Former President Jimmy Carter has cancer

[Cdywolfe]

So you like to enjoy the rights earned by the blood of others but when the sh*t hits the fan you will run for cover in your mommy's arms.

You can kiss my a$$!

Sigh...

I'm sure I won't get a real answer, as I never do but lets see... Let's pretend the Germans would've come across the Atlantic and subjugated 100 million gun owners. Even though they were incapable of traveling the 15 miles to do the same to Britain, we'll pretend I'd be typing this is German if it weren't for WW2 veterans.

Since then... How have the veterans of America's many conflicts protected, or even earned as you said, me any rights? What rights that I currently possess would I not have had the U.S. not invaded Korea? Vietnam? Iraq (either time)? Afghanistan? Specifics would be nice...

I'm 31 years old and the only rights I've seen taken (hard to say they were taken considering how quickly we rolled over) were by the U.S. Government.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Whether or not the US should have been in Vietnam and SE Asia, those that were called but instead ran off to Canada left open spots that were filled by others... many of those never made it back home alive, so Carter was most likely wrong to forgive the new Canadians. Eh?

 

[Cdywolfe]

I often wonder if people actually think about the things they say. For the most part, the people who can't stop beating chest about how awesomely free America is are the same ones who think that people who simply didn't want to fight a war that had absolutely nothing to do with them should have to suffer prison and/or ostracism.

I mean... Do they realize that those two beliefs contradict each other?

It's crazy... I remember growing up thinking Muhammad Ali was a coward for dodging the draft. The thing that's now obvious is that it took an insane amount of courage to do what he did. Think about it... He was the heavy weight champion. Do you really think there's even the slimmest chance he ever see any real combat? He could've done his time knowing he'd be taken care of and returned to boxing as a war hero. Instead he stood by his principles and lost 3 years from his prime as a result.

 

[Cdywolfe]

Whether or not the US should have been in Vietnam and SE Asia, those that were called but instead ran off to Canada left open spots that were filled by others... many of those never made it back home alive, so Carter was most likely wrong to forgive the new Canadians. Eh?

I feel like that's such a backwards way of thinking. Why not turn the politicians who sent them over there into fugitives?

Let's say we have a couple of pickpockets who decide they're stealing 10 wallets tonight. No matter how may tries it takes, they won't stop till they've stolen 10 but no matter what won't continue after.

Now let's say that throughout the night, there were a couple of guys who were somehow able to see it coming and avoid being pick pocketed. If they'd just played along and let their wallet be stolen, the the people who got robbed later in the night wouldn't have. So is it the people who avoided the robbery's fault that the last couple who actually got robbed did?

No... That's an insanely asinine way of thinking. It's the damned pick-pocketer's fault. The same way that the young men who died in Vietnam's deaths are on the politicians who sent them there against their will, not the few who dodged the draft.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Didn't the new Canadians have other options? Couldn't they have joined the Peace Corp or the National Guard? They chose to leave the country... don't see why they were invited back. Choosing to be Canadians came with a price and Carter decided that they didn't have to pay it.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I feel like that's such a backwards way of thinking. Why not turn the politicians who sent them over there into fugitives?

Let's say we have a couple of pickpockets who decide they're stealing 10 wallets tonight. No matter how may tries it takes, they won't stop till they've stolen 10 but no matter what won't continue after.

Now let's say that throughout the night, there were a couple of guys who were somehow able to see it coming and avoid being pick pocketed. If they'd just played along and let their wallet be stolen, the the people who got robbed later in the night wouldn't have. So is it the people who avoided the robbery's fault that the last couple who actually got robbed did?

No... That's an insanely asinine way of thinking. It's the damned pick-pocketer's fault. The same way that the young men who died in Vietnam's deaths are on the politicians who sent them there against their will, not the few who dodged the draft.

Dumb analogy comparing a lost wallet to a lost life. But yes. They way that you've outlined it... those avoiding being pick pocketed are responsible too if they knew that by avoiding being victims they are creating another victim. But nobody pick pocketing has an exact quota and even if they did, no potential victim would be aware of it. Whereas the draft dodgers absolutely knew that a certain number will be taken by Selective Service. Their choices included obeying the law, face charges by not, or giving up on being part of the country with that law. Others died as a direct result of their choice and then Carter said "never mind... come on back". Living in Canada isn't so horrible compared to returning from Vietnam in a box.

 

[Cdywolfe]

I love how you keep calling them Canadians. Cause if you ain't willing to give your life to travel around the planet and kill people you've never met simply because someone else you've never met orders you to then, you sure as hell ain't American. Am I right fellas? I know I sure as hell don't want people like that living in my neighborhood.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

His presidential library is actually one of the better/nicer ones. If you need to burn an hour in ATL, it's not a bad way to do it

 

[n_huffhines]

So you like to enjoy the rights earned by the blood of others but when the sh*t hits the fan you will run for cover in your mommy's arms.

You can kiss my a$$!

**** didn't hit the fan though. This wasn't a war worth fighting.

Somehow tens of thousands of ypung boys die unnecessarily and you are mad at the people who didn't want to die. You aren't mad at the people responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.

 

[Biopsyman]

I remember hiim carrying his own luggage off air force 1.. Strange

 

[Gramps]

I am merely relating my personal experience from the 1950's and 60's. You know, attending school with blacks, playing little league baseball with them, as employees for my parents' businesses., etc. I was under the impression that they were pretty much normal with darker skin.

I was aware that they didn't sit in the same seats as we did in the theater, and didn't eat in the restaurants, but my family treated them like they treated everyone else. What you have read would be more accurate, I'm sure. Maybe in the deep South.

You attending school with blacks in the 1950"s ?

 

[Cdywolfe]

**** didn't hit the fan though. This wasn't a war worth fighting.

Somehow tens of thousands of ypung boys die unnecessarily and you are mad at the people who didn't want to die. You aren't mad at the people responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.

No... When somebody gets shot. Instead of blaming the guy who fired the gun, let's instead blame the guy who stepped out of the bullet's trajectory. They're clearly the one to blame cause if they if they hadn't of moved, the bullet would've hit them instead.

 

[Cdywolfe]

Dumb analogy comparing a lost wallet to a lost life. But yes. They way that you've outlined it... those avoiding being pick pocketed are responsible too if they knew that by avoiding being victims they are creating another victim. But nobody pick pocketing has an exact quota and even if they did, no potential victim would be aware of it. Whereas the draft dodgers absolutely knew that a certain number will be taken by Selective Service. Their choices included obeying the law, face charges by not, or giving up on being part of the country with that law. Others died as a direct result of their choice and then Carter said "never mind... come on back". Living in Canada isn't so horrible compared to returning from Vietnam in a box.

Legality... Really?

The mind of a slave asks "is it legal?"
The mind of a free person asks "is it right?"

America is still the land of the free, right?

 

[Gramps]

One advantage of being the apparent "oldest fart" on here is having lived through Carter's presidency as a CFO and a Veteran. Carter had many problems.

The main thing he did that no President should ever do, was to give complete amnesty to all the cowards that fled to Canada during the Vietnam war. To me, that in itself, makes him the worst president in modern history.

What are your feelings about President Ford?

In 1974 Ford offered amnesty to draft dodgers and deserters during the Vietnam war . One had to agreed to reaffirm their allegiance to the United States and serve two years working in a public service job.

Carter fulfilled a campaign promise, something not done today by most politicians. He promised to pardon draft dodgers as a way of putting the war and the bitter divisions it caused firmly in the past. Carter did not pardon the deserters.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I love how you keep calling them Canadians. Cause if you ain't willing to give your life to travel around the planet and kill people you've never met simply because someone else you've never met orders you to then, you sure as hell ain't American. Am I right fellas? I know I sure as hell don't want people like that living in my neighborhood.

I'm calling them Canadians because that is what they chose to be. Then they wanted to be Americans again once the heat was off. The liberal ****ies then said never mind.

Why didn't they join the National Guard or the Peace Corp?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Legality... Really?

The mind of a slave asks "is it legal?"
The mind of a free person asks "is it right?"

America is still the land of the free, right?

Funny that you bring up slaves. It was mainly whites fleeing to Canada which directly resulted in more blacks dying in Vietnam while taking their spots.

 

[orangeluvr]

I know he'll never be thought of as a good president, and, honestly, maybe he wasn't.

I think he inherited a bad situation, didn't seem to do much with it, and then God himself, Ronald Reagan came walking in, although it took Reagan some time as well.

Whatever kind of president he was (and honestly, I'd need to know more about his Congress; if it was anything like Obama's terms, then I give Carter a free pass), I've heard him giving interviews recently on radio like NPR.

At 90-something, the man sounds more sane, rational, thoughtful, and all-together there than nearly all the candidates currently running for the Presidency, on either side.

Reagan walked into a $1T national debt and walked out tripling it to $3T . This after vowing to check government growth. :blink:

 

[Gramps]

I'm calling them Canadians because that is what they chose to be. Then they wanted to be Americans again once the heat was off. The liberal ****ies then said never mind.

Why didn't they join the National Guard or the Peace Corp?

What do you call the guys that enrolled in college to avoid the draft?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

What do you call the guys that enrolled in college to avoid the draft?

I'd say that they legally avoided, not evaded, their obligation as a US citizen. That was an option too. I purposely left that off as many didn't have the means or intellect to take that route.

Joining the National Guard was an option. Joining the Peace Corp was an option. Fleeing the country was an option. Being prosecuted was an option. Serving when called was an option. There was a price for choosing each option. Carter refunded the new Canadians.

 

[Gramps]

I'd say that they legally avoided, not evaded, their obligation as a US citizen. That was an option too. I purposely left that off as many didn't have the means or intellect to take that route.

Joining the National Guard was an option. Joining the Peace Corp was an option. Fleeing the country was an option. Being prosecuted was an option. Serving when called was an option. There was a price for choosing each option. Carter refunded the new Canadians.

You seem to be forgetting Ford not only offered the draft dodgers amnesty, he also offered it to the deserters. Carter did not go that far.

 

[1972 Grad]

You attending school with blacks in the 1950"s ?

You must have missed the part where I said "1950's AND 60's."

 

[Cdywolfe]

I'm calling them Canadians because that is what they chose to be. Then they wanted to be Americans again once the heat was off. The liberal ****ies then said never mind.

Why didn't they join the National Guard or the Peace Corp?

Let's say I send you a letter stating that I've started a war and need soldiers. You you've been chosen to be one and if don't comply I'll send men with guns to cage you. Now you don't know me or the people I'm asking you to go kill, so you' obviously don't want to fight my war. You don't want to be caged either though so you run.

Would it be even remotely accurate for me to say where ever you ran to is where you chose to be? Chosing to do something and being forced to due to lack of reasonable alternatives aren't really the same thing.

 

[Cdywolfe]

Funny that you bring up slaves. It was mainly whites fleeing to Canada which directly resulted in more blacks dying in Vietnam while taking their spots.

Funny that you think the word slave has an exclusive connection to any particular race.

 

[n_huffhines]

Funny that you bring up slaves. It was mainly whites fleeing to Canada which directly resulted in more blacks dying in Vietnam while taking their spots.

What?!!

 

[hog88]

Let's say I send you a letter stating that I've started a war and need soldiers. You you've been chosen to be one and if don't comply I'll send men with guns to cage you. Now you don't know me or the people I'm asking you to go kill, so you' obviously don't want to fight my war. You don't want to be caged either though so you run.

Would it be even remotely accurate for me to say where ever you ran to is where you chose to be? Chosing to do something and being forced to due to lack of reasonable alternatives aren't really the same thing.

I'd laugh. Just who the hell does this guy think he is, the government?