Recruiting forum off topic thread (merged)

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#7,176
#7,176
BigZiti09 said:
Blue font?
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Statistically, its not close. Lebron's Teams <<<<<< Jordan's teams. And, if you do a bit more digging on 538, you can find more numbers that show Jordan has also beaten less talented opponents in the finals. Argue all you want about statistics being skewed for Lebron (they aren't, its 538 after all) or that Jordan would've done the same or won more with his teams (Tip, he didn't win a playoff series till Pippen, Lebron carried the Cavs in 07 to the finals.)

This really isn't an argument at this point. To this time in their careers Lebron > Jordan. And if Lebron wins this series, with no Love or Kyrie and a JV squad otherwise, against one of the 10 greatest teams of all time in GS statistically, only the people who hate Lebron can argue he's not as good or better than Jordan. And even those people have to put him #2.

Where This Year&#8217;s Cavs Rank Among LeBron
 
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#7,177
#7,177
Daloth said:
Statistically, its not close. Lebron's Teams <<<<<< Jordan's teams. And, if you do a bit more digging on 538, you can find more numbers that show Jordan has also beaten less talented opponents in the finals. Argue all you want about statistics being skewed for Lebron (they aren't, its 538 after all) or that Jordan would've done the same or won more with his teams (Tip, he didn't win a playoff series till Pippen, Lebron carried the Cavs in 07 to the finals.)

This really isn't an argument at this point. To this time in their careers Lebron > Jordan. And if Lebron wins this series, with no Love or Kyrie and a JV squad otherwise, against one of the 10 greatest teams of all time in GS statistically, only the people who hate Lebron can argue he's not as good or better than Jordan. And even those people have to put him #2.

Where This Year’s Cavs Rank Among LeBron
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Pfffttt. At least LeBron's teams always had actual NBA players on them.

Jordan beat a race of 30-story tall space aliens with Looney Tunes and Bill Murray for teammates.
 
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#7,178
#7,178
Daloth said:
Statistically, its not close. Lebron's Teams <<<<<< Jordan's teams. And, if you do a bit more digging on 538, you can find more numbers that show Jordan has also beaten less talented opponents in the finals. Argue all you want about statistics being skewed for Lebron (they aren't, its 538 after all) or that Jordan would've done the same or won more with his teams (Tip, he didn't win a playoff series till Pippen, Lebron carried the Cavs in 07 to the finals.)

This really isn't an argument at this point. To this time in their careers Lebron > Jordan. And if Lebron wins this series, with no Love or Kyrie and a JV squad otherwise, against one of the 10 greatest teams of all time in GS statistically, only the people who hate Lebron can argue he's not as good or better than Jordan. And even those people have to put him #2.

Where This Year’s Cavs Rank Among LeBron
Click to expand...

This definitely deserves to be in the off topic thread...care not at all for/against LeBron....
:hi:
 
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#7,179
#7,179
Daloth said:
Statistically, its not close. Lebron's Teams <<<<<< Jordan's teams. And, if you do a bit more digging on 538, you can find more numbers that show Jordan has also beaten less talented opponents in the finals. Argue all you want about statistics being skewed for Lebron (they aren't, its 538 after all) or that Jordan would've done the same or won more with his teams (Tip, he didn't win a playoff series till Pippen, Lebron carried the Cavs in 07 to the finals.)

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Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp & Gary Payton, Karl Malone & John Stockton (All top 50 all time greats) fell to the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Lebron has beat Dirk, and took all the luck in the world to beat the Spurs.

What Lebron is doing is awesome not gonna argue that, but the team he is beating this year is not better than any of the teams The Bulls beat.
 
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#7,180
#7,180
PowerT83 said:
Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp & Gary Payton, Karl Malone & John Stockton (All top 50 all time greats) fell to the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Lebron has beat Dirk, and took all the luck in the world to beat the Spurs.

What Lebron is doing is awesome not gonna argue that, but the team he is beating this year is not better than any of the teams The Bulls beat.
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Are you saying the entire league is down? Because G St. has been considered one of the best teams, if not the best, in the league this year.
 
#7,181
#7,181
Yeah I think the league is down, I'm not big into looking into stats but teams may have better athletes now but they don't seem to have as many superstars and they all like to flop and whine. I see alot of teams just take terrible shots and don't really know what to do in certain situations.
 
#7,182
#7,182
bluegrasser said:
In between NBA stuff, thug/parent discussions and so on is this nugget.

Hurd is at 242 and FASTER than last year?!

Gonna straight up truck some fools this year.
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I wanna see him stiff arm a few fools to the ground a la Eddie George vs. Ray Lewis.
 
#7,183
#7,183
PowerT83 said:
Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp & Gary Payton, Karl Malone & John Stockton (All top 50 all time greats) fell to the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Lebron has beat Dirk, and took all the luck in the world to beat the Spurs.

What Lebron is doing is awesome not gonna argue that, but the team he is beating this year is not better than any of the teams The Bulls beat.
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Doesn't fit his argument. All very good points. I guess we need things to discuss, but I am not even sure why we have to decide if one is better than the other. Both are all-time great players.
 
#7,184
#7,184
PowerT83 said:
Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp & Gary Payton, Karl Malone & John Stockton (All top 50 all time greats) fell to the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Lebron has beat Dirk, and took all the luck in the world to beat the Spurs.

What Lebron is doing is awesome not gonna argue that, but the team he is beating this year is not better than any of the teams The Bulls beat.
Click to expand...
Stopped reading at Gary Payton and Sean Kemp all time top 50 greats.
 
#7,188
#7,188
PowerT83 said:
Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp & Gary Payton, Karl Malone & John Stockton (All top 50 all time greats) fell to the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Lebron has beat Dirk, and took all the luck in the world to beat the Spurs.

What Lebron is doing is awesome not gonna argue that, but the team he is beating this year is not better than any of the teams The Bulls beat.
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Unfortunately, most coaches and commentators, and most importantly the statistics and numbers, will completely disagree with you. Talent nowadays is infinitely better top to bottom than it was twenty years ago, as is pure athleticism.

Doesn't matter if Lebron had "luck" to beat one of the best dynasties in the NBA. MJ had "luck" when he hit six threes in one quarter, and "luck" in getting Pippen and Rodman and one of the GOAT coaches, but nobody says anything about that.

I have no allegiance to either. But I don't argue against numbers, and the fact is numbers point that LBJ has won against superior opponents with FAR less than Jordan has. Lebron may end out having the greatest carrying capacity of any player in any sport before its all said and done. #1 right now is most likely Peyton Manning, but just making it to these finals with this terrible team, now twice, has LBJ up there if not at the top.

I'm not sure why we see MJ as this sacred cow compared to other sports. People don't freak out arguing Manning or Brady over Montana or Favre or Marino. Yes, MJ is the GOAT as of this very second in the NBA, but to say Lebron isn't able to pass him? or isn't insanely close already? That's just ignorance of the sport, human and scientific advancements, and history in general. The future will always surpass the past in success eventually. And its also highly likely that the guy who might pass LBJ is in the league already. His name is Anthony Davis.
 
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#7,189
#7,189
VolGee4 said:
Doesn't fit his argument. All very good points. I guess we need things to discuss, but I am not even sure why we have to decide if one is better than the other. Both are all-time great players.
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Lebron got the, statistically, best coach in the NBA past 5 years fired in Chicago. He's put out Duncan, the Big three in Boston, D rose, and other several all time greats, with LESS TALENT on his teams than Jordan needed to do the same. It doesn't "fit my argument" because it's not a point of discussion. Lebrons competition, statistically (which is as close to facts as we can get in sports), has been better than MJ's, and on top of that, Lebron's teams are worse. So he has done more with less in two enormous categories.
 
#7,190
#7,190
Daloth said:
Lebron got the, statistically, best coach in the NBA past 5 years fired in Chicago. He's put out Duncan, the Big three in Boston, D rose, and other several all time greats, with LESS TALENT on his teams than Jordan needed to do the same. It doesn't "fit my argument" because it's not a point of discussion. Lebrons competition, statistically (which is as close to facts as we can get in sports), has been better than MJ's, and on top of that, Lebron's teams are worse. So he has done more with less in two enormous categories.
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And he still only has two rings.

I'm not a LeBron skeptic FWIW, and I think he's absolutely as good as Jordan, possibly better (he's the most physically gifted athlete in history), but right now it's Brady vs Peyton. People want to see more rings.

Like you said, if he gets another one in this series, people will start believing that he might just be the best ever.
 
#7,191
#7,191
Daloth said:
Lebron got the, statistically, best coach in the NBA past 5 years fired in Chicago. He's put out Duncan, the Big three in Boston, D rose, and other several all time greats, with LESS TALENT on his teams than Jordan needed to do the same. It doesn't "fit my argument" because it's not a point of discussion. Lebrons competition, statistically (which is as close to facts as we can get in sports), has been better than MJ's, and on top of that, Lebron's teams are worse. So he has done more with less in two enormous categories.
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Alot of opinion in those statements. Lebron also played with two other all-stars in Miami in a weak Eastern Conference. Lebron didn't get Tibs fired. That's very simplistic thinking. And Rose? How is he considered "great," with all of his injuries?

It is clear that people are on one side or the other. I grew up watching Jordan. I can admit that Lebron is an all-time great and his accomplishments this year are phenominal. Just enjoy it.
 
#7,192
#7,192
No one ever "wins" these arguments. There are Oscar Robertson fans that will never concede their guy...and don't have to. :wink2:
 
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#7,193
#7,193
If you think the Eastern Conference is more talented now than in the nineties Idk what to tell you.

Players are more talented, but they're soft as Charmin. Coaching was better in MJ's era.

I know Golden State had a great regular season. but they're showing inexperience on the big stage. I can't help but think if the Spurs would of got their **** together they would of caused the Warriors every bit as much trouble as the Cavs are.

Of course LBJ could go down as the greatest of all time and most younger people than myself already feel he is. It was a different era when Jordan played, no zone defense and his competition was tougher. I'll always view him as the best. If he doesn't retire he would of more than likely had 8 straight titles and 8 straight MVP trophies.
 
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#7,195
#7,195
I've seen both with my own eyes. Jordan was better. I don't care about stats and opinions of whose team was better. Jordan would take the last shot and beat you every time. Clutch. Lebron is more of just a freak athlete. I still think Lebron is #3 at best for now. To say Lebron has had a bad team is laughable. The Heat were the all star team. A year or two with the cavs doesn't erase that. I don't think Lebron could win with bill wennington and company.
 
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#7,197
#7,197
Skullbone said:
I've seen both with my own eyes. Jordan was better. I don't care about stats and opinions of whose team was better. Jordan would take the last shot and beat you every time. Clutch. Lebron is more of just a freak athlete. I still think Lebron is #3 at best for now. To say Lebron has had a bad team is laughable. The Heat were the all star team. A year or two with the cavs doesn't erase that. I don't think Lebron could win with bill wennington and company.
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When Lebron left the Heat they only won 34 games. When MJ left the Bulls the first time they still won 55 games. People seem to forget that Pippen and Rodman were hall of famers. That Bulls was better than the Heat if you took out their superstars.
 
#7,199
#7,199
R0CKYT0P 16 said:
When Lebron left the Heat they only won 34 games. When MJ left the Bulls the first time they still won 55 games. People seem to forget that Pippen and Rodman were hall of famers. That Bulls was better than the Heat if you took out their superstars.
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First time Jordan left? Rodman wasn't on the team. They brought in Kucoc and word is he could play. Thing is Pippen could never carry a team. Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley et al have championship rings because they could fit around a driving force in Jordan. LBJ might possibly have a nth superior physical activity, but he's not undefeated because he couldn't Michael Jordan his original Cavaliers team in the Finals and with the Heat lost to inferior teams like the Mavericks and the last ditch Spurs.
 
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#7,200
#7,200
Skullbone said:
I've seen both with my own eyes. Jordan was better. I don't care about stats and opinions of whose team was better. Jordan would take the last shot and beat you every time. Clutch. Lebron is more of just a freak athlete. I still think Lebron is #3 at best for now. To say Lebron has had a bad team is laughable. The Heat were the all star team. A year or two with the cavs doesn't erase that. I don't think Lebron could win with bill wennington and company.
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MJ was 9-18 on last second shots in the playoffs. So half the time instead of every time.
 
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