To Protect and to Serve...

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#8,276
#8,276
Carl Pickens said:
The title of that article was so ridiculous I didn't even bother to read it..... So no I don't have an argument in this case.

You're one and only view is that all cops are bad....cops are killers..... Cops have no use..... Death to cops. Why should I even try to argue with this type of brainwashed mentality? There's nothing I could possibly say that you'd even remotely agree with.
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How ironic that you say I'm brainwashed. you need to stop putting words in my mouth, I never have said death to cops. Your whole argument lies on the fact that you think the only thing that matters is "the law" no matter how stupid or immoral these laws are, your stance is, "well, that's the law, they shouldn't have been stupid"

The most important thing I've tried to drive home in the great majority of my posts on the "law enforcers" is the fact they are the pointy end of politics. They enforce the edicts of the political class. Cops have killed upwards of 500 people so far this year, and we're only half way through the year.
The question everyone should ask themselves is, just because something is proclaimed law by some politician, does that place any moral responsibility upon anyone to obey.
Keep in mind the founding fathers were law breakers, rosa parks was a law breaker, the people who helped slaves escape the plantations were also law breakers. Where is your line in the sand, when is enough, enough?
 
#8,278
#8,278
volbeast33 said:
Do you honestly expect anyone to take an article titled (Badged Serial Killers) from a trash site like cop block seriously?
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Actually, cop block reposted it. It originally came from zerogov.com. But I like the reaction cop block links get here.
 

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#8,281
#8,281
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
How ironic that you say I'm brainwashed. you need to stop putting words in my mouth, I never have said death to cops. Your whole argument lies on the fact that you think the only thing that matters is "the law" no matter how stupid or immoral these laws are, your stance is, "well, that's the law, they shouldn't have been stupid"

The most important thing I've tried to drive home in the great majority of my posts on the "law enforcers" is the fact they are the pointy end of politics. They enforce the edicts of the political class. Cops have killed upwards of 500 people so far this year, and we're only half way through the year.
The question everyone should ask themselves is, just because something is proclaimed law by some politician, does that place any moral responsibility upon anyone to obey.
Keep in mind the founding fathers were law breakers, rosa parks was a law breaker, the people who helped slaves escape the plantations were also law breakers. Where is your line in the sand, when is enough, enough?
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I get your point and there are some laws I don't agree with, but I also understand that if I act like a fool when dealing with the police I'll be treated like a fool. Some of the police shootings and etc we've discussed were bad policemen doing bad police work, but not all of them were. With that said though, every incident we've discussed began with someone acting like a fool.
Now.... Before you say " I guess acting like a fool is reason enough for the cops to kill people"..... That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is don't be an idiot and the likelihood of getting throttled by the police drops dramatically.
Cops are people bro..... Just like you and me.... Some are bad at their job.... Just like some teachers, doctors, lawyers, carpenters.... You get the idea.... But you demonize them collectively..... If cop hating was the klan you'd be the grand wizard
 
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#8,283
#8,283
Carl Pickens said:
I get your point and there are some laws I don't agree with, but I also understand that if I act like a fool when dealing with the police I'll be treated like a fool. Some of the police shootings and etc we've discussed were bad policemen doing bad police work, but not all of them were. With that said though, every incident we've discussed began with someone acting like a fool.
Now.... Before you say " I guess acting like a fool is reason enough for the cops to kill people"..... That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is don't be an idiot and the likelihood of getting throttled by the police drops dramatically.
Cops are people bro..... Just like you and me.... Some are bad at their job.... Just like some teachers, doctors, lawyers, carpenters.... You get the idea.... But you demonize them collectively..... If cop hating was the klan you'd be the grand wizard
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You're dam right I condemn them collectively. When is the last time you saw a cop condem the practices of his colleagues and A remain a cop, or B not have some sort of trumped up charges brought upon them. There are two types of cops, bad cops and silent cops. I'm still waiting for the good to purge the bad from the system.


This myth of the rule of law is insanity on display, you're basically saying that, we shouldn't be free humans and exercise our rights as long as you're not hurting anyone else. No, we have to do what the law deems acceptable. If we protest our attempted kidnapping or extortion, or try to flee, we'll be murdered, and likely the cop will get away with it.
Statism, ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
 
#8,286
#8,286
The difference between me and the rest of you is, I'll read the things you post. Regardless of where it comes from. Here is a feel good quote from Carl's article.

"Now I’m not foolish enough to think that just because I’ve written something like this or will continue to, that I’m going to change all the cop haters’ minds. In fact, I might not change any…ever. But I’m reminded of something the new Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said to me and a few other officers standing in his office during Police Week: “Our job is to keep people safe and sometimes people won’t like the way we do it and they will criticize us; But I comfort myself knowing that we’ve done a good enough job so far since they have the freedom and voice to express that opinion.”

It's quite simple Carl, if the cops "job" is to keep people safe, they're a miserable failure. The truth is, cops arrive after the crime has been committed. Actually, their job is to enforce the laws, all of them, whether they agree with them or not.

I'm sure you'd love to lump me into the group who calls for violence on cops wouldn't you?
 
#8,287
#8,287
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
The difference between me and the rest of you is, I'll read the things you post. Regardless of where it comes from. Here is a feel good quote from Carl's article.

"Now I’m not foolish enough to think that just because I’ve written something like this or will continue to, that I’m going to change all the cop haters’ minds. In fact, I might not change any…ever. But I’m reminded of something the new Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said to me and a few other officers standing in his office during Police Week: “Our job is to keep people safe and sometimes people won’t like the way we do it and they will criticize us; But I comfort myself knowing that we’ve done a good enough job so far since they have the freedom and voice to express that opinion.”

It's quite simple Carl, if the cops "job" is to keep people safe, they're a miserable failure. The truth is, cops arrive after the crime has been committed. Actually, their job is to enforce the laws, all of them, whether they agree with them or not.

I'm sure you'd love to lump me into the group who calls for violence on cops wouldn't you?
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I wouldn't go that far, but I bet you enjoy reading and watching videos about cops getting their asses kicked much more than the average person
 
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#8,294
#8,294
DTH presents an anti law enforcement argument and CP responds by insinuating that he must feel that way because, at some point in the past, a LEO has "played cornhole with his old lady."

Though it's not the best example, I think it fits what I'd consider an ad hominem. Instead of addressing what he posted, he chooses to question if these beliefs stem from a LEO having slept with an old girlfriend. If someone suggested that beliefs that I was passionate about were ridiculous and only the manifestation of some long held grudge about a girl in the past, I would certainly take that as an insult to my character.

While we're on the topic of fallacies....

Carl Pickens said:
You're one and only view is that all cops are bad....cops are killers..... Cops have no use..... Death to cops. Why should I even try to argue with this type of brainwashed mentality? There's nothing I could possibly say that you'd even remotely agree with.
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There's a pretty good example of a straw man.
 
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#8,295
#8,295
TNsnyper20 said:
Where do you draw the line? Meth lab is run by non violent persons... Do you give them a pass? Crack dealer had a history of non violence... Does he get a pass?

Or is it morally unjust to arrest someone running a meth lab simply because meth was made illegal by a person?
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So what about this question cdy?
 
#8,297
#8,297
TNsnyper20 said:
So what about this question cdy?
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First off I find it funny that you used crack and meth, two drugs that were popularized as a direct result of the over reaching federal government's "war on drugs". So in that respect, your question basically answers itself.

With the meth lab, there's so many variables that would go into deciding if it was moral or not. First off, where is it located? Are they cooking in an RV in the middle of no where or on the 3rd story of a 6 story project? Are completely un-involved people or their property being harmed or damaged in the process? How safe are they being while doing it*? Are they cooking high? So simply asking if having a meth lab is moral is immoral is something that I'd need a lot more details to decide.

I do know this. Take government completely out of the picture and let the free market handle meth and 99.9% of meth labs disappear. You'd have companies that built gigantic labs, like in Breaking Bad, who could safely mass produce meth that was exponentially cheaper and better quality than Leroy could dream of making in his trailer. Basically the same way drunks don't have breweries in their garage. Budweiser makes it ways cheaper, more convenient, and honestly probably better than the piss water most people would make.

As for the crack dealer. If we're discussing a man who is providing a product to willing customers, then I'm having a hard finding what's wrong with that. Though again, in a completely free drug market crack probably wouldn't exist.

If it was about right and wrong then the DEA would be raiding pediatrician's offices and elementary schools, both of which are peddling amphetamines to the most vulnerable population out there to keep from having to put some damned effort raising/educating them. They'd be raiding methadone clinics, which do nothing but profit off people with opiate addictions and massively fail at reducing dependency. But they don't because it has nothing to do with right and wrong. I know that, you know that, and the cops who enforce these laws know that.

*I've obviously never made meth. I did however, at some point during watching BB, look on the Internet and find recipes for cooking meth. I was just curious as to how difficult it was and whether or not I could do it. I will say that it's not rocket science. There are safety mechanisms you can build into the system and, if used properly, you'd have to be fairly stupid to blow your lab up.
 
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#8,299
#8,299
Cdywolfe said:
First off I find it funny that you used crack and meth, two drugs that basically exist as a direct result of the over reaching federal government's "war on drugs". So in that respect, your question basically answers itself.

With the meth lab, there's so many variables that would go into deciding if it was moral or not. First off, where is it located? Are they cooking in an RV in the middle of no where or on the 3rd story of a 6 story project? Are completely un-involved people or their property being harmed or damaged in the process? How safe are they being while doing it*? Are they cooking high? So simply asking if having a meth lab is moral is immoral is something that I'd need a lot more details to decide.

I do know this. Take government completely out of the picture and let the free market handle meth and 99.9% of meth labs disappear. You'd have companies that built gigantic labs, like in Breaking Bad, who could safely mass produce meth that was exponentially cheaper and better quality than Leroy could dream of making in his trailer. Basically the same way drunks don't have breweries in their garage. Budweiser makes it ways cheaper, more convenient, and honestly probably better than the piss water most people would make.

As for the crack dealer. If we're discussing a man who is providing a product to willing customers, then I'm having a hard finding what's wrong with that. Though again, in a completely free drug market crack probably wouldn't exist.

If it was about right and wrong then the DEA would be raiding pediatrician's offices and elementary schools, both of which are peddling amphetamines to the most vulnerable population out there to keep from having to put some damned effort raising/educating them. They'd be raiding methadone clinics, which do nothing but profit off people with opiate addictions and massively fail at reducing dependency. But they don't because it has nothing to do with right and wrong. I know that, you know that, and the cops who enforce these laws know that.

*I've obviously never made meth. I did however, at some point during watching BB, look on the Internet and find recipes for cooking meth. I was just curious as to how difficult it was and whether or not I could do it. I will say that it's not rocket science. There are safety mechanisms you can build into the system and, if used properly, you'd have to be fairly stupid to blow your lab up.
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There should be no variables that go into deciding whether it is moral or not. Regardless of its location, deep in the woods or next to a public school, the drug itself reaches its destination. And it affects more than those who take it. Just look at the downfall of areas where meth has spread.

Referencing breaking bad.. Really?

Here is my issues with the anarchy frame of mind. You believe in everything being left up to the free market until you see it morally unjust. However what you see as morally unjust others won't. Then you have a disagreement. Who resolves that disagreement? An authority figure? Nope, authority bad.

This is the exact reason we have laws. Because as a society no one will ever see eye to eye on any subject. The laws of this land is what keeps us as civilized as what we are. Just because you see a law as immoral doesn't mean others do. I don't like all the laws we have, however I don't see officers who enforce those laws as bad cops or immoral.
 
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#8,300
#8,300
Also want to say this. As much as I disagree with your alls stance on anarchy. I can't help but respect the fact you are so dedicated to it.



Even if it's completely wrong.:)
 
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