Lying liars and the lies they tell

#1
McDad

McDad

I can't brain today; I has the dumb.
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#1
Ras made a comment in the Lyndsey Graham thread that caused the few neurons i have remaining to activate. His post:

"This is the kind of refreshing honesty that has been missing in politics. Don't lie to me and tell me what I want to hear before the election and then change to a more unpopular position. Let the ppeople know beforehand where you really stand so they don't have to bother wasting their time voting for you.

Lindsey Graham: If you’re tired of war, don’t vote for me"

i admire Graham for his honesty but i wouldn't vote for him.

Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
 
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#2
#2
McDad said:
Ras made a comment in the Lyndsey Graham thread that caused the few neurons i have remaining to activate. His post:

"This is the kind of refreshing honesty that has been missing in politics. Don't lie to me and tell me what I want to hear before the election and then change to a more unpopular position. Let the ppeople know beforehand where you really stand so they don't have to bother wasting their time voting for you.

Lindsey Graham: If you’re tired of war, don’t vote for me"

i admire Graham for his honesty but i wouldn't vote for him.

Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
Click to expand...

No
No
Not very
Sometimes


All politicians lie. Very few of them actually work for the people. I think one that does work for the people is Knox County Mayor Tim Burchett. From what I've witnessed, he seems to truly stand behind his oath of office.
 
#3
#3
McDad said:
Ras made a comment in the Lyndsey Graham thread that caused the few neurons i have remaining to activate. His post:

"This is the kind of refreshing honesty that has been missing in politics. Don't lie to me and tell me what I want to hear before the election and then change to a more unpopular position. Let the ppeople know beforehand where you really stand so they don't have to bother wasting their time voting for you.

Lindsey Graham: If you’re tired of war, don’t vote for me"

i admire Graham for his honesty but i wouldn't vote for him.

Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
Click to expand...

No lying is not acceptable. The fact that lying is acceptable for politicians is sadly reflective of the moral decay of our country at large. Honesty and integrity are characteristics of a great leader. Would you rather have a boss at work that lied or was honest to you? The answer is clear to me.
 
#4
#4
McDad said:
Ras made a comment in the Lyndsey Graham thread that caused the few neurons i have remaining to activate. His post:

"This is the kind of refreshing honesty that has been missing in politics. Don't lie to me and tell me what I want to hear before the election and then change to a more unpopular position. Let the ppeople know beforehand where you really stand so they don't have to bother wasting their time voting for you.

Lindsey Graham: If you’re tired of war, don’t vote for me"

i admire Graham for his honesty but i wouldn't vote for him.

Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
Click to expand...

No... Maybe some not as much, but they all lie.

Absolutely not.

It is important. However since I believe none are telling 100% truths, I find myself getting sucked in. And it pisses me off.

Refer to my previous answer.
 
#5
#5
McDad said:
Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?
Click to expand...

If there are, and they have a couple of brain cells that are capable of thought... they're lying to themselves as much as the politicians are.

McDad said:
Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?
Click to expand...

Perhaps an allusion to something they don't intend to uphold, perhaps. However, in the thread on Obama I started... he outright said he believes in upholding civil liberties of Americans as well as transparency in government and then directly went against that rhetoric.

I guess my defining line is the difference between half-truths, empty rhetoric and outright lies. Half-truths are to be expected in all walks of life as well as empty rhetoric.

McDad said:
Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?
Click to expand...

For political office? For an office of the most powerful nation in the world? Pretty damned important. I'm one of those that believes it's not right that about 550 elected officials can directly affect the lives of billions without even representing the wants and desires of the 330,000,000 people they were elected to represent.

McDad said:
Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
Click to expand...

I think it's good rhetoric and nothing more. Empty words and promises to get elected and then, from there, just convince people you know what's best for them and what they want isn't what is best for them because you're now an elected official and you know what's best.
 
#6
#6
We, i.e. American Citizens, share the blame. We insist on candidates taking a stand on the issues we find important. But, we know, or at least should know, that those candidates don't have all the information they need to make an informed decision. They won't have that information until they are in the seat and even then some factors may have changed. So it is like Candidate Obama saying "I will close GITMO!" Then he gets into office and finds out the truth and 6 years later we all call him a liar.

What we should ask our candidates is "how do you solve difficult problems?" "can you explain how you would handle the following types of situations? with examples?" "dude, do you even lift?" But none of that makes for good news content...
 
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#7
#7
i can't speak for everything but i think a lot of the time that they are saying stuff in elections and then do different stuff in office is because of reality. they think dropping taxes would fix the city but then get into office and people "in the know" tell them that raising taxes will actually fix things and they have studies. basically they don't know the full story for the election and once they do their story changes. of course there are still people who lie with no intention of following through but i am willing to be a decent percentage 10-30% fall under the not knowing enough category. (for some things)
 
#8
#8
YorkVol said:
We, i.e. American Citizens, share the blame. We insist on candidates taking a stand on the issues we find important. But, we know, or at least should know, that those candidates don't have all the information they need to make an informed decision. They won't have that information until they are in the seat and even then some factors may have changed. So it is like Candidate Obama saying "I will close GITMO!" Then he gets into office and finds out the truth and 6 years later we all call him a liar.

What we should ask our candidates is "how do you solve difficult problems?" "can you explain how you would handle the following types of situations? with examples?" "dude, do you even lift?" But none of that makes for good news content...
Click to expand...

Excellent post York.

We need to delve more into their character also, sound bites mean shizz.
 
#9
#9
YorkVol said:
We, i.e. American Citizens, share the blame. We insist on candidates taking a stand on the issues we find important. But, we know, or at least should know, that those candidates don't have all the information they need to make an informed decision. They won't have that information until they are in the seat and even then some factors may have changed. So it is like Candidate Obama saying "I will close GITMO!" Then he gets into office and finds out the truth and 6 years later we all call him a liar.

What we should ask our candidates is "how do you solve difficult problems?" "can you explain how you would handle the following types of situations? with examples?" "dude, do you even lift?" But none of that makes for good news content...
Click to expand...

This is the issue I have.

Is it what "we" find important or is it the devaluation of the news that has led to social issues being injected at the Federal level where they don't belong?
 
#10
#10
Lying is like breathing to politicians. They have to do it to survive. With that in mind, research them yourself and never take them at their word. They got in office by lyin and they won't stop once they are there. Lying =power, and they won't give it up.
 
#12
#12
YorkVol said:
We, i.e. American Citizens, share the blame. We insist on candidates taking a stand on the issues we find important. But, we know, or at least should know, that those candidates don't have all the information they need to make an informed decision. They won't have that information until they are in the seat and even then some factors may have changed. So it is like Candidate Obama saying "I will close GITMO!" Then he gets into office and finds out the truth and 6 years later we all call him a liar.

What we should ask our candidates is "how do you solve difficult problems?" "can you explain how you would handle the following types of situations? with examples?" "dude, do you even lift?" But none of that makes for good news content...
Click to expand...

Great post. I'll also add that we tend to only elect charismatic personality types. Candidates are eliminated for the most superficial reasons. That's why we get salesmen, when we should probably be looking for accounting/engineering personality types.
 
#14
#14
McDad said:
Ras made a comment in the Lyndsey Graham thread that caused the few neurons i have remaining to activate. His post:

"This is the kind of refreshing honesty that has been missing in politics. Don't lie to me and tell me what I want to hear before the election and then change to a more unpopular position. Let the ppeople know beforehand where you really stand so they don't have to bother wasting their time voting for you.

Lindsey Graham: If you’re tired of war, don’t vote for me"

i admire Graham for his honesty but i wouldn't vote for him.

Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?
Click to expand...

^ That's why the RNC is going to limit the length and number of debates in the primaries . Damage control ! :birgits_giggle:
 
#16
#16
Velo Vol said:
Candidates don't get elected by telling voters things they don't want to hear.
Click to expand...

Your truism doesn't answer my Qs, though.

Is lying justified? Is it necessary? Is honesty even important?
 
#17
#17
There's a reason Mojo Nixon's politically themed radio program is called "Lying C@cks#ckers"

I agree with York that approach to issues is more important than sound byte solutions.

I believe basic operating principles or philosophy is important

I believe character is important.

On the last, I honestly can't believe people consider Clinton to be trustworthy
 
#18
#18
McDad said:
Your truism doesn't answer my Qs, though.

Is lying justified? Is it necessary? Is honesty even important?
Click to expand...

"Lie" is a vague term. If a candidate rolls out a policy based on theoretically possible, but unlikely assumptions, is that a lie?
 
#19
#19
Velo Vol said:
"Lie" is a vague term. If a candidate rolls out a policy based on theoretically possible, but unlikely assumptions, is that a lie?
Click to expand...

Seriously, Velo? We need to parse what is/isn't a lie?
 
#20
#20
volinbham said:
There's a reason Mojo Nixon's politically themed radio program is called "Lying C@cks#ckers"

I agree with York that approach to issues is more important than sound byte solutions.

I believe basic operating principles or philosophy is important

I believe character is important.

On the last, I honestly can't believe people consider Clinton to be trustworthy
Click to expand...

Is Rand Paul a liar?
 
#22
#22
Everybody lies to some extent, whether they are politicians or not. Politicians are in a position where they have a huge incentive to lie, thus they do.

I prefer more honest politicians, simply because it's a strong indicator that they will stick to their guns, but I don't need total honesty. If you lie about your true position on an issue that doesn't matter and won't come into play, I don't care.

Rand Paul was asked about the civil rights act and he basically said it was a violation of states rights. He should have just swallowed that position. It doesn't really matter going forward. A Rand Paul presidency would be the best thing to happen to minorities, but that rhetoric scared people.
 
#23
#23
All I know is that if Paul holds true to his platforms, he's about as close to my ideal candidate as possible. While there are stances of his I disagree with... he has said they should be state directives and not Federal so thats a huge plus.

And that is what scares me. Is he real or is he just catering a platform because he knows that is what the people want.
 
#24
#24
It's like getting tipsy and picking up the hot chic at a bar. Tell them what they want to hear and promise them the world. The next day she sees the truth but it's too late.....got screwed.
 
#25
#25
Q1: Are there any people in this forum who believe their favorite politician never lies (or lies significantly less than the other politicians)?

No. With the amount of money it cost to run a campaign today, I believe all the politicians are owned by big donors and will say whatever they are told to say

Q2: Is lying justified because the person has to win to change the direction of policy or because everyone else is doing it?

No. Two wrongs does not make it right. It appears to be and is true to a point that politicians think if they continually repeat the same lie over and over voters will believe it.

Q3: How important is honesty when you're considering someone?

On a scale of 1- 10 I would say a 7.
A candidate that flip flops on a regular basis is a candidate I will not vote for.
I can understand a candidate changing his mind on an issue or two from time to time but not every other day ,ala Kerry and Romney.


Q4: If you accept the notion that all politicians lie, do you ever find yourself believing their speeches even though you know better?

No. I look at their history. Actions speak louder than words.
 
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