Declined Penalties??

#4
#4
You take the penalty you give them an extra down for someone to do something stupid like.........oh IDK pass inference on an uncatchable ball.
 
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#5
#5
DaddyChad said:
You take the penalty you give them an extra down for someone to do something stupid like.........oh IDK pass inference on an uncatchable ball.
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So basically by declining all the penalties they were showing their team they had no faith in them to get it right? Id play better too...

I cant recall a game in my football history where there were so many declined penalties.
 
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#6
#6
I disagreed with 2 of them, if I recall correctly. One was a tackle for no gain at the 10, 2nd and 10. The illegal procedure penalty would have made it 1st and 15 at the 5. At the time we were getting pressure and I felt like being backed up against their goal line would have made them more conservative, leading to a 3 and out. I believe that may have been their first TD drive, but don't recall for sure.

The other was a holding call, maybe at midfield or so. Would have been 1st and 20, instead of 2nd and 11 or so. Really thought the 20 would have been tough, but as one poster mentioned, that was a 4 down drive anyway and Butch was likely trying to reduce opportunity for disaster.

AV
 
#7
#7
RagingOrange said:
So basically by declining all the penalties they were showing their team they had no faith in them to get it right? Id play better too...

I cant recall a game in my football history where there were so many declined penalties.
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The first part of your statement is stupid I don't even care to address it but will for the hell of it. Forcing a longer down and distance but more downs isn't not having faith in your defense. Believing your defense can get the job done on third and 7 or 8 is faith in your defense.

There were two iffy declined penalties that I remember the rest were fairly obvious declines.
 
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#8
#8
one in particular....OK was already at 1st and 15. They committed another holding penalty which would have made it 1st and 25. Butch declined it. He thought 2nd and 15 was better than 1st and 25. On second down they gained 13 yards, then converted on third down. I was absolutely baffled by that decision.
 
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#9
#9
Are any folks questioning Jones decision to decline penalties and at the same time complaining that he didn't have confidence in the team?:crazy::thud:
 
#10
#10
MedicT said:
Are any folks questioning Jones decision to decline penalties and at the same time complaining that he didn't have confidence in the team?:crazy::thud:
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Actually that is exactly what it infers to a player. Mr. Player you only have to stop them one more time instead of two if I don't accept this penalty. You can do that. You may not be able to do it twice. Think about it.
 
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#12
#12
Most penalties, especially holding, allows the team to replay the down. Depending on the situation, it could be better to decline and deny the offense another chance. It's very situational. I believe there were three declined penalties. I agreed with two of them and was on the fence about the third.
 
#15
#15
Declining holding penalties is dumb unless it's 4th down. The chance of a team making up the ten yards is low. It shows you don't believe you defense can hold a team to under ten yards a play.
 
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#16
#16
Would make better sense if we were behind and didn't want Oklahoma an extra down to run clock however as we know the reverse was true.
 
#18
#18
It was weird. Jones said he takes responsibility for the loss on Saturday but what he never said was what HE needed to correct. I thought the declined penalties were strange. I have never seen anything like that before. Jones if you pay such close attention to your analytics, then you should see that you are suppose to accept those penalties and drive them back further. Makes no sense.
 
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#20
#20
Football is a game of real estate..If you can push a team back, push em back. It's not debatable.

Remember the old cheer...Push em back...push em back.... push em back...Way back!

Of course Jone's version could be...
Push em back only if the chart says too.
 
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#21
#21
Vols4us said:
Actually that is exactly what it infers to a player. Mr. Player you only have to stop them one more time instead of two if I don't accept this penalty. You can do that. You may not be able to do it twice. Think about it.
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So you don't trust Mr Player to defend 15 yards on two downs but you do trust him to defend 25 on three? That's just stupid. It communicates nothing at all to the team. A team as good as ours on defense should be trusted to get off the field in two downs when the distance is 15 yards.
 
#22
#22
I have to agree declining those penalties which were spot of the foul for big negative yardage is hard to grasp. The further back the more minutes off the clock and brings up the chance of a turnover. It was baffling when up two and one td.
 
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#23
#23
This would seem to be a no-brainer: accept the penalties.

The metrics are pretty simple. Oklahoma averaged 4 yards per play against us (348 yds total offense on 87 offensive plays). But our coaches wouldn't know that yet, because the game was still in progress. The only 2015 metrics they had were from the Akron-OK game, when Oklahoma averaged 7.2 yards per play (539 yds total offense on 75 plays).

So any penalty that gives them a repeat on a down but costs them 10 yards, it is in our favor to accept the penalty. Their own production says they likely won't make up all of the lost yardage.

In the 2nd & 14 vs 1st & 24 case, the Akron metrics says they should make 14.4 yards on 2nd and 3rd down, and win a 1st down, if we declined ... but would gain 21.6 yards on the first three downs and come up ~2 yards short if we accepted. The metrics clearly pointed toward accepting the penalty.

So I do not know why Butch & Co were declining holding penalties Saturday. It didn't seem to make sense.

Note: I personally only noticed two declined penalties. Some comments in the thread make it sound like there were multiple...anyone know, definitively, how many there were? Can anyone point at 3 or more, on the tape?
 
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#24
#24
Just now getting to follow up on this.

If my statement of not having faith in defense is stupid then Ill take being a dumba**...because, I was just asking a question and summarizing thought from an answer.

However, if I were a player, it would demoralize me, because it would send a few subliminal messages:

1) We want the ball back to our offense sooner, even though they are inefficient, tells me you don't trust we can handle an extra down, from farther down the field.

2) Farther down the field brings more long yardage situations and opens up the opponent to pressure induced errors, despite the extra down. We dont think you can capitalize or induce those errors.

3) Football is a game of inches, and Ill take repeat third down with 15 to go any day before I'll take 4th down and 5 to go for a fieldgoal or a possible 1st down conversion.

#3 Especially when OU ran the ball well, especially with the quarterback keeper option they were running.

They WERE running it well, because we were not staying on our assignments while keeping an eye peeled for that option.

They took a play out of our book and used their quarter back as heavy leverage....while WE apparently forgot we had a quarter back who could run.

The latter I believe was on coaching. Cut Dobbs loose and let him ball.
 
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