Da Reds thread

#11,326
#11,326
volatil said:
The Price is wrong.




Time for a change
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Man, this is awful. After over 200 games the guy can't fill out a line up card right providing he doesn't get thrown out of the game before they exchange them. Go Riggleman on an interim basis.
 
#11,327
#11,327
A classic decision making day for Bryan Price. Continues to bat BP lead off - with him having a bad case of turf toe. So he's out there running like a 70 year old man. Bats Billy 9th LaRussa style, which is enough grounds for firing him IMO, when Billy is coming out of his slump and could do more damage back in the lead off role. He's only the fastest guy in MLB. Lets his pitcher Marquis bat in the 4th with guys on first and second and one out without attempting a sac bunt after Marquis had already given up 4 runs in 4 innings and was later pulled before the end of the 6th inning. Of course, Marquis strikes out. Another time he calls a hit/run with Bruce on first and Pena at the plate on a 3-1 count against a pitcher that gives up a lot of walks. Pena whiffs the pitch, Bruce gets thrown out, Pena then walks on the next pitch. If Price has ceded the offensive side along with batting order to Bell - Bell needs fired along with Price.
 
#11,328
#11,328
Vols4us said:
A classic decision making day for Bryan Price. Continues to bat BP lead off - with him having a bad case of turf toe. So he's out there running like a 70 year old man. Bats Billy 9th LaRussa style, which is enough grounds for firing him IMO, when Billy is coming out of his slump and could do more damage back in the lead off role. He's only the fastest guy in MLB. Lets his pitcher Marquis bat in the 4th with guys on first and second and one out without attempting a sac bunt after Marquis had already given up 4 runs in 4 innings and was later pulled before the end of the 6th inning. Of course, Marquis strikes out. Another time he calls a hit/run with Bruce on first and Pena at the plate on a 3-1 count against a pitcher that gives up a lot of walks. Pena whiffs the pitch, Bruce gets thrown out, Pena then walks on the next pitch. If Price has ceded the offensive side along with batting order to Bell - Bell needs fired along with Price.
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fire all of them. starting with bobby.
 
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#11,330
#11,330
champyvol said:
fire all of them. starting with bobby.
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volatil said:
1-11 in the last 12 games.

What are we waiting for??? My guess is they don't want to embarrass Price by firing him prior to the All Star game in Cincinnati. Want to say he's been named to the staff of that game.
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V - I agree. Apparently they would rather tank the season worse than fire him before the ASG.

Guys - fans of other clubs don't watch this stuff like we do. They just look at stats and media hype on players. But, this is the perfect storm of BAD.

Stats can bend anyway you want them, but here's some more. Since the 10-4 win 5/9 against the Chisox, they have played 17 games. They have only scored 47 runs and scored as many as 5 or more in two games. That's less than 3 runs per game. They have given up 87 runs in the same span. lol. So what do our idiot GM and Manager do to make that better? They decide to go back to fruit basket turnover on batting orders, since it worked so well last season. They also decide to go with 13 pitchers like last season. So now they only have 12 position players/hitters - one of which can't play every game because of turf toe (BP). That will really help the O. lol. You simply cannot make this stuff up it is so bizarrely stupid.

Sell. Not just players. Sell the club to somebody that knows what they are doing.

FWIW Billy got two more hits today and has been hitting well lately. Still batting 9th. He would rather have Skip leading off. They are hitting about the same BA. So let's put the slower, older guy that can't steal a base at lead off, that will get the offense going. Wow.
 
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#11,331
#11,331
Sure was a nice 4-0 start. :p

We should have held on to Harang, look how good he's been the last couple seasons. :loco:

It's mind boggling how it has come to this. In 2010 it looked like the future was bright.

Ultimately Bob has had great intentions but just chose the wrong people to get us there. Looking back to the hiring of Jock I think most Reds fans were pretty happy with it. I thouht Dusty would be a good manager, and he was decent, just not good enough to get us over that playoff hump.

Now it's like they're trying to save face for the All Star Game. It's sad to watch. If Cueto's injury turns into something serious we could end up with nothing for him this year. Which would be about par for the course. The way they handled Mesoraco's hip injury is puzzling as well. The list could go on and on. Life as a Reds fan I guess. I've been a Reds fan since birth, but I'm about ready to just root for individual players around MLB.
 
#11,333
#11,333
Price is still bungling it, but looks like the players have taken it on themselves to try to right the ship. Good sweep happening against the Nats.

For being a pitching coach for so long he seemingly doesn't get when to yank a guy. Iglesias was not pulled until it was too late when he was clearly out of gas. Today, same exact issue with Lorenzen. Got lucky two line outs prevent the Nats from going ahead. The bats saved both games and without all the HR's. Hope that stays around for awhile.
 
#11,334
#11,334
Vols4us said:
Price is still bungling it, but looks like the players have taken it on themselves to try to right the ship. Good sweep happening against the Nats.

For being a pitching coach for so long he seemingly doesn't get when to yank a guy. Iglesias was not pulled until it was too late when he was clearly out of gas. Today, same exact issue with Lorenzen. Got lucky two line outs prevent the Nats from going ahead. The bats saved both games and without all the HR's. Hope that stays around for awhile.
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When our offense is clicking we're good to go.

He had thrown 75 pitches going into the 6th, given up 3 walks and 1 hit. I could maybe see an argument for pulling him after the second walk of the inning but is anyone in the pen really going to be any better? At that point he was only up to 85 pitches too.

I agree that Price is a poor manager, but it seems like you want to complain about every little thing he does. If Lorenzen gets out of that jam you'd be singing a different tune.
 
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#11,335
#11,335
Appalachiamuck said:
When our offense is clicking we're good to go.

He had thrown 75 pitches going into the 6th, given up 3 walks and 1 hit. I could maybe see an argument for pulling him after the second walk of the inning but is anyone in the pen really going to be any better? At that point he was only up to 85 pitches too.

I agree that Price is a poor manager, but it seems like you want to complain about every little thing he does. If Lorenzen gets out of that jam you'd be singing a different tune.
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I am pretty sure I saw his pitch count at over 100 for the game. After the second walk it was in the upper 90s. But regardless, he had zero starting experience before this season started. He's not ready to go much past 75-80 yet, IMO. For sure needed to be pulled after the second walk.

Actually the pen is better, not great, but better. Diaz is settling down and Hoover has been much better. Cingrani is still erratic. Parra is back and looks decent. Even Badenhop has an appearance or two that turned out OK, but I would not trust him for anything in question.

Hope the hitting continues. It's the only shot they have to make noise as a WC.
 
#11,336
#11,336
Vols4us said:
I am pretty sure I saw his pitch count at over 100 for the game. After the second walk it was in the upper 90s. But regardless, he had zero starting experience before this season started. He's not ready to go much past 75-80 yet, IMO. For sure needed to be pulled after the second walk.

Actually the pen is better, not great, but better. Diaz is settling down and Hoover has been much better. Cingrani is still erratic. Parra is back and looks decent. Even Badenhop has an appearance or two that turned out OK, but I would not trust him for anything in question.

Hope the hitting continues. It's the only shot they have to make noise as a WC.
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Nope, I was watching the pitch by pitch on ESPN. He only threw 89 for the game. He had thrown 90 or more pitches in each of his 4 starts this season; reaching 107 in one game. No starting experience before this season? He started 24 games in Pensacola last year.

You're saying 75-80 pitches only to justify your argument; there is no reason a MLB starting pitcher should be held to that low of a pitch count unless he's coming back from injury or had actually not built up to that heavy of a work load in the spring. And our bullpen is not to be trusted. Tonight is yet another example against the worst offense in all of baseball. They're bad, a couple decent outings doesn't change that. Let's see what they can do over the course of a month.
 
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#11,337
#11,337
Appalachiamuck said:
Nope, I was watching the pitch by pitch on ESPN. He only threw 89 for the game. He had thrown 90 or more pitches in each of his 4 starts this season; reaching 107 in one game. No starting experience before this season? He started 24 games in Pensacola last year.

You're saying 75-80 pitches only to justify your argument; there is no reason a MLB starting pitcher should be held to that low of a pitch count unless he's coming back from injury or had actually not built up to that heavy of a work load in the spring. And our bullpen is not to be trusted. Tonight is yet another example against the worst offense in all of baseball. They're bad, a couple decent outings doesn't change that. Let's see what they can do over the course of a month.
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You win on the # pitches in that game. I must have been thinking of a different game before it.

He's averaged a little over 5 innings per game he has started. Opposing BA is .273 and his ERA is over 5. So, like you show Price is doing, go ahead and leave him in for 100 pitches a game, while your offense is averaging less than 4 runs per game (195/50). That makes sense. My point is they are having to go get him when he blows up instead of phasing his usage (pitch count) in over the course of the season. He is effective for about 4-5 innings currently. With him that is the 75-80 pitches amount. Not an attempt at an argument justification. Pensacola starts are a stretch in your argument there. His pitch count was limited greatly in AA ball last season. That did not prepare him for 100+ in MLB. Before that in Cuba he was a reliever.

Definitely bottom tier offense that probably just got worse with Byrd going down. That is unless anybody believes Negron, Boesch and Skippy can do better.
 
#11,338
#11,338
We're not discussing Iglesias, we're talking about Lorenzen. Look at where I quoted you and bolded the comment about Lorenzen. Fwiw, his BA against is only .217 and his ERA is 3.06.

You're probably right about the offense. Losing Byrd is probably going to hurt some. Bruce & Hamilton have picked it up a little bit over the last few weeks. Votto, BP and Frazier have been good. Cozart & Pena have been decent. Team AVG, OPS and wOBA are all top 10 in MLB over the last 30 days, but 26th in runs scored. They are awful with RISP this year. There, I set it on the tee for you to go off on "key hitting" again....
 
#11,339
#11,339
Leake pitches the game of his life and we end up squandering a 4-0 lead in the 9th to lose in extras. If it's not one thing it's another, so awful.
 
#11,340
#11,340
Appalachiamuck said:
We're not discussing Iglesias, we're talking about Lorenzen. Look at where I quoted you and bolded the comment about Lorenzen. Fwiw, his BA against is only .217 and his ERA is 3.06.

You're probably right about the offense. Losing Byrd is probably going to hurt some. Bruce & Hamilton have picked it up a little bit over the last few weeks. Votto, BP and Frazier have been good. Cozart & Pena have been decent. Team AVG, OPS and wOBA are all top 10 in MLB over the last 30 days, but 26th in runs scored. They are awful with RISP this year. There, I set it on the tee for you to go off on "key hitting" again....
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No problem, bud. My brain was on Iglesias. Sorry for the confusion. I think Lorenzen is the real deal, ready to go and wanted him up with the club after ST. He has ace talent if he is developed well. Not sold on Iglesias yet as a SP. He may get there, but he has a lot of work ahead of him.

Nah, not going to harp on RISP, you know it already. They are what they are. IMO RISP is a good measure of the gut and willingness to battle a pitcher. JV and BP have that of late. I love the way JV rarely leaves the box now and stays in his stance just daring the pitcher to go ahead and bring it. The last couple of years he had not done that. Cozart has done well at times. Billy is starting to see the ball better if he will be more patient. Todd seems to have hit a rough patch of late. He's going for the HR too much and has let some good pitches go for strikes that have bit him in the tail. But overall this club lost the killer instinct last season and has been unable to regain it.
 
#11,341
#11,341
Appalachiamuck said:
Leake pitches the game of his life and we end up squandering a 4-0 lead in the 9th to lose in extras. If it's not one thing it's another, so awful.
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Man, that was a beautiful game by Mike.

Points out the flaw in how Price approaches closing out a game IMO. I have no issues with him giving Leake a shot at the CG. But, it was clear with the first couple of batters Chappy did not have it. His pitches were everywhere - high, low, in, out - no control. Yank him. Sparky or Lou P sure would have. Go situational match-up at least by the time Franco comes up and bring in Hoover for him. Price just has a thing that Chappy is the 9th - period - live or die. That has worked a lot, but Chappy has been inconsistent during the last couple of weeks.
 
#11,342
#11,342
He is arguably the most dominant closer in the game, I don't think you shy away from him just because he's been a little inconsistent over a very short period of time. You live and die with him, imo.

Tonights game - DeSclafani comes back in the bottom of the 8th having thrown 89 pitches. Gets in trouble with the first 2 batters. That has been a common theme of late. I think Price is correct to send these guys out there when their pitch count is borderline but maybe have the pen warmed up and yank 'em if the leadoff gets on; even with a 4 run lead. I dunno, not sure what the right move is there.
 
#11,343
#11,343
Appalachiamuck said:
He is arguably the most dominant closer in the game, I don't think you shy away from him just because he's been a little inconsistent over a very short period of time. You live and die with him, imo.

Tonights game - DeSclafani comes back in the bottom of the 8th having thrown 89 pitches. Gets in trouble with the first 2 batters. That has been a common theme of late. I think Price is correct to send these guys out there when their pitch count is borderline but maybe have the pen warmed up and yank 'em if the leadoff gets on; even with a 4 run lead. I dunno, not sure what the right move is there.
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On Chapman - that's a philosophy of a lot of managers. Not really an issue to me except that it ignores shorter term trends in performance so no adjustments are made. On the bolded area - that's the problem. None of us do including Price. Just know it sucks.

Like today. He's used Parra a lot as a one batter specialist over the past few seasons. Parra is much better this season as he is healthy. Bases loaded, two outs, LH hitter in Alonso. He brings in Cingrani. Boom - game tied. I agree I think he waits too long to go yank them. Like today with Diaz. He waits until he loads the bases because Diaz is a RH facing a RH batter when there were only guys on first and second. Not thinking that Diaz gave up a double to lead off the inning, got 2 SOs and then starts getting wild again with a walk. So he leaves him in to get another walk. Send in Hoover or Badenflop - somebody - to try to get the last out before you have the tying run at the plate. It's not like they have a shortage of pitchers with 13 of them. Frustrating. It looks like a 60-70 win season so far.
 
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#11,344
#11,344
Good draft for position players with Stephenson at catcher and Trahan at SS. Trahan is better than a 3rd rounder IMO. Watched him play against LSU and he's got it to make the bigs. Stephenson was an excellent pick in the first. Big, athletic kid with power and a gun for an arm. Kind of proud of the FO for not screwing two of the top picks up. Have no idea on the pitchers - bunch of right handers that may or may not work out.
 
#11,348
#11,348
cozart appeared to blow his knee out today. pretty soon half the club will be on the DL. time to start the fire sale before anybody else gets hurt.
 
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