Recruiting forum off topic thread (merged)

[Glitch]

in the end, the aborting of an unborn fetus before 12 weeks gestation morally troubles me less than the suffering and slaughter of of a fully grown and undeniably living animal. i like neither and would prefer that neither were necessary. however i find it funny that some would be so opposed to abortion on grounds that life is sacred while eating chick-fil-a.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

We were given the earth to care for and to use. It is our responsibility to care for the animals but we are also given them to eat. Mankind is set above the animals because we are each special and made in God's image.

 

[Ashevolle]

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

We were given the earth to care for and to use. It is our responsibility to care for the animals but we are also given them to eat. Mankind is set above the animals because we are each special and made in God's image.

i dont believe in your god, so i respectfully disagree with you.

 

[Ashevolle]

Soooo...how about some dog farts. Or maybe someone would like to give us their workout tips.

bodyweight exercises on high intensity intervals, imo

 

[Mick]

in the end, the aborting of an unborn fetus before 12 weeks gestation morally troubles me less than the suffering and slaughter of of a fully grown and undeniably living animal. i like neither and would prefer that neither were necessary. however i find it funny that some would be so opposed to abortion on grounds that life is sacred while eating chick-fil-a.

A person needs to be thankful for whatever they eat. Everyone needs a garden and some need a gun to hunt and keep the coons out of the garden. They will not get my corn again. That's all I'm going to say about fast food.

 

[engineerVOL]

i dont believe in your god, so i respectfully disagree with you.

Which means you have an alternate perspective then. Founded on something other than God. one which you have truths to all things. Or you've chosen to believe something you've not seen. You actually have to believe in God. I don't believe you that you don't believe in Him. It's impossible. Not all will follow Him though..

 

[BaldBiker]

I know I'm going to regret this.....


Sodom and Gomorrah......were there no innocent children there? I mean, regardless of what the adults were doing the children (especially the babies) were innocent, right?

The flood....Eight people saved out of everyone on earth. I wonder how many babies drowned. They must have done something terrible to deserve that.

Abraham and Isacc. While Isacc wasn't a baby, Abraham was asked to kill his own son. He was only stopped when he was actually about to do it. That story always seemed strange to me. If life is sacred, shouldn't the appropriate thing have been utter refusal to take the life of his son?

We love to sing the song "Joshua fit the battle of Jherico"....because it's a catchy tune. After the walls came tumbling down however......everyone in the city was killed. Those evil men, women and CHILDREN (which I have to assume means babies too).

Now.....let's move to todays topic. So a woman gets raped and is pregnant by said rapist. According to some of you, she should have to suffer through nine months of pregnancy, knowing she is carrying her rapists baby.

Does that not lesson the value of her life? "M'am we know you were raped, but we're going to need you to suffer through nine more months of indignity and have this baby".

My personal belief is that 90% or more of abortions should be illegal, but there have to be exceptions. Rape.....medical (mother has choice of losing baby or dying herself <---have real life experience with this one)...baby is going to suffer until it dies on it's own. So the problem I see with the folks saying they are pro life is.......if you agree with any of the above reasons for aborting....you are in fact pro choice. In these cases, I think that is reasonable.

A lot of you that may disagree with me on this are posters I respect a lot. My opinion of you does not change because we disagree. :good!:


Now that I've covered myself in gasoline.....strike the match, I'm ready for the flaming.

 

[Catbone]

yes because i dont think humans have any superior right to life than our neighboring species. therefore choosing between something that is unquestionably alive and another thing that is only debatably alive, i choose life. obviously, in a perfect world the "death" of neither would be ideal.

So do you view animals eating other animals as evil or wrong?

 

[Coleslaw]

yes because i dont think humans have any superior right to life than our neighboring species. therefore choosing between something that is unquestionably alive and another thing that is only debatably alive, i choose life. obviously, in a perfect world the "death" of neither would be ideal.

So you eat plants that are unquestionably alive? Your line of yes versus no is as arbitrary as anyone else's. You might want to look into plant neurobiology research to understand how plants experience and respond to stimuli.

 

[Ashevolle]

Which means you have an alternate perspective then. Founded on something other than God. one which you have truths to all things. Or you've chosen to believe something you've not seen. You actually have to believe in God. I don't believe you that you don't believe in Him. It's impossible. Not all will follow Him though..

lulz. patronize much? what arrogance leads you to believe you can know the mind of a complete stranger? 2/3 of the world don't believe that Christ is God, yet its impossible that any of those people don't actually believe in him. Rather, they're all simply lying to themselves. Hilarious.

 

[Ashevolle]

So you eat plants that are unquestionably alive? Your line of yes versus no is as arbitrary as anyone else's. You might want to look into plant neurobiology research to understand how plants experience and respond to stimuli.

Violence and death is inevitable to survive on this planet. It's kill or be kill. I try to navigate the moral quandary of also being a human abhorred by violence to the best of my ability. It is impossible live without some hypocrisy and I, like everyone in this thread, am guilty of some hypocrisy. I was simply trying to point out some of the hypocrisy in the current debate by those who make abortion and issue of the sanctity of life.

 

[triadvolfan]

I know I'm going to regret this.....


Sodom and Gomorrah......were there no innocent children there? I mean, regardless of what the adults were doing the children (especially the babies) were innocent, right?

The flood....Eight people saved out of everyone on earth. I wonder how many babies drowned. They must have done something terrible to deserve that.

Abraham and Isacc. While Isacc wasn't a baby, Abraham was asked to kill his own son. He was only stopped when he was actually about to do it. That story always seemed strange to me. If life is sacred, shouldn't the appropriate thing have been utter refusal to take the life of his son?

We love to sing the song "Joshua fit the battle of Jherico"....because it's a catchy tune. After the walls came tumbling down however......everyone in the city was killed. Those evil men, women and CHILDREN (which I have to assume means babies too).

Now.....let's move to todays topic. So a woman gets raped and is pregnant by said rapist. According to some of you, she should have to suffer through nine months of pregnancy, knowing she is carrying her rapists baby.

Does that not lesson the value of her life? "M'am we know you were raped, but we're going to need you to suffer through nine more months of indignity and have this baby".

My personal belief is that 90% or more of abortions should be illegal, but there have to be exceptions. Rape.....medical (mother has choice of losing baby or dying herself <---have real life experience with this one)...baby is going to suffer until it dies on it's own. So the problem I see with the folks saying they are pro life is.......if you agree with any of the above reasons for aborting....you are in fact pro choice. In these cases, I think that is reasonable.

A lot of you that may disagree with me on this are posters I respect a lot. My opinion of you does not change because we disagree. :good!:


Now that I've covered myself in gasoline.....strike the match, I'm ready for the flaming.

3 of the 4 examples you described involve God carrying out his judgment on humans. Man is not God's equal, we are his servants/children, and it is only by his grace we are that. We are not qualified to judge others and dole out life and death except within the narrow parameters God has given us in the bible through human government (execution of murderers and war are the only 2 that come to mind). Abortion would differ from the instances you list above in that man is making the decision to end a life, not God.

To the extent there were children that died in those instances (and there surely were) I won't stand in judgment of God on it. It seems likely their eternal fate was much better off with their death then if they had lived and been raised in that wicked society. I don't know that for sure though (I'm just speculating) which is why only He can make those decisions.

On abortion if the unborn baby is a human life then it should be protected, regardless of the circumstances of its conception. That said, if I were a politician and a bill came up that banned abortions in all circumstances except rape and incest I'd gladly vote for it. Perfect is sometimes the enemy of good.

:hi:

 

[Ashevolle]

3 of the 4 examples you described involve God carrying out his judgment on humans. Man is not God's equal, we are his servants/children, and it is only by his grace we are that. We are not qualified to judge others and dole out life and death except within the narrow parameters God has given us in the bible through human government (execution of murderers and war are the only 2 that come to mind). Abortion would differ from the instances you list above in that man is making the decision to end a life, not God.

To the extent there were children that died in those instances (and there surely were) I won't stand in judgment of God on it. It seems likely their eternal fate was much better off with their death then if they had lived and been raised in that wicked society. I don't know that for sure though (I'm just speculating) which is why only He can make those decisions.

On abortion if the unborn baby is a human life then it should be protected, regardless of the circumstances of its conception. That said, if I were a politician and a bill came up that banned abortions in all circumstances except rape and incest I'd gladly vote for it. Perfect is sometimes the enemy of good.

:hi:

The bible commands followers to commit murder in various passages. That is God instructing man to kill, not God killing (at least not without a proxy).

 

[Catbone]

Violence and death is inevitable to survive on this planet. It's kill or be kill. I try to navigate the moral quandary of also being a human abhorred by violence to the best of my ability. It is impossible live without some hypocrisy and I, like everyone in this thread, am guilty of some hypocrisy. I was simply trying to point out some of the hypocrisy in the current debate by those who make abortion and issue of the sanctity of life.

My food poops on your food

 

[RikidyBones]

I will never understand vegetarians. Burgers, steak, ribs, bacon, Ham, cheese filled hot dogs, etc. are all too delicious to give up. It also puts my k9s to work.

 

[triadvolfan]

The bible commands followers to commit murder in various passages. That is God instructing man to kill, not God killing (at least not without a proxy).

The way your phrase it isn't accurate. God (or the bible) has never commanded murder. It actually isn't possible for him to command murder. Murder is the unlawful, premeditated killing of another human being. All law is subservient to God and only has authority through Him. If He commands something it is lawful by definition.

There are times when God has commanded men to kill (or perhaps better thought of as execute) others and the bible records this event. He has even commanded the destruction of a nation or people. These are not open ended commands though but specific to the time and circumstance. And this is God using man to carry out His judgment, not man deciding to kill or God giving a license to man.

When reading the bible and you come across a command you have to ask yourself if the command is one that applies to a modern christian. If God told the Israelites to completely the destroy the Hittites, that doesn't mean the modern christian should seek out and destroy the Hittites. There are two reasons, one is the command was given to the Israeli theocracy (which no longer exists), not the church. The 2nd is the nation of the Hittites no longer exists.

Similarly, this doesn't apply in the circumstance of abortion. There's no verse where God commands the church to abort babies.

 

[Ashevolle]

I will never understand vegetarians. Burgers, steak, ribs, bacon, Ham, cheese filled hot dogs, etc. are all too delicious to give up. It also puts my k9s to work.

I used to love smoking, until I didn't anymore. I went the same way with meat. I enjoy my life more now. It drives my wife nuts, because she's not a vegetarian. But it takes all kinds.

 

[Mick]

I used to love smoking, until I didn't anymore. I went the same way with meat. I enjoy my life more now. It drives my wife nuts, because she's not a vegetarian. But it takes all kinds.

So she likes meat. JK. I couldn't resist. Good thing god didn't command us to eat meat or you would be a sinner. More steaks for the rest of us.

 

[Glitch]

i dont believe in your god, so i respectfully disagree with you.

Just out of curiosity, if you don't believe in God what guides your moral compass?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I interrupt this weird line of conversation to ask if any Volnationers are from the OKC/Norman area?

 

[Catbone]

Just out of curiosity, if you don't believe in God what guides your moral compass?

Spaghetti monster IMO

 

[LittleCat]

Just out of curiosity, if you don't believe in God what guides your moral compass?

You don't need God to know it's wrong to murder, rape, and steal.

 

[LotteryPick]

You don't need God to know it's wrong to murder, rape, and steal.

This.

I do believe in God, so I couldn't answer for sure. But I feel the desire to be a good person extends past a belief in God.

 

[Glitch]

You don't need God to know it's wrong to murder, rape, and steal.

If there is no God then what does it matter. God set out the rules of how to live because without Him human beings are selfish pleasure driven creatures. If God doesn't give us rules to live by and an afterlife to look forward to what keeps society from descending into anarchy?

 

[Glitch]

This.

I do believe in God, so I couldn't answer for sure. But I feel the desire to be a good person extends past a belief in God.

I believe that in each person is the flame of belief in God. It is that flame of belief that drives us to be good caring people. Imagine what wonderful things people would do for each other if they kindled that flame with knowledge and unbridled belief in God. The goodness in this world would be awesome!

 

[KoachKletus]

If there is no God then what does it matter. God set out the rules of how to live because without Him human beings are selfish pleasure driven creatures. If God doesn't give us rules to live by and an afterlife to look forward to what keeps society from descending into anarchy?

Evolution matters. We have evolved to become social creatures. Much as the whales to the ants. Strength in numbers kind of thing. Religion and all of it's burdens came much later when man discovered the power of money. Or some schizz like that.:hi: