Faster player on the team....

#51
#51
After reading about 40 times I'm now skeptical of every fast time I hear about. The stopwatch that most people use is considered to be very inconsistant, and the electronic 40 yard dash is normally only found at the nfl combine.

The reason I've become skeptical is that one the fastest sprints ever recorded is said to be from Canadian Ben Johnson at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul. Johnson, who had his record stripped due to positive steriod tests, ran the 100 meters that day in 9.79 seconds. Broken down into 10 meter increments Johnson ran 50 meters (about 54 yards) in 5.52 seconds, and after many reviews he was said to run the first 40 yards in 4.38 seconds. Sprinters start at the shot of the gun, which was said to have cost Johnson .25-.3 seconds meaning he ran what is called a "football forty" somewhere between 4.08 and 4.13 seconds.

But remeber, this was on a track in spikes at the biggest stage in the world being chased by the fastest people in the world on a perfect day for sprinting by a world-class sprinter on steroids. See why I'm skeptical now? Everyone knows people lie about 40 times, but I think its gotten a little ridiculous. Devin Hester couldn't run faster than a 4.5 electronic 40 at the combine, and last year Johnnie Lee Higgins of UTEP was said to run a 4.29 at the UTEP pro day, but in 6 tries at the combine couldn't run faster than a 4.53.
 
#52
#52
pricevol5 said:
After reading about 40 times I'm now skeptical of every fast time I hear about. The stopwatch that most people use is considered to be very inconsistant, and the electronic 40 yard dash is normally only found at the nfl combine.

The reason I've become skeptical is that one the fastest sprints ever recorded is said to be from Canadian Ben Johnson at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul. Johnson, who had his record stripped due to positive steriod tests, ran the 100 meters that day in 9.79 seconds. Broken down into 10 meter increments Johnson ran 50 meters (about 54 yards) in 5.52 seconds, and after many reviews he was said to run the first 40 yards in 4.38 seconds. Sprinters start at the shot of the gun, which was said to have cost Johnson .25-.3 seconds meaning he ran what is called a "football forty" somewhere between 4.08 and 4.13 seconds.

But remeber, this was on a track in spikes at the biggest stage in the world being chased by the fastest people in the world on a perfect day for sprinting by a world-class sprinter on steroids. See why I'm skeptical now? Everyone knows people lie about 40 times, but I think its gotten a little ridiculous. Devin Hester couldn't run faster than a 4.5 electronic 40 at the combine, and last year Johnnie Lee Higgins of UTEP was said to run a 4.29 at the UTEP pro day, but in 6 tries at the combine couldn't run faster than a 4.53.
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Good post. I've cited a lot of those things in previous posts on the subject. Outside of politics and religion 40 times sometimes seem to be the most wildly disputed thing on the net. It's crazy. Whenever I hear somebody's wild time I ask "Where? Timed by who?" and "So why aren't those times showing up at the combine, where a 4.35 is considered blazing?"

Anyway, good post.

On another issue can we start showing a bit more respect for the phrase "world class speed"? If you haven't clocked an official 10.05 or better you aren't even in consideration. Like another poster said earlier, as fast as some of the names we've dropped here are LSU's Holliday has a 10.02 to his credit which is a whole .32 faster than O'Neals best. And when you consider the REAL "world class" guys are running sub 9.8's you see how silly it is to make that comparison.
 
#56
#56
hndog609 said:
Good post. I've cited a lot of those things in previous posts on the subject. Outside of politics and religion 40 times sometimes seem to be the most wildly disputed thing on the net. It's crazy. Whenever I hear somebody's wild time I ask "Where? Timed by who?" and "So why aren't those times showing up at the combine, where a 4.35 is considered blazing?"

Anyway, good post.

On another issue can we start showing a bit more respect for the phrase "world class speed"? If you haven't clocked an official 10.05 or better you aren't even in consideration. Like another poster said earlier, as fast as some of the names we've dropped here are LSU's Holliday has a 10.02 to his credit which is a whole .32 faster than O'Neals best. And when you consider the REAL "world class" guys are running sub 9.8's you see how silly it is to make that comparison.
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Thanks, I started to look around out of curiosity and it really is amusing some of the 40 times that guys claim. Maybe we should start distinguishing "world class" from "football class" speed because they are two different things. Even "world class" guys are getting caught up with the hype. I read somewhere that our own Justin Gatlin ran a 3.8 forty yard dash on football surface. i don't know about you HN, but that's one of the more ridiculous things I've ever heard.
 
#59
#59
pricevol5 said:
Thanks, I started to look around out of curiosity and it really is amusing some of the 40 times that guys claim. Maybe we should start distinguishing "world class" from "football class" speed because they are two different things. Even "world class" guys are getting caught up with the hype. I read somewhere that our own Justin Gatlin ran a 3.8 forty yard dash on football surface. i don't know about you HN, but that's one of the more ridiculous things I've ever heard.
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Yeah, 3.8, and on a football surface no less, just doesn't make sense. I think there's a wall where even if you are that fast you just can't accelerate beyond a certain point. Hope I don't bore you but for instance:

Maurice Green (a very fast starter) ran a 9.73 100m in Athens and it took 1.58 sec for just the first 10 meters. (and yes that includes subtracting the .13 RT making it more football-like) by 20 meters (21.87 yards) you're up to 2.63 seconds and 3.54 for right at 33 yards. 7 yards to go and only .26 seconds left for a 3.8? Remember, these guys aren't hitting their fastest splits 'til 50 or even 60 meters. And on grass? Forget it. On the other hand if you factor in the timer being a bit slow with the finger, say .2, that puts you in the 4.0 range. Still don't see that on grass but on a track that's at least interesting.

Is there any chance we could talk some of these guys (Powell, Gatlin, etc) to show up to the combine and run? I mean, there are people would pay money to see that.
 
#61
#61
kptvol said:
Stewart was fine at safety. He understood the coverage, made limited mistakes, and didn't miss a lot of tackles. Morley just lined up deep and did whatever he felt like back there. That's why almost every QB we faced threw multiple TDs in his direction.
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Your definition of fine is obviously much different than mine, agree Stewart was more consistant in his assignments than Morley but his play at safety was far from fine as was Morleys IMO.
 
#63
#63
kptvol said:
Leonard Scott never did that.
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I know he ran back a bunch on my Playstation but I honestly don't remember if he did it in real life or not. All I do remember is hearing every year that we have this track star receiver who was going to be burning defenses all year long and then .....nothing
 
#65
#65
hndog609 said:
Yeah, 3.8, and on a football surface no less, just doesn't make sense. I think there's a wall where even if you are that fast you just can't accelerate beyond a certain point. Hope I don't bore you but for instance:

Maurice Green (a very fast starter) ran a 9.73 100m in Athens and it took 1.58 sec for just the first 10 meters. (and yes that includes subtracting the .13 RT making it more football-like) by 20 meters (21.87 yards) you're up to 2.63 seconds and 3.54 for right at 33 yards. 7 yards to go and only .26 seconds left for a 3.8? Remember, these guys aren't hitting their fastest splits 'til 50 or even 60 meters. And on grass? Forget it. On the other hand if you factor in the timer being a bit slow with the finger, say .2, that puts you in the 4.0 range. Still don't see that on grass but on a track that's at least interesting.

Is there any chance we could talk some of these guys (Powell, Gatlin, etc) to show up to the combine and run? I mean, there are people would pay money to see that.
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I'd love to see Donovan Bailey in his prime run the 40, I think he was the quickest starter I even saw. I think it would be interesting to see guys like Powell, Wallace Spearmon, Gatlin, and Tyson Gay run the 40 yard dash at the combine and put all those rumors of football players running under 4.3s to rest.
 
#66
#66
pricevol5 said:
I'd love to see Donovan Bailey in his prime run the 40, I think he was the quickest starter I even saw. I think it would be interesting to see guys like Powell, Wallace Spearmon, Gatlin, and Tyson Gay run the 40 yard dash at the combine and put all those rumors of football players running under 4.3s to rest.
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With you all the way on that.
 
#67
#67
pricevol5 said:
I'd love to see Donovan Bailey in his prime run the 40, I think he was the quickest starter I even saw. I think it would be interesting to see guys like Powell, Wallace Spearmon, Gatlin, and Tyson Gay run the 40 yard dash at the combine and put all those rumors of football players running under 4.3s to rest.
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Two Words: Willie Gault
 
#69
#69
I'm almost certain he did lead the nation in KO return average one year, then disappeared the next. But I don't even know where to start looking for confirmation of that
 
#70
#70
wombat7477 said:
I'm almost certain he did lead the nation in KO return average one year, then disappeared the next. But I don't even know where to start looking for confirmation of that
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His best year was '99 when he did lead the SEC with 27 ypr but that was only good for 11th nationally.
 
#71
#71
Regardless of who has the fastest clock time, I like Berry with the ball in his hands the most!:)

Although, I'm quite happy they are all Vols!
 
#73
#73
Again, as a former track guy the whole 40 thing is so out of control. There are guys who train everyday of their lives to just race a 100m dash, just like there are guys who do that in order to be professional kickers. That's a skill not common to most other athletes. Football players are NOT as fast a professional sprinters. There is no NFL player that's even remotely close to being "world class" in terms of sprinting ability. Holliday from LSU is truly a world class sprinter, being the huge exception to the rule.

Additionally, if you hear someone tell you that they've heard somebody runs a 3.x 40 yard dash, they are clueless. You can break down splits from pro sprinters all day and try to come up with some kind of calculation, but nobody has ever run a 3.x 40. Being football fast is totally different than being pro-sprinter fast.

All that matters in football is, are you faster than everybody else? If so, you're really really fast. Relative speed is all that matters in football. Actual speed is irrelevant.
 
#74
#74
Mullet said:
Again, as a former track guy the whole 40 thing is so out of control. There are guys who train everyday of their lives to just race a 100m dash, just like there are guys who do that in order to be professional kickers. That's a skill not common to most other athletes. Football players are NOT as fast a professional sprinters. There is no NFL player that's even remotely close to being "world class" in terms of sprinting ability. Holliday from LSU is truly a world class sprinter, being the huge exception to the rule.

Additionally, if you hear someone tell you that they've heard somebody runs a 3.x 40 yard dash, they are clueless. You can break down splits from pro sprinters all day and try to come up with some kind of calculation, but nobody has ever run a 3.x 40. Being football fast is totally different than being pro-sprinter fast.

All that matters in football is, are you faster than everybody else? If so, you're really really fast. Relative speed is all that matters in football. Actual speed is irrelevant.
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I agree with everything except for the 'no one has ever run a 3.x 40.' That should probably be 'no one has ever run an officially timed 3.x 40 on grass.'

I know almost all of those stories about people running 40s in the 3.x are exaggerated, but i wouldn't rule it out of the realm of possibility for someone to run. It also depends on if you are going to break down how fast a track runner ran the first 40% (give or take) of a 100 meter, calculating gun time and being on a track and not a field (but you know all this much better than i...)
 
#75
#75
Mullet said:
Again, as a former track guy the whole 40 thing is so out of control. There are guys who train everyday of their lives to just race a 100m dash, just like there are guys who do that in order to be professional kickers. That's a skill not common to most other athletes. Football players are NOT as fast a professional sprinters. There is no NFL player that's even remotely close to being "world class" in terms of sprinting ability. Holliday from LSU is truly a world class sprinter, being the huge exception to the rule.

Additionally, if you hear someone tell you that they've heard somebody runs a 3.x 40 yard dash, they are clueless. You can break down splits from pro sprinters all day and try to come up with some kind of calculation, but nobody has ever run a 3.x 40. Being football fast is totally different than being pro-sprinter fast.

All that matters in football is, are you faster than everybody else? If so, you're really really fast. Relative speed is all that matters in football. Actual speed is irrelevant.
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As I've posted earlier I'm pretty much with you on all this although it's hard to argue that "actual" speed goes a long way when competing with others "relative" speed. Just to play devil's advocate here what do you think of the football arguement that over a distance as short as 40y where true top speed really isn't that important the sprinter/footballer gap is actually smaller? Football players don't train and specialize for track distances. Such disparity is even seen among sprinters as out of the top 100m guys (Powell, Greene, Bailey, Surin, Gay, Burrell & Gatlin all went 9.85 or better) only Greene, Surin & Gatlin were also elite at the shorter 60m (6.45 or better) and only one out of any of them is elite at 200m. (Gay)

So, in theory anyway, perhaps there are some football players that over a distance as short as 40y really could be on par with elite sprinters. (Not arguing the point, just found the premise intriguing)
 
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