I am an anarchist - ask me anything.

#376
#376
hog88 said:
WTH? What will be used for tender, what will I have to carry to the grocery store to buy my food? Something Wal-Mart prints? It's a legitimate question.

Either you use precious metals or a barter system in the absence of a government backed currency.

As for your protection agencies, we've been over this BS. The biggest and most ruthless win.
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I think it's clear I'm not an anarchist, but currency is not the right argument to argue against anarchy. Bartering could take the place of currency. Currency is just a middle-man between bartering anyway.

But look at our current, dollar-based currency and economy. Its fiat. It's a shell-game, confidence-game. Bartering is a much more real currency than the one we have. Literally.

If I have an excess of tomatoes, and you make shoes. You and I can barter and haggle until we find the medium where your shoes are more valuable to me than my tomatoes, and vice versa. It's real. It's interactive. And it's not a figment of the imagination claiming to be worth more than it actually is.

The problem is, bartering is hard to tax. So, we have empty dollars.
 
#377
#377
n_huffhines said:
The best currency will be the most used one. Whether that's precious metals, bills backed by precious metals, bitcoin, or something else, people will use whatever works best.
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It would be precious metals/diamonds then. Or hell since there would be virtually no trade and we'd be essentially in the stone age salt may be an option.
 
#378
#378
iVol4Life said:
I am both anti-oppression and socialist, just by nature of what left anarchism entails. I'm admittedly not very familiar with anarcho-capitalism or other right anarchists.
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Cannot coexist. Google USSR
 
#380
#380
Orange_Crush said:
I think it's clear I'm not an anarchist, but currency is not the right argument to argue against anarchy. Bartering could take the place of currency. Currency is just a middle-man between bartering anyway.

But look at our current, dollar-based currency and economy. Its fiat. It's a shell-game, confidence-game. Bartering is a much more real currency than the one we have. Literally.

If I have an excess of tomatoes, and you make shoes. You and I can barter and haggle until we find the medium where your shoes are more valuable to me than my tomatoes, and vice versa. It's real. It's interactive. And it's not a figment of the imagination claiming to be worth more than it actually is.

The problem is, bartering is hard to tax. So, we have empty dollars.
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You are correct, a barter or precious metals system can work. It would slow down commerce to a standstill.

Once we left the gold standard paper money is just that, paper.
 
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#382
#382
Orange_Crush said:
Actually, fairly anarchistic, communal, self-sufficient communities have been implemented and have survived and prospered. Anarchy/communal communities can do very well on a very small scale, with the overseeing protection of a law-giving government. The problem anarchists have is that anarchy can never hold its own when it the is 'law' of the land.



I can see both sides of it. Our gov't is crooked. It's a necessary evil.
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to the first paragraph, yeah sure a small commune might survive, when protected by the government. irony abounds in that. and i would argue in those cases that they do work it is not from a lack of oversite but rather them working within a very confined system. and the system works as long as there are no major problems. we (humans) banded together to form the first governments to solve problems we couldn't handle on our own. same thing here with the anarchists.

agree on the last part. we need to heavily redo our government. i just don't see how the anarchy works on a state or national level.
 
#383
#383
Orange_Crush said:
I think it's clear I'm not an anarchist, but currency is not the right argument to argue against anarchy. Bartering could take the place of currency. Currency is just a middle-man between bartering anyway.

But look at our current, dollar-based currency and economy. Its fiat. It's a shell-game, confidence-game. Bartering is a much more real currency than the one we have. Literally.

If I have an excess of tomatoes, and you make shoes. You and I can barter and haggle until we find the medium where your shoes are more valuable to me than my tomatoes, and vice versa. It's real. It's interactive. And it's not a figment of the imagination claiming to be worth more than it actually is.

The problem is, bartering is hard to tax. So, we have empty dollars.
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you grow tomatoes and i make a complex widget that you need for whatever. what do i need ten thousand tomatoes for? that you probably don't have in the first place. am i supposed to take your tomatoes and then start bartering those to others, i thought i sold widgets. currency came up because bartering was too labor intensive and slow and was completely based on a relative system. in our neck of the woods your tomatoes might be worth nothing but over across the river they are worth a lot more, so i can just say it will be ten thousand tomatoes to everyone that comes in. again there is a reason we have the current systems, what we have done with those systems is complete crap but its no one's fault but our own.
 
#384
#384
^^Could you imagine having to ship a million tomatoes to China for a few TVs? What would that end up costing?
 
#386
#386
iVol4Life said:
No, they continually exploited others for their labor. It may have been difficult to build up that business, but ultimately, the vast majority of the labor was done by those at the bottom.
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Didn't read much of this thread. However, I can state as fact that my dad and uncle both worked at one point 13-17 hours a day, 7 days a week, for their companies.

After about 5 years they were making enough to hire people. Now they don't do much work, but they put in a lot more work in those 5 years than most of their workers will in 15.
 
#392
#392
n_huffhines said:
The best currency will be the most used one. Whether that's precious metals, bills backed by precious metals, bitcoin, or something else, people will use whatever works best.
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The business end of a pistol will work pretty good. :p
 
#393
#393
hog88 said:
Lack of any stability. Pockets of fiefdoms don't work well together.
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or that fact that you have to face to face to barter. goodbye amazon. good thing we aren't limited in our new anarchistic world.
 
#398
#398
hog88 said:
I can at least hold a dollar. Power goes out with bitcoins and you broke as a joke.
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I can take your money at gun point. E-currency has the potential for `100% transparency, so you can't steal it.
 
#399
#399
n_huffhines said:
This doesn't explain why we would choose to use salt as currency.

At this point you're just babbling.
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All you and anarchy supporters have done is babble. You have yet to shoot down any opposing points or show 1 example of an anarchy system working in history.
 
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