Iran deal unlikely: what's next?

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
Utterly false. If someone from the GOP read it, consulted with experts, and presented a reasoned argument why it's good or bad (or even better discussed both strengths and weaknesses ) I'd be all ears.

They don't have leadership like that. And it's reckless on something so important.
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#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
It suggests to me that they plan to oppose it simply for political purposes, to just be anti Obama yet again. And without any regard to what's the best path to try to simultaneously prevent Iran from getting nukes, and avoiding Israeli preemptive strike.

That the GOP Senators are putting that aside, to score cheap political points with their base, seems to me to be incredibly irresponsible.

I am perfectly willing to listen to reasonable critique of the deal. It's important that we pause and assess it. The fact that so many are blasting it without knowing it's provisions suggests we are not going to have a real debate, just the usual partisanship, and on an important issue.
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You're kooky. I don't give a rats sass about the sandbox. I don't think you do either beyond finding an angle to stir the pot with republicans and conservatives.
Cheap political points:
- Shovel ready jobs that weren't so shovel ready
- 600 million misappropriated for solyndra
- cash for clunkers
- ACA which was such a railroad job the house turned from dem to repub 2 years later.

Cheap political points, posturing, pandering, passing unread legislation written by lobbyists, and constant dissension is the norm now...on both sides. This is what happens when lawyers start running things.
 
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#58
#58
Yelling 'death to America" as talks are being done is not a good idea but Obama w/those ears of his can't hear all that. He just wants his name to go in the history books as having something done while in Office. It's a pretty bad deal from the start as America should pull out quickly now when Iran will not even let inspectors inside their country to see how the day to day operations are working in the progress as they continue. Iran is hiding their lies & will not be compliant to any country as they feel they will not be told what to do & how to run their country.
 
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#59
#59
It appears to me that Iran wants the bomb with or without a deal. This is just another deal to kick the can down the road that is all too common with this government.
 
#61
#61
37L1 said:
You are not an expert on anything but that doesn't stop you from bloviating on any subject matter, does it?
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He's not a lawyer either, what lawyer has time to be on a forum non-stop? If he is, he must be very poor lawyer. Which I don't know any poor lawyers.
 
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#63
#63
McDad said:
You're kooky. I don't give a rats sass about the sandbox. I don't think you do either beyond finding an angle to stir the pot with republicans and conservatives.
Cheap political points:
- Shovel ready jobs that weren't so shovel ready
- 600 million misappropriated for solyndra
- cash for clunkers
- ACA which was such a railroad job the house turned from dem to repub 2 years later.

Cheap political points, posturing, pandering, passing unread legislation written by lobbyists, and constant dissension is the norm now...on both sides. This is what happens when lawyers start running things.
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You know the drill. Obama's motives are pure; the deal is completely non-political from his stand point. Republicans on the other hand have no principles and everything they do is motivated by political posturing.

This analysis comes from our resident poster who routinely accuses other posters of being hyperpartisan...
 
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#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
I am perfectly willing to listen to reasonable critique of the deal. It's important that we pause and assess it. The fact that so many are blasting it without knowing it's provisions suggests we are not going to have a real debate, just the usual partisanship, and on an important issue.
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Obama was touting the deal before he knew the provisions (only the framework). How could evaluate it?

The framework and basic structural issues are known and completely valid to critique.

I guess the open letter from all the former FP experts (including former Obama ones) that criticized the deal framework was just political posturing on their part.

Good thing Obama is pure and non-political to guide us through this.
 
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#65
#65
mtt2d said:
It appears to me that Iran wants the bomb with or without a deal.
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This is very true. One thing i have learned with living in our current era, people will do whatever they want regardless of laws or mandates. Especially if they feel they have a right to self determination and their law breaking doesn't hurt anyone (or only harms themselves). If a person wants to use illegal drugs, they will ,in spite of any law. If someone wants to own a gun, come across a border, drive a car without a license or insurance, steal, or if a country wants to be nuclear, they will.
I am in the boat of ignoring laws too as long as i do no harm to another person. It is the age we live in.
 
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#66
#66
volinbham said:
You know the drill. Obama's motives are pure; the deal is completely non-political from his stand point. Republicans on the other hand have no principles and everything they do is motivated by political posturing.

This analysis comes from our resident poster who routinely accuses other posters of being hyperpartisan...
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I do know the drill. It's just weird that a 50+ year old man finds it fun to stir the pot so frequently. And, most of know exactly what he is doing, too. I can understand the behavior from people in their teens and 20s but not a middle aged professional man.
 
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#68
#68
McDad said:
I do know the drill. It's just weird that a 50+ year old man finds it fun to stir the pot so frequently. And, most of know exactly what he is doing, too. I can understand the behavior from people in their teens and 20s but not a middle aged professional man.
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agreed
 
#69
#69
lawgator1 said:
It suggests to me that they plan to oppose it simply for political purposes, to just be anti Obama yet again. And without any regard to what's the best path to try to simultaneously prevent Iran from getting nukes, and avoiding Israeli preemptive strike.

That the GOP Senators are putting that aside, to score cheap political points with their base, seems to me to be incredibly irresponsible.

I am perfectly willing to listen to reasonable critique of the deal. It's important that we pause and assess it. The fact that so many are blasting it without knowing it's provisions suggests we are not going to have a real debate, just the usual partisanship, and on an important issue.
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LG, I'd bet money that those politicians criticizing this deal have a pretty good idea what's in it, maybe not all the details but a good outline. No way a politician takes the chance of blasting something of this magnitude without knowledge. They're not going to take the chance that Kerry/Obama actually pulls off a good deal.
 
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#70
#70
McDad said:
This is very true. One thing i have learned with living in our current era, people will do whatever they want regardless of laws or mandates. Especially if they feel they have a right to self determination and their law breaking doesn't hurt anyone (or only harms themselves). If a person wants to use illegal drugs, they will ,in spite of any law. If someone wants to own a gun, come across a border, drive a car without a license or insurance, steal, or if a country wants to be nuclear, they will.
I am in the boat of ignoring laws too as long as i do no harm to another person. It is the age we live in.
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Very true. There does come a time where freedoms or choices intersect with laws and thus we have consequences or punishment. I might have a freedom to drive my car down the road at 100 mph but I know it's against the law. But the main reason I don't is because I'm older and wiser now and realize that's stupid and dangerous.
 
#71
#71
A couple things that are known and critique worthy (from the framework and commentary from State since).

1. Break out time (completely legit to disagree on)

2. Ceasing of sanctions at time of deal rather than after verification (ditto)

3. % enrichment allowed (ditto)

4. stock piling of enriched uranium (ditto)

5. what is off limits to inspection (ditto)

The framework hasn't changed much, it is the details that are being negotiated. Critique built around the publicly known framework is completely legit and has come from more than just the GOP.
 
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#72
#72
theFallGuy said:
Didn't know I needed to be a nuclear expert in order to know making a deal with Iran is a dumb idea.
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Of course you knew you had to be an expert before you're allowed to comment on news items . LG is an expert in race relations, political campaigns, war strategy, campaign finance law, fringe political views, UF athletics, handgun safety, macro and micro economics, marketing, branding, mental health and gun ownership, drinking water during rebuttals, IQ scoring, and funny gifs (although, in full disclosure, i enjoy many of the ones he posts).
 
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#73
#73
hog88 said:
LG, I'd bet money that those politicians criticizing this deal have a pretty good idea what's in it, maybe not all the details but a good outline. No way a politician takes the chance of blasting something of this magnitude without knowledge. They're not going to take the chance that Kerry/Obama actually pulls off a good deal.
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The odds of Obama and Kerry pulling off a good deal are the same as Vanderbilt winning the National Championship in football.
 
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#74
#74
volinbham said:
A couple things that are known and critique worthy (from the framework and commentary from State since).

1. Break out time (completely legit to disagree on)

2. Ceasing of sanctions at time of deal rather than after verification (ditto)

3. % enrichment allowed (ditto)

4. stock piling of enriched uranium (ditto)

5. what is off limits to inspection (ditto)

The framework hasn't changed much, it is the details that are being negotiated. Critique built around the publicly known framework is completely legit and has come from more than just the GOP.
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Who is a more incompetent negotiator, Mike Hamilton or Barak Obama? If ole Hammy was negotiating with Iran the deal would be done BUT we would pay them millions for non compliance with said agreement. Lol.
 
#75
#75
hog88 said:
LG, I'd bet money that those politicians criticizing this deal have a pretty good idea what's in it, maybe not all the details but a good outline. No way a politician takes the chance of blasting something of this magnitude without knowledge. They're not going to take the chance that Kerry/Obama actually pulls off a good deal.
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You do realize the political climate we live in today?

Our politicians today on both sides criticize everything the other side suggest.

What would be wrong if Obama /Kerry actually pulled off a good deal?
 
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