How many FRESHMEN break the starting lineup this season?

#76
#76
LWSVOL said:
In 2000, I started recording season predictions for the VolQuest posters that wished to participate. Turned it over to someone else to keep up with several years ago. I believe he has them posted on one of the VQ boards.

But here is my pessimistic history on season predictions. :)

Year wins losses
2000 9 2
2001 9 2
2002 10 2
2003 10 2
2004 6 5
2005 10 1
2006 7 5
2007 9 3
2008 8 4
2009 7 5
2010 4 8
2011 6 6
2012 5 7
2013 5 7
2014 6 6

Note: I never predict a bowl game. don't know opponent so I'm not sharp enough to predict an unknown.
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Your game has been pretty legit since the Fulmer era, but you really wiffed on that '08 season lol
 
#78
#78
sjt18 said:
True but then you look at Mizzou and perhaps even USCe. They are spread teams that will likely lean on their OL's and run game a lot due to weakness at WR or QB. If you have two CB's who can lock down a WR each then you open up a lot of options to stop the run game.

Because I live in MO I look at MU more than other opponents. They have next to no production returning at WR. Their strength in their skill group is Hansbrough and another RB that returns from injury then a guy that had about 100 yards last fall. UT's young OLB's are likely better athletes then MU's starting 3rd WR. They will probably try to be TE heavy due to having some quality TE's.

If UT can play the 4-3 against them then leaning on their run game becomes more difficult.
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Good point. Mizzou would have quite a difficult time of it if we could stay in a 4 - 3 for most of the game.
 
#79
#79
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Amari Cooper and TJ Yeldon started on a team that won the national title in 2012. A'Shawn Robinson started on a team that started 11-0 in 2013. Cam Robinson started on a team that went to the playoff in 2014.

I rattled off those names just to show you that even Alabama (with its 4 consecutive #1 recruiting classes) still has true freshmen start a majority of the games for them almost every season. FSU had Jalen Ramsey starting for them as a true freshmen in the national title game against Auburn 2 years ago.

The examples are ENDLESS. When you recruit the caliber of guys we've attracted the last 2 years, its INEVITABLE that a couple of them win starting jobs as true freshmen. It does not mean you become worse. You're just used to that idea because we've been terrible for so long and have not recruited at this level since the golden days of the Fulmer era.
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Pete Carrol always said that when a freshman beat out a veteran for a starting job that it was a good thing because he had just significantly upgraded that position for several years.
 
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#81
#81
norrislakevol said:
Pete Carrol always said that when a freshman beat out a veteran for a starting job that it was a good thing because he had just significantly upgraded that position for several years.
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glass_half_full_empty.gif
 
#82
#82
LWSVOL said:
In 2000, I started recording season predictions for the VolQuest posters that wished to participate. Turned it over to someone else to keep up with several years ago. I believe he has them posted on one of the VQ boards.

But here is my pessimistic history on season predictions. :)

Year wins losses
2000 9 2
2001 9 2
2002 10 2
2003 10 2
2004 6 5
2005 10 1
2006 7 5
2007 9 3
2008 8 4
2009 7 5
2010 4 8
2011 6 6
2012 5 7
2013 5 7
2014 6 6

Note: I never predict a bowl game. don't know opponent so I'm not sharp enough to predict an unknown.
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Amazing accuracy the last few years! I'm going with 9 - 3 this year with a healthy Dobbs and an improved OL. How about you?
 
#83
#83
norrislakevol said:
Amazing accuracy the last few years! I'm going with 9 - 3 this year with a healthy Dobbs and an improved OL. How about you?
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can win 8 as long as Dobbs, Hurd and Kamara remain healthy.

I don't expect the OL to be improved though.. too many in the lineup not quality SEC players. no one ready behind them to push them out.

JMO
 
#84
#84
LWSVOL said:
can win 8 as long as Dobbs, Hurd and Kamara remain healthy.

I don't expect the OL to be improved though.. too many in the lineup not quality SEC players. no one ready behind them to push them out.

JMO
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Why not?
They improved as the year went on. They are average at best as far as talent.

So with a full off-season and being a year older, they don't get better?

I know they were bad, but even if they had high school lineman to back them up, they themselves would get stronger.

I think we could win 8 with Jennings at QB with our defense and style of offense.

This is going to be a daily routine until the season starts, so all I can say until then is that Tennessee is the most complete team in the East.
 
#85
#85
Some do not anticipate coaching ever making a difference. Every year... I expect for UT to have a coach that makes a difference... that develops players and then has them play better than their expected potential.

So when someone says that the current group of UT OL's aren't quality SEC players... I look at Mizzou. Players who look at best to be of similar athleticism to UT's OL this year... but likely less so... have now formed two good "SEC" OL's and appear to be the strength of their team this year.

SO... my reasoning goes... if Pinkel can get that out of his group then why is it unreasonable for a UT fan to expect to have a coaching staff that can do it?
 
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#86
#86
VFL-82-JP said:
Potentially, zero.

At the beginning of the season, anyway. By the end of the season, several could win their way into starts.

I do see 7 freshmen potentially in the two-deep: Dormady, Richmond and Jones on offense; KMac, Shy, Kirkland, and Bates on defense. Just none starting, not early on.

If I'm off by one, it'll be KMac. If I'm off by two, it'll be KMac and Kirkland. I seriously doubt I'd be off by 3.

Go Vols!
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If you don't see Bates or Kirkland starting, who do you expect to play MLB?
 
#90
#90
What'sInYou said:
Weatherd would be pretty bad-a in the middle but he's too good on the edge.
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But he's only going to see the field as an edge rushing specialist every now and then. If he could learn the MLB position he'd get way more burn.
 
#91
#91
sjt18 said:
SO... my reasoning goes... if Pinkel can get that out of his group then why is it unreasonable for a UT fan to expect to have a coaching staff that can do it?
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I'd argue that we've seen that improvement at many positions. As it pertains to the OL, I'd say there are some factors you have to take into account.

Pinkel has been at Mizzou for over a decade. He gets to pick the kids he thinks he can develop. He's had plenty of bodies for a true competition on the OL the last few years (though they were pretty bad in 2013).

Butch was left with a handful of Dooley recruits he didn't hand pick and insufficient numbers for the type of constant competition you need on the OL. Not having any OL from that 2012 class still hurts. Even though we lose 3 starters next year, I imagine we'll see big improvement from the OL because there will finally be good competition of guys Butch picked to play (most of whom will have been in the program for 2-3 years at least).

IMO next year will be the first year you can really compare our OL situation to Mizzou's and be able to give an honest assessment of the coaching ability as it pertains to the OL. The rebuild on the OL was arguably the biggest positional challenge the staff has had to face.
 
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#92
#92
LittleVol said:
Why not?
They improved as the year went on. They are average at best as far as talent.

So with a full off-season and being a year older, they don't get better?

I know they were bad, but even if they had high school lineman to back them up, they themselves would get stronger.

I think we could win 8 with Jennings at QB with our defense and style of offense.

This is going to be a daily routine until the season starts, so all I can say until then is that Tennessee is the most complete team in the East.
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it does happen.. and I did state why
 
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#93
#93
Darth_Shiveman said:
I'd argue that we've seen that improvement at many positions. As it pertains to the OL, I'd say there are some factors you have to take into account.

Pinkel has been at Mizzou for over a decade. He gets to pick the kids he thinks he can develop. He's had plenty of bodies for a true competition on the OL the last few years (though they were pretty bad in 2013).

Butch was left with a handful of Dooley recruits he didn't hand pick and insufficient numbers for the type of constant competition you need on the OL. Not having any OL from that 2012 class still hurts. Even though we lose 3 starters next year, I imagine we'll see big improvement from the OL because there will finally be good competition of guys Butch picked to play (most of whom will have been in the program for 2-3 years at least).

IMO next year will be the first year you can really compare our OL situation to Mizzou's and be able to give an honest assessment of the coaching ability as it pertains to the OL. The rebuild on the OL was arguably the biggest positional challenge the staff has had to face.
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they are having to play with players they would rather not play with... perhaps someone will step up and take over but it hasn't happened yet.. only about 2 weeks of fall camp will be position battle and then get ready for games
 
#94
#94
Vol8188 said:
If you don't see Bates or Kirkland starting, who do you expect to play MLB?
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LWS said Colton Jumper will get the first game start at MLB, of all folks. I trust LWS, so that's what my pencil-scribbled two-deep says now, as well.
 
#95
#95
sjt18 said:
Not trying to pick on D 4 H too much but someone does this every year. The excitement about the new players makes them forget about the old players... who were once the excited new players but didn't play immediately. There are always a few Fr that, either due to need or ability, play. But it isn't the norm.

A few years ago, someone like the OP assured me that Lane would push Poole right out of his starting role. Now that we look back on it, Lane was never as good as Poole even as a Sr. But stars blind people sometimes.
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I always had my doubts about Lane, even before he got to UT. I was never all that impressed with his HS high lights, plus he had that nasty injury coming into UT too.
 
#96
#96
sjt18 said:
Some do not anticipate coaching ever making a difference. Every year... I expect for UT to have a coach that makes a difference... that develops players and then has them play better than their expected potential.

So when someone says that the current group of UT OL's aren't quality SEC players... I look at Mizzou. Players who look at best to be of similar athleticism to UT's OL this year... but likely less so... have now formed two good "SEC" OL's and appear to be the strength of their team this year.

SO... my reasoning goes... if Pinkel can get that out of his group then why is it unreasonable for a UT fan to expect to have a coaching staff that can do it?
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Because Mahoney has proved if anything, that he makes lineman worse. He had 3 NFL lineman his first year at UT and they were not nearly as good as they were the previous year. Statistically we rushed okay... but we were supposed to be a dominant line.

Now to your point of coaching. I don't know too much about Debord's abilities, but i trust Butch in that he knows something that perhaps Debord can remedy with the line.

I'm confident in that Mizzous starting guys are more talented than our starters. Not just better fundamental guys, but better athletes in general.
They have one of the better lines in the SEC.

But LWSVOL is still undershooting the process of guys getting better -regardless of actual talent.
They were talented enough to be effective down the stretch. That means they can play and be effective over this season because they have gotten older, stronger and more experienced in the blocking scheme. We played a lot of guys too, so the competition will be much better than last year. They'll be improved.
 
#97
#97
VFL-82-JP said:
LWS said Colton Jumper will get the first game start at MLB, of all folks. I trust LWS, so that's what my pencil-scribbled two-deep says now, as well.
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I would like Colton Jumper get a better look. He's a good ball player.

He could be like Mike Williams was at CB for us last year.

That battle at MLB is going to be something else.
I have said Kirkland will be the guy after 3 fall practices. I'm sticking to that, but you never know.

- Bynum looks to be in great shape
- Bates just needs to adjust his initial punch
- Jumper was 2nd team behind AJ at one point last year
- Kirkland has it all and is just young

These are the four that are most likely going to get that MLB spot.
 
#98
#98
Darth_Shiveman said:
I'd argue that we've seen that improvement at many positions. As it pertains to the OL, I'd say there are some factors you have to take into account.
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I didn't say that there hasn't been improvement. And I could, but won't, argue that there has been sufficient time for development and sufficient talent to expect much better results this fall.... or time to develop replacements.

But that wasn't really my point. There are some that have an idea that UT fans really shouldn't or perhaps don't even deserve to expect a championship level program. They couch it in various ways. Some just talk about how rare it is. Some talk nostalgically about not knowing whether past levels of success will ever be seen again in their lifetimes. But underlying it all is a notion that UT fans should not expect to have a championship caliber coach and program.

I just do not agree with that. I think there's no real point in any of it unless you have expectations of building a great program.

IMO next year will be the first year you can really compare our OL situation to Mizzou's and be able to give an honest assessment of the coaching ability as it pertains to the OL. The rebuild on the OL was arguably the biggest positional challenge the staff has had to face.
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The comparison with Pinkel was simply on the basis of raw talent. The leftovers, if they play, will have been developed by Jones for 3 years and will play ahead of players he's recruited because he says so.

There will always be a "next year". I used to live near Chicago and knew a lot of Cubs fans.... there's always next year.
 
#99
#99
LittleVol said:
Because Mahoney has proved if anything, that he makes lineman worse. He had 3 NFL lineman his first year at UT and they were not nearly as good as they were the previous year. Statistically we rushed okay... but we were supposed to be a dominant line.

Now to your point of coaching. I don't know too much about Debord's abilities, but i trust Butch in that he knows something that perhaps Debord can remedy with the line.
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Jones believes in Mahoney. He has staked his career on Mahoney's ability. By most accounts, he had a very good OL coach at UT when he came who wanted to stay. Jones chose Mahoney.

If you can trust Jones... you can trust Mahoney.

I'm confident in that Mizzous starting guys are more talented than our starters. Not just better fundamental guys, but better athletes in general.
They have one of the better lines in the SEC.
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And... I am absolutely confident that you are wrong.

You can argue as Darth did that they are Pinkel's guys while Jones depends on players someone else signed but you can't pretend that Pinkel fought off the best programs for most of the guys who'll start on that line.

Chappell was a 3* with mid or bottom tier Power 5 offers. Someone with his ranking and offer list wouldn't get any "booms" over in the recruiting forum.

McGovern was a 5.5 3* from Fargo. Rivals didn't list any other offers besides MU.

Boehm was an in-state 4*.

Rhodes was a 265 lb 3*.

Hall was a 3* that originally went to Ole Miss. He was 2nd string as a RS Fr in the spring but left after being passed by a true Fr in the fall.


Long story short. These guys aren't a good OL because they ooze natural talent. They're a good OL because they are well coached and play within their system.

But LWSVOL is still undershooting the process of guys getting better -regardless of actual talent.
They were talented enough to be effective down the stretch. That means they can play and be effective over this season because they have gotten older, stronger and more experienced in the blocking scheme. We played a lot of guys too, so the competition will be much better than last year. They'll be improved.
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He may or may not be wrong. My point is only that if you are wrong and he is right then you have to consider coaching as a contributing factor. The "leftovers" that everyone seems to handwring over had talent as recruits unless a bunch of people were wrong. Crowder's offer list was the weakest but Kerbyson and Jackson had opportunities to play for top tier programs.

I won't claim that they are championship caliber players. But they aren't bottom of the barrel players either... they have more talent than was demonstrated last year. Again, unless a bunch of programs were wrong.
 
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#100
#100
LittleVol said:
Because Mahoney has proved if anything, that he makes lineman worse. He had 3 NFL lineman his first year at UT and they were not nearly as good as they were the previous year. Statistically we rushed okay... but we were supposed to be a dominant line.
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Statistically, the 2013 OL was much better in almost every category than the 2012 OL. Despite having much fewer weapons in the passing game than the previous year, having much more inexperienced QBs, installing a brand new offensive system, and having the most physically gifted lineman (Tiny) playing with microfractures in his knee all season, they opened up more rushing lanes than they did the previous season and gave up about the same number of sacks (very few).

They were often criticized (rightly) for having too many penalties and (wrongly) for not "taking games over." As if there anything close to enough talent on that offense to reflect how well they performed anyway. If they'd had Hurd and Kamara in the backfield instead of Neal and Lane, we'd have been the top rushing team in the East that season.

I guess what I'm getting at is that saying Mahone "made the 2012 worse" is hyperbolic. They played really well that year. It wasn't their fault the skill players surrounding them weren't up to snuff and everybody was still learning a new system.
 
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