
#863
#863
Grand Vol said:
Yep, the US financed it...

With free cookies from Victoria Nuland.
Click to expand...

Let's put Ukraine on the shelf for a moment and let me ask you just a simple question regarding the Baltics.

Do you think it is wise for us to even consider making plans to fight Russia in this region? How would you define "victory"?
 
#864
#864
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let's put Ukraine on the shelf for a moment and let me ask you just a simple question regarding the Baltics.

Do you think it is wise for us to even consider making plans to fight Russia in this region? How would you define "victory"?
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I hope the Pentagon has contingency plans for Iceland mounting an amphibious invasion of the United States. I see no problem with planning for every scenario no matter how realistic or unrealistic. Not to mention we have an obligation to the defense of the Baltic republics, so as an ally I would hope we have plans to defend our friends.
 
#865
#865
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let's put Ukraine on the shelf for a moment and let me ask you just a simple question regarding the Baltics.

Do you think it is wise for us to even consider making plans to fight Russia in this region? How would you define "victory"?
Click to expand...

Other than the fact the Baltics are part of NATO? And hopefully that would give the Russians pause for thought?

The Pentagon war games a lot of scenarios. I'm not sure how this one is different from the rest.

ETA: Yeah, what BH said.
 
#866
#866
The Maiden Revolution, sponsored by:

Victoria Nuland's cookies. Our cookies are so great you'd revolt against your own mother.

And by:

Dick Cheney and KBR. When you positively have to have a company profit from war time misery, don't trust those little guys. With a multi billion dollar profit guarantee, we'll make sure you don't get your money's worth.

And our Blue Ribbon sponsor:

The CIA. Tired of your old regime? Let our experts help you out. With over sixty years in the business, we guarantee a government change almost overnight. Call now to reserve our special "neighboring nation insurgency" package at no extra charge!
 
#869
#869
Burhead said:
I hope the Pentagon has contingency plans for Iceland mounting an amphibious invasion of the United States. I see no problem with planning for every scenario no matter how realistic or unrealistic. Not to mention we have an obligation to the defense of the Baltic republics, so as an ally I would hope we have plans to defend our friends.
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F all of that.

We are opening ourselves up to be involved in far too many altercations around the globe. At some point, we are going to have to scale back. But esp. planning on a fight with Russia in The Baltics... no gain can come out of that for us. Nothing.
 
#870
#870
Grand Vol said:
Other than the fact the Baltics are part of NATO? And hopefully that would give the Russians pause for thought?

The Pentagon war games a lot of scenarios. I'm not sure how this one is different from the rest.

ETA: Yeah, what BH said.
Click to expand...

Let Britain, France and the rest of Europe handle it. I think we've done enough over there.
 
#871
#871
Rasputin_Vol said:
F all of that.

We are opening ourselves up to be involved in far too many altercations around the globe. At some point, we are going to have to scale back. But esp. planning on a fight with Russia in The Baltics... no gain can come out of that for us. Nothing.
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So you have a problem with preparation for an event that may or may not take place? Yet you have no response for the numerous "drills" Russia has been doing in both our airspace and the UK? Why do you always have outrage over our actions but never express it over theirs?
 
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#872
#872
volfanhill said:
So you have a problem with preparation for an event that may or may not take place? Yet you have no response for the numerous "drills" Russia has been doing in both our airspace and the UK? Why do you always have outrage over our actions but never express it over theirs?
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Russia doesn't have military bases scattered on nearly every country on the globe...

My argument is that enough is enough. We can no longer afford to invest (money or lives) to be a part of these military alliances.
 
#873
#873
Russia spans half the globe and occupies or borders the most vitally important geostrategic spot on Earth. It doesn't need any foreign bases.

The US, isolated (yet admittedly secure) in its geostrategic backwaters, on the other hand, does.

That's also the primary reason why the US invested in the world's finest navy while Russia never really cared that much about its naval forces (because it didn't have to and didn't really need them).
 
#874
#874
Rasputin_Vol said:
F all of that.

We are opening ourselves up to be involved in far too many altercations around the globe. At some point, we are going to have to scale back. But esp. planning on a fight with Russia in The Baltics... no gain can come out of that for us. Nothing.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you would condone Russia making a move at the Baltics?
 
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